Clause 36. Mr. Ramsay.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want to comment, if I could, on the suspending of driver’s licences for individuals who are in default of maintenance payments. The bill will pass, and it’ll go ahead, but I wanted to get my comments on record anyway. I do believe that even though individuals owe maintenance payments we shouldn’t be so heavy-handed as to suspend a driver’s licence, especially when in some cases that parent has access to their children and needs to pick them up, drive them to soccer, drive them to hockey, and it’s 40 below zero outside.
If somebody’s fallen on hard times, I think we’re limiting a person’s ability and access to their children, and to me that’s wrong. I would never as a legislator get in the way of a parent spending time with their children, whether the parent is in default on maintenance or not. The time they spend with their children: you cannot put a price on that. It’s time that’s lost. Once it’s gone, it’s lost. If we’re taking away a person’s driver’s licence, we’re taking away their ability to get their kids, to pick up their kids, to spend time with their kids. We’re impacting the person’s quality of life. To me that’s not fair and it’s not just.
Again, I’m not sure how other Members feel about this, but I do feel strongly about taking away somebody’s driver’s licence. I’m glad to see the provisions are spoken to and that for work and for medical reasons a person can drive a vehicle. But we also should include provisions to pick up their children, to take them to sports or a play or school, and to spend time with them. That needs to be in there as well, and if it’s not we’re doing society a disservice.
Minister of Justice.
Mahsi, Mr. Chair. That was part of the discussion we had with the committee members on the Social Programs Committee. There was some discussion on that particular item. Again, it comes down to an individual’s responsibility. They have kids, and they have kids in sports. If they paid their maintenance enforcement, it wouldn’t be an issue. At the same time, that’s what it comes down to: an individual has the responsibility to resolve this issue. There was some lengthy discussion in this particular area by the committee, and we did recognize it. At the same time, we are moving forward with this.
We have to compare it to other jurisdictions as well. It’s not just us. We are different from other jurisdictions, but we are trying to be in line with other jurisdictions as well.
There are individuals out there, as I said earlier, who are not paying for various reasons. Some do get away with it. This is one way of giving some tools to our enforcement officers to put a stop to it and start obtaining payments where they’re needed for the children. That’s one area we focus on.
Maybe I can have Ms. Shaner elaborate a bit on that as well. Mahsi.
Ms. Shaner.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As the Minister pointed out, it is reported by other jurisdictions that this is the single most effective enforcement tool that is available to them.
I should also point out that this is not something that would be imposed early on in the enforcement process. We do use a progression model. In this case the debtor would have to reach a certain threshold in terms of either the amount of arrears or the time that has passed without payment. That is going to be set by regulation. As I recall, what we are looking at is an amount of three months of arrears or $3,000, whichever occurs first.
I thank the Minister and Ms. Shaner for their comments as well. I agree with the Minister: people should be paying their maintenance enforcement. That to me is fundamental. And you’ll see that the statistics, again, don’t lie. People who pay their maintenance enforcement can pay their maintenance enforcement. The people who aren’t paying the maintenance enforcement are the people who aren’t making enough money. If they pay the maintenance enforcement, they don’t have enough money to live. They don’t have enough money to pay their rent, to put oil in their fuel tank, to put gas in their tank.
In all of this we have to be fair to the one parent receiving the maintenance support. We also have to be fair to the individual paying it. And in most cases they don’t pay it because they can’t. It’s almost impossible for them to pay it. I’d like to see something to the effect that you take into consideration, as well, the right of the person paying it and ensure that they have enough money to at least put a roof over their head and food on their table. If the maintenance payments are impacting them to the degree that they can’t live — that they can’t sustain themselves — then that’s something else entirely, and we need to look at that.
I think there are a number of people out there, Mr. Chairman, who find themselves getting behind in maintenance enforcement payments. One thing leads to another, and it just drives them right into the ground. I don’t know if we should be doing that to people. Again, the bottom line is that you should be paying your maintenance enforcement. That’s the bottom line; I agree with you on that. But I also agree that we need to be protecting everybody in this and respecting the rights of everybody involved. Whether this is doing that or not, I don’t know. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
More of a comment. Mr. Minister, if you want to respond, go ahead.
Mahsi, Mr. Chair. As Ms. Shaner already elaborated, where individuals are on EI, there are set standards of payments. Another avenue is, of course, to go back to court and revise payments if they’re not working. Those are avenues that they can certainly turn to. Mahsi.
Clause 36.
Clauses 36 through 38 inclusive approved.
To the bill as a whole.
Bill 5 as a whole approved.
Does committee agree that Bill 5 is ready for third reading?
Bill 5, An Act to Amend the Maintenance Orders Enforcement Act, approved for third reading.
With that, I would like to thank the Minister and thank the witnesses. Sergeant-at-Arms, would you escort the witnesses out?
What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Ramsay.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move to report progress.
May I have the report of Committee of the Whole, please.
Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Bill 18, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 2008–2009; Bill 12, An Act to Amend the Human Rights Act; and Bill 5, An Act to Amend the Maintenance Orders Enforcement Act. I would like to report progress and that Bills 18, 12, and 5 are ready for third reading.
Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of the Committee of the Whole be concurred with.
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. We have a motion. Do we have a seconder? The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.
Motion carried.
Mr. Speaker, there will be a meeting of the Priorities and Planning committee at 4:45 p.m.
Orders of the Day for Thursday, June 19, 2008:
Prayer
Ministers’ Statements
Members’ Statements
Reports of Standing and Special Committees
Returns to Oral Questions
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Acknowledgements
Oral Questions
Written Questions
Returns to Written Questions
Replies to Opening Address
Petitions
Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills
Tabling of Documents
Notices of Motion
Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills
Motions
Motion 12-16(2): Support for the Business Incentive Policy (Hawkins)
Motion 13-16(2): Support for Changes to Federal Divorce Act (Ramsay)
Motion 14-16(2): Extended Adjournment of the House to October 1, 2008 (Bisaro)
First Reading of Bills
Second Reading of Bills
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Bill 6 : An Act to Amend the Residential Tenancies Act
CR 2-16(2): Standing Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of the Report of the Auditor General on the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation Public Housing and Homeownership Programs
CR 3-16(2): Standing Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of the 2006–2007 Annual Report of the Languages Commissioner
MS 62-16(2): Government of Canada Residential Schools Apology
Report of Committee of the Whole
Third Reading of Bills
Bill 5: An Act to Amend the Maintenance Orders Enforcement Act
Bill 12: An Act to Amend the Human Rights Act
Bill 18 : Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 2008–2009
Orders of the Day
Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Accordingly, this House stands adjourned until Thursday, June 19, 2008, at 1:30 p.m.
The House adjourned at 4:42 p.m.
