Debates of August 20, 2007 (day 13)

Agreed.

Okay, can I ask committee to turn to page 5. Bill 18, page 5. Executive, operations expenditures, Human Resources, Human Resource Strategy and policy, not previously authorized, negative $523,000.

Agreed.

Total Human Resources, not previously authorized, negative $523,000.

Agreed.

Total department, not previously authorized, negative $523,000.

Agreed.

Page 6, Public Works and Services, operations expenditures, asset management, not previously authorized, $64,000.

Agreed.

Total department, not previously authorized, $64,000.

Agreed.

Turn to page 7, Health and Social Services, operations expenditures, program delivery support, not previously authorized, $940,000.

Agreed.

Health services programs, not previously authorized, negative $417,000.

Agreed.

Total department, not previously authorized, $523,000.

Agreed.

Page 8, Justice, operations expenditures, courts, not previously authorized, $21,000.

Agreed.

Total department, not previously authorized, $21,000.

Agreed.

Page 9, Transportation, operations expenditures, airports, not previously authorized, $856,000.

Agreed.

Total department, not previously authorized, $856,000.

Agreed.

Page 10, Industry, Tourism and Investment, operations expenditures, economic development, not previously authorized, $3.083 million. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Like some of my colleagues, I’m happy to see the new initiative role out for the Tourism Product Diversification and Marketing Program. The one thing I will say, and it’s a lack of participation on behalf of the committee that looks at ITI, this is the first that we’ve seen of the program and I would hope, and I just wanted to get this on record, that as the program develops and it moves forward, that committee is involved in the rollout of this program because really this is the first time we’ve seen it. It makes it difficult for members on the Governance and Economic Development committee to go to committee when we look at a supp and other Members ask us about this new initiative and we know nothing about it, really. So I just wanted to mention that for the record, Mr. Chairman. Again, I think it’s a move in the right direction.

The one question I would have in that, is it enough money? I think once we let the horse out of the barn so to speak, is this going to be enough money to help our tourism industry? I know sport fishing lodges have taken a tremendous downturn recently and we’re looking at some lower numbers in aurora tourism; we’re looking at lower numbers on the consumptive side of caribou. So is this going to be enough money, Mr. Chairman?

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, this coming forward at a late state, usually, as I stated earlier, we find departments…In this case the department did come forward, it was part of their Tourism 2010 package in request for additional support. At that point, it wasn’t given. With the change in our process and a slightly better change in our fiscal environment, this came back to the table and was supported. Ultimately though, as the Member stated, is it enough? We’ll probably find that the request still in total doesn’t match the original request that was made, but it is a support for changing the way tourism business can be looked at and the type of tourism that is available in the Northwest Territories. But I would say at this point that we would still probably fall short of the total ask that would be out there, but it is an increase to what’s existing. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just following up to some of the questions earlier in regard to the trade mission to China, it is a little bit odd that it’s taking place during an election campaign for most of us. The reason I wanted to bring this up, and I guess from where I sit on the Governance and Economic Development committee we first learned of the mission in June and that was via an invitation from the Minister to our chairperson to attend the trade mission. Obviously during an election, that’s going to be almost impossible for the Member to commit to that.

Trying to get me out of town.

---Laughter

Yes, trying to get her out of town. The interesting thing, Mr. Chairman, is we just haven’t got any detail, any level of detail on who is going, what the itinerary is, who invited us, who we’re seeing, who's going. I think in isolation of that information, it makes it difficult to make a decision. I like to make a decision based on something. I just don’t want to say yes, it’s okay, go ahead. I haven’t seen, like I said, except for an invitation letter, that’s the extent of the information that the government has put forward to our committee and to Regular Members. So to support a trade mission to China if it’s the right thing to do and if you can show us that you’re going to be getting something out of it, and that’s not too much to ask I don’t think. Show us who is going, show us who you’re meeting with and tell us what we’re going to get as a result of going over there. Is it going to set up something in the future so that the next government and other business leaders in this territory can go over there and kind of pave a path for them? Is it going to accomplish that? I’d certainly support it if it’s going to deliver that type of thing, but nobody has communicated that to us. It’s just we’re going to China, we’re going in September, and that’s all we’ve heard. I think we need more information before I would be willing to support that.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the department has been doing more work in this area and solidifying the plans. I believe Minister Bell may have some information he may be able to share.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Bell.

