Debates of August 20, 2007 (day 13)

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like the question referred to the Minister of ECE. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. The honourable Minister for Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 150-15(6): Income Support Policy Application

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Income Support Program being delivered by Education, Culture and Employment, it is probably more appropriate that I respond to questions around that program. Mr. Speaker, apparently the Income Assistance Program is one of last resort. In this program, the way it is set up right now, clients are expected to use up all of their assets and all of their resources before any supports are provided. I have recently announced, though, that there are some changes beginning on September 1st with the program which will allow clients to keep an increased level of assets going up to $50,000 from the current limit of $5,000 and you have a program that is going to provide increased supports. There is going to be a somewhat more flexible program.

With a case managed approach where ECE workers work with Health and Social Services staff as well as Housing staff, we are hoping that we are going to be able to find ways to more effectively deal with unique circumstances that families may find themselves in. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 150-15(6): Income Support Policy Application

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Well, fortunately I was prepared in case the Health Minister didn’t want to answer the questions. I was ready for the income support Minister. Mr. Speaker, my next question will be for the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment. Will he look at addressing the shortfall that is created by this Income Support Program? The Income Support Program only allows the person up to $1,200 a year as little extra money that they can declare without it being clawed back. Mr. Speaker, my constituent’s mortgage is way more than that and has to be paid 12 times a year. So what is this Minister going to do to make sure this family doesn’t have to use up all of their assets that he has cited and lose their home because we cannot find a simple balance to work through this problem? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 150-15(6): Income Support Policy Application

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is just a point of clarification. The current rules of the program don’t allow for a $1,200 exemption. The beginning of September the 1st, up to $1,200 or $1,200 of unearned income can be exempted by a family. That is in addition to the $400 per family plus 15 percent of all earnings above that that can be exempt from the program. So the program is changing significantly from a program of simply last resort to one that is intended to better support people. But any program like this where government subsidies are given out is a balance between affordability and what people need. So the government has had to set some limits on what supports are available. We are quite confident, though, Mr. Speaker, that in any case we are providing adequate supports for families in the Northwest Territories.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 150-15(6): Income Support Policy Application

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If the Minister would take time to look at this scenario and this specific case he would realize that this family is going to lose their home by these fair rules designed by the system. Mr. Speaker, because we do not exempt the mortgage that a family member is paying and this government doesn’t pay the mortgage and fact that a doctor tells them that they need full-time care at home, that leaves no one left to go to work to pay the mortgage, Mr. Speaker. So when the father helps, they get it all clawed back so they lose any net gain they would have gotten from income support. The bottom line is, Mr. Speaker, will the Minister look at this specific case to find out what is wrong with this situation and find a balance to make it work so they don’t lose their home? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 150-15(6): Income Support Policy Application

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We are always prepared to look at cases of families in the Northwest Territories. As I said, beginning September 1st, we are hoping to be able to improve the services and the supports we provide to families in the North. In fact, we know we are going to improve the supports that we provide to families in the North.

We also need to make sure that we have all of the helping agencies at the table. We need to make sure that we have Education, Culture and Employment, Health and Social Services, and the Housing Corporation. Mr. Speaker, I can make sure that all three agencies are involved and looking at what is possible given our current rules. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 150-15(6): Income Support Policy Application

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Well, the Minister keeps pointing at September 1st that everything is going to be okay, but the fact is this family is in jeopardy of losing their house. I will tell you for a fact today, Mr. Speaker, that if they sold this house to a brother, sister or close relative for $1, we could rent it from income support and pay the full cost of the mortgage through a rental program. But yet we can’t seem to find a balance between getting help and solving this problem. So, Mr. Speaker, I want to hear a commitment today. Will the Minister go look at this whole situation and find some flexibility in this program so this family doesn’t lose everything? In another month or two we will be covering every single cost, not just helping them here on this situation. We are going to lose and we are going to have to help them everywhere and this family is going to be broken up. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 150-15(6): Income Support Policy Application

