Debates of May 31, 2005 (day 5)

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak. I’m sorry, for who? Okay. Minister of Environment and Natural Resources, Mr. Miltenberger.

Return To Question 57-15(4): Drafting Legislation On The Species At Risk Act

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, first I’d like to acknowledge the key role the Member for Nunakput played in helping orchestrate this meeting where we had an opportunity, myself and Minister Bell as the Minister of Justice, to sit down with the people that my colleague mentioned to talk about the Species at Risk Act and the Wildlife Act.

I followed up on that meeting with a letter on May 18th to all of the involved parties. In that letter, I committed to three things. We committed to setting up a meeting in June, hopefully early June, but it looks like we might slip it into later June. We’re going to move on the request for a collaborative drafting process that allows input from all the parties and then we’ll prepare draft discussion documents for the meeting on the collaborative process and the proposed timelines for completing the work. Madam Speaker, that was sent out May 18th.

This morning at 8:00 we had a meeting, myself once again with some of the Environment and Natural Resources staff, the deputy, as well as the Minister of Justice and his people to talk about the collaborative process and the need to nail down the date in June to come to the table. During that meeting, we also received a document from the Wildlife Management Advisory Council where they had a draft memorandum that they thought would address some of the issues in terms of what a collaborative process could look like. So we’ve taken that document, as well, and we’re reviewing it with Environment and Natural Resources and Justice is reviewing it with their staff. We intend to follow up very quickly to what they’ve proposed along with whatever suggestions we may have in addition to that. We are still committed to the June meeting and, if the Member will recollect, we’re also committed to a very aggressive timeline to try to have a draft bill or a bill ready for first reading in this House in the fall session. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Supplementary, Mr. Pokiak.

Supplementary To Question 57-15(4): Drafting Legislation On The Species At Risk Act

Thank you, Madam Speaker. That’s a lot of information in such a short time, since the meeting in April anyway. Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. We’re talking about mid-June now. Has there been any contact with the other claimant groups with regard to how soon -- maybe I didn’t understand -- but how soon the collaboration with them for the drafting of the act will take place? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak. Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 57-15(4): Drafting Legislation On The Species At Risk Act

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, the way I envision this process unfolding, and I think based on the discussions we’ve had, would be the meeting we would have in June will allow the leadership to get together with some technical support people to discuss the details of the collaborative process and the time frames and those specific issues, and possibly sign off a memorandum of agreement or understanding on how we’re going to proceed. At that point, the technical people and program people can start the process of moving on the Species at Risk Act, which it is my understanding has a considerable amount of work already done. Hopefully that work will be reviewed and approved and then we can move on to complete what’s left to be done with a timeline to have a bill for first reading in the fall session. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Supplementary, Mr. Pokiak.

Supplementary To Question 57-15(4): Drafting Legislation On The Species At Risk Act

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I think my next question is, if I understand correctly, was there a first draft of the legislative act before? Are there any flaws with it that the aboriginal groups didn’t want to push forward with? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak. Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 57-15(4): Drafting Legislation On The Species At Risk Act

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, there was an initial draft done some time ago on the Species at Risk Act, but once the issue of the collaborative process came up, it put a basic stop to any further kind of collaborative work. Then there was an election and new Cabinet and splitting of departments, all of which took time. We are now ready to move on this. In the interim, as well, the department has been putting its best efforts to work along with Justice to flush out what would be the content of the bill, but there have been no other drafts circulated other than that one. Once we have this meeting on the collaborative process and hopefully reach an agreement, then that work will all be put on the table as is outlined in this letter and we can move forward from there to get a draft bill or a bill completed. Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I would like to readdress my questions to the Minister of Health and Social Services with regard to the proposed transfer. Madam Speaker, I must say I’m not impressed with the Minister somehow implying that the debate here is about Yellowknife versus Hay River and that any time we are questioning anything about this move that somehow…I don’t think the competition is that. Madam Speaker, I believe that the Cabinet, every Member of government sitting across from us, has a duty to the children if they don’t have a duty to the Members here or the employees who are working there or even the interested public. I like to know that I have enough information that shows me that the Cabinet Ministers have looked at all the necessary information, or at least adequate levels of information, when they made this decision; that they did not do it as a political move, as if these youth are empty vessels of chess pieces sitting on a board. They have lives with needs and those should have been looked at. So I’d like to know what exact information does he have about what these students’ special needs are. What information can he give us? What information did he base his decision on? He hasn’t given us any of that. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. The question of the basis for the Minister’s decision has been brought up now quite a number of times. I will refer the question to the Minister, but that question of basis and the information that’s coming has probably been visited about eight to 10 times now over the last couple of days. I’ll let Mr. Miltenberger answer that, but I’d just ask Members if they can think of something original. Mr. Miltenberger.

