Debates of August 21, 2007 (day 14)

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 164-15(6): Caribou Management Issues

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There’s been contact with all the different regions regarding the situation with the caribou herds in those specific areas. We’ve had action plans discussed with the different resource management groups and aboriginal governments. Some of the actions have been readily accepted, others we're still discussing on if there’s better ways to do and implement some of these actions. Mr. Speaker, they’re all at various stages and I certainly could provide that information to the Member if he wanted. It’s quite a lengthy process and there’s a lot of different actions. Some apply to some areas and others don’t. So, Mr. Speaker, I’ll have to commit to do that.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 164-15(6): Caribou Management Issues

Thanks for the information. Mr. Speaker, given the high profile, the seriousness, the significance of caribou in our economy and our lifestyle up here, can the Minister advise is there a solid communications strategy in place that will be distributing this information and helping to inform everybody of the results and the steps as they are developed, Mr. Speaker?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 164-15(6): Caribou Management Issues

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There are action plans that we’re working jointly in the Beaufort-Delta and the Sahtu. There is still some concern in this area where we’ve made recommendations to the Wekeezhii board and we don’t anticipate that we’ll hear back from that board until the end of September, Mr. Speaker. Then certainly if our legal division has a review, we can provide what we can make public at that time, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today my questions are in following up to the Member’s statement I made about the proposal being put forward by the SideDoor in support of a program that would, I think, create another opportunity for the youth in the community to spend their time productively. Mr. Speaker, I have to say that in my time as an MLA, I’ve had the good fortune of meeting and working with a lot of young people who are doing great things, a lot of positive things, taking full advantage of all the financial assistance and everything available to reach their potential, but we all know that there are youth who could use help with being in more productive places. We need to organize programs that are attractive to them and skateboarding seems to be something that is really attractive to young people. The SideDoor has a good program to do that. They have already done a pilot program on this in April and they want to continue to do this. I know that they have already submitted a proposal to the government, through the Premier, and I’d like to ask either the Premier or any Minister responsible about where they are with this proposal. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. The honourable Premier, Mr. Handley.

Return To Question 165-15(6): SideDoor Proposal For Youth Programming

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have taken this issue up with the Department of Public Works who are responsible for the government warehouse, which is the facility the ministry was interested in. I want to acknowledge first the good work that the ministry does with young people and the efforts they’ve made on this skateboard park idea and King of Kings competition that they’re putting on. Mr. Speaker, it’s all good work for young people.

Unfortunately, when we took a look at the government warehouse then, there were several issues; the primary one being just space. There just was not the space to be able to accommodate what they were wanting to do there. There were also issues that could have been overcome; things like security and safety and liability and insurance and so on. Those are all things we could resolve, but the problem was with space. Having said that, Mr. Speaker, we don’t want to let this drop. I want to see if there are ways that we can encourage the city to make more space available. Mr. Speaker, I just signed a letter to the proponents of this proposal just before noon saying that we would not be able to make space available in the warehouse. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 165-15(6): SideDoor Proposal For Youth Programming

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m glad the Premier mentioned that because I checked with them prior to noon and at that time I was not aware that they had made a decision. So it was somehow criss-crossed in our communication. Regardless, I think this is a good issue that the SideDoor ministry is working on and it’s something that the government and all municipal governments should look at; especially our city. So I would like to ask the Premier if he would employ what resource is available in the government, whether it’s somebody in the youth department or MACA, to see if there are any other options we can look to to implement this, The Rock program, because I think it’s a very good program. Could he look into that for me? Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 165-15(6): SideDoor Proposal For Youth Programming

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, we will take a look at it. As I said, it is a good program. I like what they’re doing with young people. Mr. Speaker, I don’t think the government warehouse is the only space. We do have other space in the GNWT. We might be able to look at something else or work out a deal with the city somehow. I don’t know and without knowing too much about what’s out there, you know, we have facilities out at the airport, we’ve got something that we would like to work with this group on. But, Mr. Speaker, unfortunately there’s no easy answer to this one right now. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 165-15(6): SideDoor Proposal For Youth Programming

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Without having had a chance to look at the letter I don’t know how final it was, but listening to Mr. Premier I think that there might be a wee little tiny bit of room open there. So could I ask the Premier, could I take his answer to mean that he’s encouraging his department to work with this group to see if there are any other avenues and perhaps he could commit to asking the MACA department to look at that further? Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 165-15(6): SideDoor Proposal For Youth Programming

Mr. Speaker, yes, she can take my answer to mean that we will not let this one drop. We will see if there’s another way of helping this group. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When I thanked the Premier for my invitation to the ceremony on Friday, that was my effort at humour and it’s a good thing I’m not a stand-up comedian, Mr. Speaker, because it wasn’t that great. I wanted to ask the Premier some questions today about the Deh Cho Bridge project again. Mr. Speaker, I, too, want to be able to stand up here and defend this project. I want to be able to stand by the government and say that this project makes sense, but it’s much like the discussion we had in Committee of the Whole yesterday about the trip to China. The government expects us to make decisions without giving us the information to make the decision with. The same is true with the Deh Cho Bridge, Mr. Speaker.

I want to ask the Premier, once again, how come there is no cost-benefit analysis on the Deh Cho bridge project based on the $150 million and the $6.75 per tonne? Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Premier, Mr. Handley.