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As things stand right now, the program is governed by regulations. Those regulations change on September 1st. So the rules may change then, but I can’t arbitrarily change them today. There is no flexibility built into the program that allows a Minister to do that under our current legislation and regulations. As of September 1st, there may be a different method of looking at this program. In advance of that, there is no reason that ECE, Health and Social Services and the Housing Corporation can’t be working together to ensure that all that is possibly available to a family in need is provided. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the Premier. I want to say the Minister responsible for the Deh Cho Bridge Corporation, which would be the Minister of Transportation, but for my arguments today and my questions, I would like to ask the Premier. Getting back to my Member’s statement earlier, nowhere in the Deh Cho Bridge Act does it say that a bridge across the Mackenzie River should be built at any price. What the Deh Cho Bridge Act does is give the government the ability to negotiate, on behalf of the residents of the Northwest Territories, an agreement. But the problem, Mr. Speaker, is that Regular Members on this side of the House have not been party to any of those negotiations. The project has gone from 60 to 70 million dollars to now $150 million. What residents here in Yellowknife and the North Slave region want to understand and have is peace of mind. I think the government should come clean on a cost-benefit analysis on the Deh Cho Bridge project based on those current numbers. That is $150 million and that is $6.75 a tonne today and in 2010 when that bridge is going to be completed it will be over $7 a tonne. I would like to ask the Premier how come there has not been a cost-benefit analysis on the Deh Cho Bridge project with current numbers? Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Premier, Mr. Handley.

Return To Question 151-15(6): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The bridge is a result of negotiations for financing, contracting, consultant services, oversight and so on. There is a whole range of negotiations going on. That kind of analysis is an ongoing exercise. Mr. Speaker, I give the Members assurances that that bridge at today’s prices is doable for $6 a tonne in 2002 dollars. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 151-15(6): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the fact of the matter is that is 2002 dollars. It is five years later. The cost of those tolls is going to be $6.75. That is in today’s dollars. When the bridge is constructed, it will be 2010. You can rest assured, due to inflation, those costs per tonne are going to be over $7. Again, I would like to ask the Premier, where is a cost-benefit analysis of the Deh Cho Bridge project based on current factual information? That is $150 million. That is $7 a tonne. Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 151-15(6): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am really disappointed that the Member is so reluctant to move ahead with an important piece of infrastructure here. Clearly, he hasn’t seen the empty store shelves, the shutdown of construction projects because there is no material, the mines to construction industry, everybody being affected by this let alone the number of students who can’t fly home at Christmas. There are no assurances and so on.

Mr. Speaker, when we come to negotiations, we don’t negotiate this in public any more than we negotiate most things that are negotiable in public. We are elected. We will do the negotiations. We will assess whether or not it is viable. We will go ahead based on whether or not it makes good economic sense. Mr. Speaker, the bridge, as the Member has said, is roughly $6.75 per tonne for heavy loads going North in today’s dollars, exactly what it will be 10 years from now or five years from now, I can’t give any assurances for 20 years from now, but it is indexed. It was indexed based on a formula in 2002. That is all doable without having to ask anyone to bail out of the bridge somehow. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 151-15(6): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, all I have been critical of with the government is I just want to see the proof. Show me the proof and I can support the project. The government hasn’t been able, for whatever reason, to show me the proof that the cost of living in Yellowknife and in the North Slave region will not go up if this bridge is built.

I would like to ask the Premier if these numbers, that is $150 million, that is $7 a tonne or $6.75 a tonne, has been shopped around to stakeholders here in the North Slave region. I am talking about industry, transportation companies, municipalities, chambers of commerce, the Tlicho Government and the Akaitcho Government. Has the government spoken to those organizations, Mr. Speaker? Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 151-15(6): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just find it really odd that of all of the public infrastructure we build, the MLA would choose this one to say we need to have all of the facts. Are we going to have to do this every time we replace a culvert or pave or chipseal a piece of road? This is a piece of infrastructure. We don’t do that often. We do our assessment. We run good government and we make sure that what we are doing is in the benefit of all of the people of the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Speaker, I just don’t understand the reluctance here. Mr. Speaker, do we talk to everybody? Yes, we have talked to everybody going back to 2002. We have talked to everyone about this. Now, as I say, we are not negotiating everything in public. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 151-15(6): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there is a big difference between building a culvert and building a $150 million bridge, that is a kilometre across the Mackenzie River. There is a huge difference there. I think the government and the Premier has all but admitted it. They haven’t gone back out with the new numbers. Sure, we talked to people in 2002. That is when the project was 60 to 70 million dollars. It is $150 million now. Is the government going to go out and consult with the stakeholders? The cost of living is going to go up here in the North Slave region and the government should go back out and should consult with the public. That, to me, is good government, Mr. Speaker. Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 151-15(6): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Some of us believe it is our job in this Legislative Assembly, it seems, to just keep consulting and consulting and studying and so on. Some of us believe it is our job to do things. Mr. Speaker, we are going to do this. We are not going to every step of the way go out and get people’s opinions again. We got people’s opinions since 2002. We know we have a good deal. We know it is workable at the $6 a tonne in 2002 dollars or $6.75 today and something else in 2010 when it is completed. We know it is good for Yellowknife, the North Slave region and the mines. It is another important piece of infrastructure. We are going to go forward with this unless something really goes sideways on a final contract. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, thank you. My questions this afternoon are for the Minister responsible for the Workers’ Compensation Board, Mr. Krutko. It regards the plight of longstanding unresolved cases of injured workers and specifically the widely publicized case of Mr. Ivan Valic, a worker who was injured while he was helping to build the Ruth Inch Memorial Pool here in Yellowknife some 19 years ago now.