Return To Question 58-15(4): Proposed Move Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, like the Members opposite, the Members on this side of the House are very concerned about the wellbeing of children. We’re all parents or grandparents or both and we’re very concerned about that. We’ve looked at this situation carefully. We looked at all aspects of it, in my opinion, and we’ve made a considered decision based on that.

Madam Speaker, I want to reiterate again that Hay River has the capacity to house this program. The contractor is going to set up the program in Hay River. We’re not dismantling anything. We’re just changing the location of where the program is delivered. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 58-15(4): Proposed Move Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My apologies for repeating what seemed like the same question and perhaps lacking originality, but sometimes there is a need for that in this House and you have demonstrated that very well in the last session when we were talking about issues that were pertaining to other matters.

I’d like to ask the Minister, with all due respect, the Minister is not the expert on programming and neither is anybody around this table. I’d like to know, and I’d like to be assured, and I think I have the right to know on behalf of those children who are going to be affected that those decision-makers who are sitting here have had a look at it. I’d like to know, and going by the experts, the people in the field developing the program have not been consulted with, so I have no evidence to suggest to me that the Minister and the government had any information. So I’d like to know how does he have any inkling of what he knows about what the kids need and how is he sure those programs are available in Hay River if he doesn’t know what they are? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Thank you, Ms. Lee, and thank you for your observations on my comments about the originality of the questions, but please don’t challenge it. It was a simple observation that that same question specific to the basis of the decision had been posed several times. So thank you for your observations, but it’s not really appropriate. Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 58-15(4): Proposed Move Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, there should be in the Members’ in-trays, a copy of a message I received from Dr. Gus Rozycki who runs Bosco Homes indicating their support and willingness to work with us in this transfer and their support for the decision to in fact do that. Dr. Rozycki is the head of Bosco Homes. He’s very qualified in this area. He has a long history. He has very many good staff who he has access to not only in the North, but in Edmonton and other jurisdictions that they bring to bear on the children in care.

I, as well, have some background of my own working with children in care, running facilities. I know the program in Fort Smith which was there probably longest of all, and then there was Territorial Treatment Centre that was set up and I have some experience in terms of what children’s needs are in these facilities. I also know that Cabinet has looked at this very carefully. So, Madam Speaker, I believe we’ve made a careful, reasoned decision and we’re going to take the steps to follow through due process to carry it out. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 58-15(4): Proposed Move Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I thought we weren’t allowed to talk about a document that’s not before this House. Considering that, I’d like to still ask the Minister, I need to know simple answers about what the Minister has done to find out exactly what the needs are of the services that they are getting in Yellowknife. And you know what? If I’m convinced, if I’m provided with the information that these are the kinds of conditions and training that they need and this is the kind of support system they have and we have, as a government, made a decision, a public policy decision, that the government is entitled to do, I have no problem with that. Give us the information. To be quoting an e-mail that’s not even before the House is not adequate, Madam Speaker. I believe the public has a right know. Did Mr. Gus or somebody, whoever the Minister is mentioning, do an assessment in Hay River? Where is the information that he’s saying that this is all hunky-dory fine and that we’re just making a big deal out of nothing? Is that what the Minister is suggesting? Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 58-15(4): Proposed Move Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, in fact it’s Dr. Gus Rozycki and the Member asked me what experts we’d discussed this with and who had we talked to. We’ve had discussions and I’ve personally met with Dr. Rozycki as well as Mr. Bowerman, as has the deputy and the staff of the department. We’ve had the discussion with the service provider who, in our opinion, is eminently qualified to deliver the service and they’ve indicated to us that they are prepared and willing to work with us to relocate the program to Hay River and deliver that same program in Hay River. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Final supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 58-15(4): Proposed Move Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. With all due respect, I believe the gentleman he’s talking about is a person in charge of this program who resides in Edmonton, who knows that this is a program that their company is administering, but he’s not one of the people who are delivering programs to these kids, whether in school, whether in audio therapy, in speech therapy, whatever medical and social services they use. I’d like to know, yes or no, has the Minister or his department talked to any of these experts and any of these professionals who constantly work with these youth to incorporate them into mainstream society? Has the Minister or his department talked to any of them? If not, why not and when would he do that so maybe we could get some information? Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 58-15(4): Proposed Move Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, Dr. Rozycki is an eminent practitioner as well as the head of Bosco Homes and he has extensive experience in delivering this type of program. He’s very capable and qualified, as are his staff. This is a program decision, public policy decision, as the Member indicated, and it’s a case of can a program be moved and operated and relocated and operated in the same structure that it currently has. In our opinion, it can be, yes.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. The time for oral questions has expired. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I seek unanimous consent to go back to item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I’d like to recognize Shona Barbour who is originally from Tsiigehtchic, but she’s abandoned us and is now in Inuvik. Shona is here in Yellowknife as part of the NWT Scott women’s team from the Northwest Territories and they received the NWT Team of the Year Award. Welcome, Shona.

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Also, I’d like to recognize the former Sergeant-at-Arms in the House, Nicole. Welcome back.

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Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I, too, would like to recognize the former Sergeant-at-Arms of this House, Ms. Nicole Latour-Thede, who is also a constituent of mine. Welcome, Nicole.

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Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 7, written questions. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I’d like to seek unanimous consent to return to item 6, oral questions.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is to the NWT Housing Corporation in terms of the professional housing situation in the Sahtu. I understand there might be some movement in terms of retaining some of our professional people in the Sahtu. Also, the issue of housing is still an issue that I’d like to pursue with the Minister. Is the Housing Corporation doing all it can to retain or attract professional people in our regions in terms of the education field or the health field? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The honourable Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, Mr. Krutko.

Return To Question 59-15(4): Market Housing Initiative

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, we are working with the Department of Education, Culture and Employment in trying to ensure we are able to track professionals and keep them in our communities by the market housing initiative that is out there. Again, this year we will be putting more units in Deline and Norman Wells. Because Deline is going to have to be delivered over the winter road, they won’t be available until next spring. We’re hoping to have the units in Norman Wells in place by this fall. It is in place. We are continuing to deliver the market housing initiative in the Sahtu region in those two communities, Deline and Norman Wells, this year. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Supplementary To Question 59-15(4): Market Housing Initiative

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Regarding the market housing initiative, several complaints came from the teachers about the high cost of renting these market housing units and the other expenses to operate these units. Is there any movement on behalf of the department to revisit the rents they have on these units in the region? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Krutko.

Further Return To Question 59-15(4): Market Housing Initiative

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, we have learned from our experience in the last couple of years through the market housing initiative. We are looking at redesigning the newer models with regard to having a duplex layout, so the cost will come down. I think we are looking at somewhere in the range of $850 to $1,000 and that includes utilities. Because we are able to bring down the cost of the units themselves because the individuals want to be able to buy units outright, now we are able to deliver these units at a lower cost than we were able to deliver the first phase for. By making these changes and working out the kinks in the first phase, we are able to bring down the cost, so it is more affordable and people can purchase them at a more affordable price. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Supplementary To Question 59-15(4): Market Housing Initiative

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Thank you, Mr. Minister. That’s good news with regard to retaining the professional people in the Sahtu. Has the Minister’s department looked at giving some consideration to some organizations in the Sahtu to build affordable units for the professionals in terms of the programs that they can offer to these organizations that would attract professionals? Some of the health workers are unable to come into the Sahtu because some houses are not available. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Krutko.

Further Return To Question 59-15(4): Market Housing Initiative

Thank you, Madam Speaker. We are in discussion with the Ernie MacDonald Land Corporation in Norman Wells. We realize there is a possibility of a market in Norman Wells with the hospital establishing a Sahtu health board. There will be a need for more units than we can offer. So we are in discussion with the people from Norman Wells to look at a partnership, so they can get into the market housing initiative themselves. We would have someone take over that program and run with it. So we are in deliberations with people from Norman Wells, the Metis Development Corporation there. We are in those discussions right now, so we are still working with them to see if there is a way we can work out an arrangement that is satisfactory to both parties. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Krutko. Final supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Supplementary To Question 59-15(4): Market Housing Initiative

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Can the Minister inform the people in the Sahtu about the other communities? Some teachers are having a hard time getting into units. Maybe other organizations in the Sahtu as well could enter into some sort of discussion or have a meeting with the Housing Corporation to look at providing some affordable units within the Sahtu.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 59-15(4): Market Housing Initiative

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, like I stated, we are open to arrangements. But because of the initiative we have, which is to bring affordable housing into communities for professionals, to ensure they are able to acquire housing where there is no staff housing and most of the houses in our communities are public housing, we are looking at improving the number of houses in those communities. But more importantly, we are meeting the needs of our professionals.

Again, because of the efforts by The Department of Education and also Health and Social Services, they have worked with us to lobby the different agencies to make them aware there are programs there and also working with the communities and different corporations out there to get them involved. In order to make sure this program is successful, we have to build partnerships and move forward. So we are open to that and we are working together. I believe we will definitely be able to deliver housing to our professionals and keep them in our communities. Thank you.