Mr. Chairman, thank you. No, I don’t think it’s too much to ask if committee could see the detail of this proposed trip. I’m certainly prepared to provide that. I indicated earlier that this was really focused on businesspeople and primarily they are the folks that are travelling. For instance, NTCL is very interested in some Chinese manufacturing opportunities, transporting modules down from Tuk and through the Mackenzie to the oil sands. Aurora Village and Aurora World will be present; obviously interested in diversifying their aurora tourism business from just Japanese. A couple of lodges, Watta Lake Lodge and Mackay Lake Lodge interested in, again, as we talk about nature-based tourism, ecotourism, adventure tourism and seeing if we can attract a Chinese market, and there are a few others, Mr. Chairman. I’m certainly prepared to come to committee, present the trip as proposed. The meetings and the itinerary is laid out. So I can certainly go through that with committee members. I think it’s a very worthwhile trip given that time is of the essence given the pressure that our aurora tourism industry is under. So I’d be more than happy to sit down with committee members and talk about the trip program that we’ve built.

To the first question around the Tourism Product Diversification and Marketing Program, I have to apologize to committee for not coming back to committee after Cabinet approval late in July. We knew that there wasn’t much time before the supp would see the House. We were on a very compressed schedule, but it was in fact committee’s urging and questioning of me in front of committee and in the House about whether or not our Tourism 2010 targets were achievable given the pressure that we had seen that the consumptive tourism industry was under. There were questions and urging to broaden out and diversify and look at some of the nature-based tourism and take advantage of some of our obvious ecotourism advantages in the Northwest Territories. So we were trying to respond as quickly as we possibly could. I don’t know if this will be, in the end, enough money. I think it’s a very good start. I think future governments will have to assess and take a look at the targets and see whether or not we’re meeting those, but I think, again, this is a good expenditure. It is in response to committee’s urging both in the House and in front of committee and I only apologize that we weren’t able to come back to committee after getting the approval in Cabinet and realized that the first you’ve seen of it was in committee and then this discussion on the floor of the House. So that certainly is my failing in that respect and I hope that you can see that the program is worthwhile though. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I don’t know; this is just the way things work. I mean last week we had, and the public is going to be able to read this and I have to still be careful with what I say because I don’t want to breach any protocol issues, but we have meetings, we had meetings on the supp last week, issues were raised at that meeting. The government had ample opportunity to come back and give us some information. We asked for information last week in regard to the delegation going to China. It’s Monday; we haven’t got that information. We were trying to get the information last week and here we are today discussing the supp on the floor of the House and we just don’t have the information in front of us, Mr. Chairman. Ultimately somebody is responsible for not getting us that information. We asked for it. Where is it? Again, they just want us to come and say bang, it's okay, here you go. But just give us some information. That’s all we’re asking for. I don’t think it’s too much to ask, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the Member is right and we do, through this whole process, sit down with committee initially to get some input and if there is a request for information, work on getting it together. But we just sat down with committee on Thursday and have requested that information as we do from the appropriate departments. As we heard, the Minister is prepared to sit down with committee and provide that information. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Ramsay.

I forgot, Mr. Chairman, how fast government moves. I’m sorry. Pardon me, but something like this you would think would be fairly straightforward, it would be easy to get. They probably already have an itinerary, they know who they’ve talked to, they know who the meetings are with, who invited them, who’s going. Just give us that information. That’s not too much to ask. Three days is a long time to me, Mr. Chairman, to be able to get that information. What are we expected to do, just say it's okay? We don’t have any information, but they promised us some and, yes, it’s okay. It just makes the decision-making difficult, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I believe Minister Bell can give a bit more information.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Bell.

Mr. Chairman, I could speak to a lot of this detail, but it’s probably easier if Members had this in front of them. So what I’ll do is make sure that you have copies of this information, you have the briefing note that I have in front of me, you can see who the meetings are with, who is on the list and we’ll make sure that happens in the next half an hour here. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Mr. Ramsay.

That’s good. Thank you.

Thank you. Next I have Mr. Braden.