Debates of May 31, 2005 (day 5)

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I would like to readdress my questions to the Minister of Health and Social Services with regard to the proposed transfer. Madam Speaker, I must say I’m not impressed with the Minister somehow implying that the debate here is about Yellowknife versus Hay River and that any time we are questioning anything about this move that somehow…I don’t think the competition is that. Madam Speaker, I believe that the Cabinet, every Member of government sitting across from us, has a duty to the children if they don’t have a duty to the Members here or the employees who are working there or even the interested public. I like to know that I have enough information that shows me that the Cabinet Ministers have looked at all the necessary information, or at least adequate levels of information, when they made this decision; that they did not do it as a political move, as if these youth are empty vessels of chess pieces sitting on a board. They have lives with needs and those should have been looked at. So I’d like to know what exact information does he have about what these students’ special needs are. What information can he give us? What information did he base his decision on? He hasn’t given us any of that. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. The question of the basis for the Minister’s decision has been brought up now quite a number of times. I will refer the question to the Minister, but that question of basis and the information that’s coming has probably been visited about eight to 10 times now over the last couple of days. I’ll let Mr. Miltenberger answer that, but I’d just ask Members if they can think of something original. Mr. Miltenberger.

Return To Question 58-15(4): Proposed Move Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, like the Members opposite, the Members on this side of the House are very concerned about the wellbeing of children. We’re all parents or grandparents or both and we’re very concerned about that. We’ve looked at this situation carefully. We looked at all aspects of it, in my opinion, and we’ve made a considered decision based on that.

Madam Speaker, I want to reiterate again that Hay River has the capacity to house this program. The contractor is going to set up the program in Hay River. We’re not dismantling anything. We’re just changing the location of where the program is delivered. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 58-15(4): Proposed Move Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My apologies for repeating what seemed like the same question and perhaps lacking originality, but sometimes there is a need for that in this House and you have demonstrated that very well in the last session when we were talking about issues that were pertaining to other matters.

I’d like to ask the Minister, with all due respect, the Minister is not the expert on programming and neither is anybody around this table. I’d like to know, and I’d like to be assured, and I think I have the right to know on behalf of those children who are going to be affected that those decision-makers who are sitting here have had a look at it. I’d like to know, and going by the experts, the people in the field developing the program have not been consulted with, so I have no evidence to suggest to me that the Minister and the government had any information. So I’d like to know how does he have any inkling of what he knows about what the kids need and how is he sure those programs are available in Hay River if he doesn’t know what they are? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Thank you, Ms. Lee, and thank you for your observations on my comments about the originality of the questions, but please don’t challenge it. It was a simple observation that that same question specific to the basis of the decision had been posed several times. So thank you for your observations, but it’s not really appropriate. Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 58-15(4): Proposed Move Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, there should be in the Members’ in-trays, a copy of a message I received from Dr. Gus Rozycki who runs Bosco Homes indicating their support and willingness to work with us in this transfer and their support for the decision to in fact do that. Dr. Rozycki is the head of Bosco Homes. He’s very qualified in this area. He has a long history. He has very many good staff who he has access to not only in the North, but in Edmonton and other jurisdictions that they bring to bear on the children in care.

I, as well, have some background of my own working with children in care, running facilities. I know the program in Fort Smith which was there probably longest of all, and then there was Territorial Treatment Centre that was set up and I have some experience in terms of what children’s needs are in these facilities. I also know that Cabinet has looked at this very carefully. So, Madam Speaker, I believe we’ve made a careful, reasoned decision and we’re going to take the steps to follow through due process to carry it out. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 58-15(4): Proposed Move Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I thought we weren’t allowed to talk about a document that’s not before this House. Considering that, I’d like to still ask the Minister, I need to know simple answers about what the Minister has done to find out exactly what the needs are of the services that they are getting in Yellowknife. And you know what? If I’m convinced, if I’m provided with the information that these are the kinds of conditions and training that they need and this is the kind of support system they have and we have, as a government, made a decision, a public policy decision, that the government is entitled to do, I have no problem with that. Give us the information. To be quoting an e-mail that’s not even before the House is not adequate, Madam Speaker. I believe the public has a right know. Did Mr. Gus or somebody, whoever the Minister is mentioning, do an assessment in Hay River? Where is the information that he’s saying that this is all hunky-dory fine and that we’re just making a big deal out of nothing? Is that what the Minister is suggesting? Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 58-15(4): Proposed Move Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, in fact it’s Dr. Gus Rozycki and the Member asked me what experts we’d discussed this with and who had we talked to. We’ve had discussions and I’ve personally met with Dr. Rozycki as well as Mr. Bowerman, as has the deputy and the staff of the department. We’ve had the discussion with the service provider who, in our opinion, is eminently qualified to deliver the service and they’ve indicated to us that they are prepared and willing to work with us to relocate the program to Hay River and deliver that same program in Hay River. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Final supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 58-15(4): Proposed Move Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. With all due respect, I believe the gentleman he’s talking about is a person in charge of this program who resides in Edmonton, who knows that this is a program that their company is administering, but he’s not one of the people who are delivering programs to these kids, whether in school, whether in audio therapy, in speech therapy, whatever medical and social services they use. I’d like to know, yes or no, has the Minister or his department talked to any of these experts and any of these professionals who constantly work with these youth to incorporate them into mainstream society? Has the Minister or his department talked to any of them? If not, why not and when would he do that so maybe we could get some information? Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 58-15(4): Proposed Move Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, Dr. Rozycki is an eminent practitioner as well as the head of Bosco Homes and he has extensive experience in delivering this type of program. He’s very capable and qualified, as are his staff. This is a program decision, public policy decision, as the Member indicated, and it’s a case of can a program be moved and operated and relocated and operated in the same structure that it currently has. In our opinion, it can be, yes.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. The time for oral questions has expired. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I seek unanimous consent to go back to item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery.