Debates of August 15, 2007 (day 10)

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker…(English not provided)

Mr. Speaker, the original plan of the Gameti school extension involved the community, the elders, the youth; most importantly, the past elders and respected Tlicho leadership. The community leadership are begging to stick to the original plans. So, Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment. Mr. Speaker, will the Minister explain why his department is calling for a redesign of the school project in Gameti when the higher costs are due to the marketplace, not the school design? Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. The honourable Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 119-15(6): Gameti School Addition

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in the original budget for this project, Education, Culture and Employment had $2.8 million. In order to complete the project on the prices received, we would have had to seek an extra $3.8 million; so more than the actual cost in the budget. As Members in this House will know, it’s a challenge at any time to find additional money for projects and that project was, unfortunately, one of those ones that we couldn’t find the extra money for in this year’s plan. The problem we’re really facing, though, is that this project is coming in, Mr. Speaker, more than $2,000 a square metre higher than any of the other projects that we’re looking at in this current year in construction and we’re concerned that if we accept a bid at that price, it sets the standard for future ones and this government can’t afford to be building schools at that price. So we’re hoping that, although the Member doesn’t believe that we’ll find some savings, we’re hoping that a redesign might find some savings to bring the price down.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Lafferty.

Supplementary To Question 119-15(6): Gameti School Addition

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I’d like to focus on the need of the community; the community of Gameti. Mr. Speaker, will the Minister tell these Members here around the table why he and his department believe that the people of Gameti do not want the same educational and recreation programs for their children that he and other Yellowknife Members take for granted for their children here in Yellowknife and other major centres? Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 119-15(6): Gameti School Addition

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We are committed to making sure that we offer good educational programs in all communities in the Northwest Territories. This government, as the Premier noted in his sessional statement today, has a pretty good record in making sure that we are putting a lot of money into education. Mr. Speaker, we are, though, going to have to take a look at designs of all of our schools, given the prices that we’re seeing them come in at. I want to make it very clear, Mr. Speaker, that in communities across the Northwest Territories, very many communities, we are using portables to provide schooling and they are providing very adequate service. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Lafferty.

Supplementary To Question 119-15(6): Gameti School Addition

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the portable is just a quick fix-up and we certainly want a long-term solution here. Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister. Will the Minister tell the Members why extraordinary funding was found by this government to go ahead with the construction of the school in Tulita when the project was millions of dollars over budget and the Minister will not do the same for the Gameti school? Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 119-15(6): Gameti School Addition

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I said in the answer to the first question, there’s a difference of $2,000 a square metre between the project the Member just mentioned and the cost we’re being asked for the school in Gameti. We, at this point, are struggling with that difference and can’t understand why we’re being faced with that, and that’s one of the reasons we want to go back and ask Public Works to work with the architects to look at a redesign. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Final supplementary, Mr. Lafferty.

Supplementary To Question 119-15(6): Gameti School Addition

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my final question to the Minister, with respect, we have to respect our elders’ wish to have an addition to our school with a gymnasium for our children to have a healthy lifestyle and wellness in the community. So my final question to the Minister: Will the Minister do the right thing and add and support a third option to his briefing note where the GNWT will find the money to go forward with this project on this year’s winter road, 2007-08, and build the school addition and gymnasium as planned with the original plan? Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 119-15(6): Gameti School Addition

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, over the next period of time, I can commit to the Member and the residents of Gameti that this government will explore all options. If there is any way possible that we can meet the community’s desire and still get the construction done or the materials in over this year’s winter road, we will work to achieve that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to address some questions to the Premier in relation to the long sought agreements-in-principle on devolution and resource revenue sharing. Mr. Speaker, there has been tremendous sustained work through the spring and the summer, I know, to try to achieve something prior to the end of the life of this Assembly and this government, but we’re not there. However, the Prime Minister, on his rather casual swing through Yellowknife the other week, did offer a little bit of insight into the situation and he was quoted as saying we’re closer but not there yet, regarding the AIP negotiations. Mr. Speaker, could the Premier interpret the Prime Minister’s remarks for us and tell us what progress has been made and what remains yet to be finalized in our AIP negotiations?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. The honourable Premier, Mr. Handley.

Return To Question 120-15(6): Devolution And Resource Revenue Sharing Agreement

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, I can provide more detail. Mr. Speaker, as we’ve said before, there were six outstanding items between ourselves and the federal government and I won’t go through each of them, but I will say that there are only two that are still outstanding. One has to do with the issues around net fiscal benefit. The other one has to do with the amount of money that would be transferred when federal employees and services are transferred to GNWT.

Mr. Speaker, in the case of net fiscal benefit, we are not going to accept a bad deal. We’d sooner have no deal. The Prime Minister has committed that northerners must be the primary beneficiaries of resource development. We take him at his word on that and we have included, in the draft agreement-in-principle, those words. The negotiators didn’t want to have those words in. They wanted to leave us to negotiate a cap on our net fiscal benefit. That doesn’t make us very comfortable. I think we have made some progress in having their negotiator agree to put the words back into the agreement-in-principle, but the negotiator is briefing the responsible Minister I think this week, but possibly next week. That was one issue. We are not going to accept anything less than a good deal for the North.

Mr. Speaker, the second issue was around a base transfer. That one is a fairly small one to resolve, in my mind. It may need a political solution and I intend to try to achieve that with that situation. Mr. Speaker, that one, we’re only a few million dollars apart. The federal negotiators seem to believe that they have reached the maximum in their mandate and they’re asking to go back and talk with the Minister responsible.

So, Mr. Speaker, those are the two issues. A base transfer, the amount of money, which is not a huge amount in the bigger scale of things, and second is on net fiscal benefit where we’re not ready to accept a deal that puts a cap on what we will receive. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 120-15(6): Devolution And Resource Revenue Sharing Agreement

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A condition that has always been before us, and I referenced it in my statement, is that while I think it was in the words of Minister Nault, a former Minister of Northern Affairs, that we do not need to see absolutely all northern governments signing off on the agreement, but there needs to be a very strong majority of northern governments ready to participate in this kind of deal. Without, as we unfortunately experienced in May, without the Tlicho, the Akaitcho or the Dehcho on board, is it feasible that we will still see Canada signing off even though these three governments, at least to my knowledge, Mr. Speaker, have not indicated their willingness to join into this AIP, Mr. Speaker?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 120-15(6): Devolution And Resource Revenue Sharing Agreement

Mr. Speaker, the best of my knowledge in a negotiation and in any discussions, the fact that only four out of seven aboriginal organizations have signed on has never been an issue with the federal government. They have not raised that at all. They are satisfied with the four that we have been working with us. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 120-15(6): Devolution And Resource Revenue Sharing Agreement

Mr. Speaker, the timing of potentially achieving this deal, while we all, in this Assembly, certainly desire to be able to put this checkmark beside our performance and our legacy here, Mr. Speaker, the life of this Assembly technically and legally ends at the end of August. The government, of course through the Ministers, continue until the new government is signed on, probably sometime in mid-October. That leaves really only days in which an agreement may be finalized. Mr. Speaker, is it really appropriate? Is it really practical? Is it realistic? But the government is going to continue to pursue this AIP in the life of this Assembly, considering the extremely limited time that we have before the next Assembly would be coming on board.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 120-15(6): Devolution And Resource Revenue Sharing Agreement

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I was elected as Premier for the life of this government. This government is alive and working until the writ is dropped. Until that happens, then, yes, we will continue to pursue this negotiation. Now, Mr. Speaker, I might add that this is complicated a bit by the shuffle of Ministers in the federal system. Even as I speak today, I am not sure who is the lead Minister for the North, so there are some delays there. But, Mr. Speaker, we will continue to press on this. That is our job. We will do it for the life of this government. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Final supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 120-15(6): Devolution And Resource Revenue Sharing Agreement

The Premier has cast one other aspect to this relating to the uncertainty and the frustration of dealing with Canada when he had just indicated that while we have, for some 24 hours now, a new Minister, Mr. Chuck Strahl, I wish the new Minister luck. The Premier has indicated that he doesn’t know, as of today, who is the lead Minister for the North. This is a rather disturbing situation. Could the Premier outline what is the source of this confusion? If Mr. Strahl does not carry this mandate as the Minister of Northern Affairs, who does and under what authority? Just where does that place us in terms of knowing who is in charge, Mr. Speaker?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 120-15(6): Devolution And Resource Revenue Sharing Agreement

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Until l see the clarification on the roles, I will not make assumptions about who has what responsibility. Mr. Speaker, I am told that Minister Prentice, for example, is the lead Minister for the pipeline. That pipeline is in the North, so I don’t know what else may be in terms of division of responsibilities between these two Ministers, so I can’t make assumptions. But we will continue to work hard on trying to achieve an agreement-in-principle in the meantime. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent. It gets back to my Member’s statement from earlier in a topic that has been talked about in this House and in committee meetings for at least the past three years. It gets back to the transfer of the responsibility of the Social Housing Subsidy Program from the Housing Corporation to ECE. It was approximately nine and a half months ago the Regular Members on this side of the House passed a motion in this Assembly instructing the government to go back and take a look and take that program back from ECE and put it back in the Housing Corporation’s mandate, because Members were concerned and they were getting complaints from constituents that the delivery of the program wasn’t what it used to be. Here is a government that had a successful program under the Housing Corporation. They took $30 million right out of the Housing Corporation and put it into ECE and had to hire 14 people to deliver the same program that was being delivered the day before they did it for the $30 million. That has still not been fully explained to me.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to start off by asking the Minister what exactly has happened since that motion was passed with ECE to try to address the concerns that were outlined in that motion? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 121-15(6): Administration Of Social Housing Subsidy Program

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Since that time, the Housing Corporation and Education, Culture and Employment senior staff have gotten together to ensure that there is a working group that deals with issues and complaints. The Minister of the Housing Corporation and myself meet regularly to review whether there are issues. We are confident that we have moved the process along so that there are far fewer issues, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 121-15(6): Administration Of Social Housing Subsidy Program

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In addition to the clients being impacted by what would seem to me poor delivery of service, also the housing authorities out there are being impacted because of ECE’s inability to calculate the subsidies in a timely fashion which in turn leads them to have some cash flow problems down the road in addressing fixing up units. I would like to ask the Minister if he has gotten any feedback from housing authorities in the Northwest Territories on the inability of ECE to accurately and timely get those assessments done. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 121-15(6): Administration Of Social Housing Subsidy Program

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There are only two authorities in the Northwest Territories that continue to complain about the approach we are taking. Almost all of the housing authorities across the Northwest Territories are working together with staff from Education, Culture and Employment. Particularly with the new change in the Income Support Program, what we are hoping to do is to have a case management approach which brings people together from the Housing Corporation, Health and Social Services, Justice, if necessary, and Education, Culture and Employment to ensure we are delivering the services appropriately to each individual and family in the Northwest Territories rather than having the disjointed set of programs that we have had in the past. The staff from all of the departments now are committed to bringing services by working together better. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 121-15(6): Administration Of Social Housing Subsidy Program

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I agree with the Minister that a centralized approach to government services, yes, that is possibly the answer here. But right now, it is done in a haphazard way. It is not a one stop shopping or one-window shopping per client. They have to go to two government offices, perhaps a bank, before they can deal with their rental subsidy. That is not the way it should work. I would like to ask the Minister what work has been undertaken to try to move us to that centralized government services approach? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 121-15(6): Administration Of Social Housing Subsidy Program

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Government of the Northwest Territories, the Cabinet, has adopted a policy on income security. That policy speaks to how our approach to income security should take place. It is going to take some time to coordinate everything, but the first steps are taking place starting on September 1 when we roll out the new Income Support Program. We will be developing offices across the Northwest Territories to ensure that our subsidy programs are delivered in a more coordinated fashion.

This government right now delivers $120 million a year of direct subsidies to people. We want to make sure that we are providing those subsidies in the best and most coordinated fashion. We think that we can do that better by bringing things under one roof. But it is going to take us a while. We are trying not to move so quickly to disrupt the system so that it causes a lot of turmoil to people. We think that the approach we have taken will, in fact, resolve issues and by coordinating between the different departments, we will be able to offer one-stop shopping. It is going to take us a while to get there. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 121-15(6): Administration Of Social Housing Subsidy Program

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just have one final question. It gets back to the committee the Minister was talking about with the Housing Corporation and ECE to listen to complaints or talk about complaints and how they are dealt with. I would like to ask the Minister if there is any opportunity for that committee to report back to the Members of this House on what complaints they are hearing and how they are dealing with them in an effort to try to examine how this program is being delivered? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 121-15(6): Administration Of Social Housing Subsidy Program

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That work is being done with the direction of the president of the Housing Corporation and the deputy minister of the department, and then the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation and myself meet with them in order to ensure that we are dealing with issues. So either Minister or both Ministers would be pleased to meet with committee to report on what we are hearing and how those issues are being resolved.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask questions today to the Minister of Human Resources. I want to make sure that we totally understand and find out, did we receive the program, the pay and benefits program, PeopleSoft, that we actually thought we were buying, Mr. Speaker? I am concerned that we may have bought a product that was faulty from the very beginning. Mr. Speaker, my first question to the Minister today is to find out what did we do when we bought this program. So, Mr. Speaker, does the Human Resources Minister today know, or can he tell us the fact that, did we change this program? Did we modify it in any way? Did we make adjustments without testing it properly to make sure it works? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.