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Valic’s case was a subject of a Supreme Court ruling that found the WCB’s policies and procedures wanting and an instruction developed to make sure that his case was reheard at appeal. But my understanding is that even 18 months after that court ruling, Mr. Valic’s case still remains unresolved. I would like the Minister to advise the Assembly what is the status of Mr. Valic’s longstanding case with the WCB?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. The honourable Minister responsible for the Workers’ Compensation Board, Mr. Krutko.

Return To Question 152-15(6): Longstanding Workers’ Compensation Claims

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in regards to this case, the individual was compensated for the outstanding case, but also at this time there is presently a dispute in regards to some outstanding receipts that the member has had. The Workers’ Compensation Board has, along with the client, taken that case to arbitration. It is before arbitration right now and being heard in regards to the outstanding receipts that are being disputed. The individual was compensated and settled. We thought that was taken care of. But he, at this present time, is disputing some outstanding receipts in regards to his medical receipts and those have been forwarded to independent arbitration. Again, because it is before arbitration, I will not be answering any more questions on this matter. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 152-15(6): Longstanding Workers’ Compensation Claims

Mr. Speaker, what steps will the WCB be taking to address the relatively large caseload of longstanding chronically unresolved issues for injured workers? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 152-15(6): Longstanding Workers’ Compensation Claims

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as we all know, we have revised the payment policy that we have in place in regards to chronic pain which is now part and parcel of that policy. That will hopefully improve and clarify exactly the situation around chronic pain. Again, we are coming forward with legislation to this House which will improve the system that we presently have, which again is an improvement of what we already have. Again, Mr. Speaker, those are some of the efforts that we are working at. Again, we are doing our best to satisfy workers. Again, there have been commitments I made myself in this House to get information back to the House in regards to the number of outstanding cases and cases that have been resolved to date. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, earlier I talked about the beluga whales that are presently in Husky Lakes. It happened as well last year. We were fortunate, Mr. Speaker, that last year ENR provided assistance for the Tuk hunters and trappers to harvest the whales even though it was late in the season, some time in late November or early December. Right now, Tuk HTC made it very clear, Mr. Speaker, that they will not do anything at the present time. They will let nature take its course in terms of the beluga whales trying to get out of Husky Lakes. I would like to ask the Minister of ENR if he can work with the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and the Fishing Joint Management Committee and try to find a solution to this problem. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak. The honourable Minister of Environment and Natural Resources, Mr. McLeod.

Return To Question 153-15(6): Beluga Whales Entering Husky Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We certainly will commit to working with the hunters' and trappers' committee and the Fisheries and Oceans who is the lead on this issue. I think there are about 85 whales trapped in the Husky Lakes area again this year. We are hoping that they will find their way out this fall through the channel that leads to the Arctic Ocean. We have to wait until some time later this fall to see if that happens. Failing that, we will certainly work with the community, the hunters' and trappers' committee and the federal government. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Supplementary, Mr. Pokiak.

Supplementary To Question 153-15(6): Beluga Whales Entering Husky Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A quick follow-up here. The Minister indicated they will wait until probably early September. I don't know at what point in time, but if it's decided that they require assistance for monitoring and trying to lead them out of the Husky Lakes, I'm just wondering if the Minister can sit down with the HTC at a certain point in time before it gets too late, unlike last year, and provide the funds required to either harvest or chase them out of Husky Lake. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak. Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 153-15(6): Beluga Whales Entering Husky Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We are monitoring the situation. We are certainly aware of the issue and the concern from people in the community. We will have some early discussions with Fisheries and Oceans on this issue and also talk to the community as early as possible. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Supplementary, Mr. Pokiak.

Supplementary To Question 153-15(6): Beluga Whales Entering Husky Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can I ask the Minister right now, at the present time has he talked with DFO and FJMC on the Tuk issue to see about this horrible problem? Thank you.