Return To Question 166-15(6): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m glad to hear the Member has a sense of humour and I certainly hopes he takes up the offer to come to the opening.

Mr. Speaker, I don’t know what happened. I think the Member has convinced himself that there’s some devious plan here and that the cost to consumers has gone up. Well, he’s listening to himself too much.

---Laughter

Mr. Speaker, let me say again, let me say the cost to consumers, the cost to industry, is $6 a tonne based on 2002 dollars, or $6.75 per tonne. It doesn’t matter what the total cost of the bridge is. That’s how much it’s going to cost those who use it. It’s $6.75. It doesn’t matter what the total cost is. Mr. Speaker, the balance is paid for by others. Let me explain that again. It’s $6.75 a tonne to consumers. There was a report done by the co-op stores and others in 2002 saying this is a savings. That remains.

Mr. Speaker, the other money that goes into it, we, as a government, are putting the costs for operating the ferry and the costs for building and maintaining the ice road into the pool of money to pay for this bridge. That will go in annually. That is indexed, as is the $6.75.

Mr. Speaker, in addition to that, the federal government are putting a little bit of money right now through the Aboriginal Business Development Corporation. They are also considering the P3 money and we hope they provide that. In the event that they don’t provide that, the government, out of our increased fiscal resources, are putting up to $2 million in to pay for our additional costs to balance it out. So this doesn’t go directly on the backs of consumers. Mr. Speaker, how much is that $2 million worth? Well, if you took 25,000 people living north of the river, then that’s roughly $80 a person per year, but you can’t do it that simply because there’s also the benefit to the mines. So that $2 million could be argued it costs somebody something, but it’s going to be marginal, Mr. Speaker, but that’s the only piece that’s in addition to what was there in 2002. It’s still the $6 in 2002 dollars, Mr. Speaker. It’s very simple. It’s easy. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 166-15(6): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Yes, I thank the Premier for his economics lesson, Mr. Speaker, but the problem is, and the fact remains, that the last cost-benefit analysis that was done on the project was done in 2002 at 60 to 70 million dollars. The project has more than doubled in price. The totals were, at the time, $4.50 to $5 a tonne, that’s what the cost benefit analysis was based on in 2002. Totals now are going to be $6.75 a tonne. All I’m asking, Mr. Speaker, is where is the evidence? If the Premier can stand up here today and say that that is in fact the truth, show us. I haven’t seen anything that would indicate that prices aren’t going to increase here in Yellowknife. The reason why is because the government, now that the project has changed in scope, hasn’t gone back out to the transportation companies, hasn’t gone back out to industry, hasn’t gone back out to the chambers of commerce, hasn’t gone back out to the municipalities. That’s why, Mr. Speaker. So where is the evidence? Where is the proof? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 166-15(6): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We don’t have to go back to the trucking companies or the industry again. It’s still the same amount as we said it was in 2002 indexed. So that $6 is now $6.75 or so. By the time the bridge is built in 2010 it will be something different. That’s the same deal that was offered to the industry and trucking companies in 2002. It’s still the same deal. Mr. Speaker, it’s very simple. It’s not hard to figure out.

What has the cost of the total project gone up? Well, there was a presentation done to the committee on it. I can give the Member another copy of it if he wants to take another look. If he wants to come to my office, I’ll lead him through it. Mr. Speaker, if the whole committee wants to come to my office, I’ll do it with the whole committee, but, Mr. Speaker, we know the cost has gone up. We also know that the population’s gone up; we know that there are now soon to be three diamond mines operating north of the river; they’ve gone underground; they’re using more fuel. There’s lots of reasons why or how there’s going to be the dollars to pay for the bridge. There’s more tonnage going over that bridge than we ever expected. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 166-15(6): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, going back five years, and I’ve been a Member of the House for four years and I’ve asked questions in the past about the Deh Cho Bridge project, the Deh Cho Bridge Corporation, how it was being funded by the government. You know, we stand here today and the project is over $150 million. Sure, they had to go through an environmental review of that project. That took a year. It has been almost five years since the inception of that Deh Cho Bridge Corporation that we’re here today trying to make a decision on a bridge. So somebody has got to bear the responsibility for taking so long to get this project where it is, Mr. Speaker.

I want to switch gears here a little bit and talk about liability of the Deh Cho Bridge project. I’m to understand that there’s a statement of claim, which was filed in the Supreme Court of the Northwest Territories against the Deh Cho Bridge Corporation, and I’d like to ask the Premier if that is a liability, an ongoing liability for the Government of the Northwest Territories, Mr. Speaker? Thank you.

The question is leaning a bit toward asking the Premier’s opinion on something, but I’m going to allow the question if the Premier is willing to answer it. I’ll put the question to the Premier. The honourable Premier.

Further Return To Question 166-15(6): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Mr. Speaker, I’ll answer in a general way. Up to now and including the time when the financing is in place for the bridge for the bridge corporation, then the GNWT has been up-fronting the costs. We have taken out a loan in advance of it, but that will be recouped once the bridge is built. All of the costs are to be borne by the operation of the bridge, and, Mr. Speaker, I’d venture to say that includes any liabilities, would be borne by the Bridge Corporation and would be paid for out of their profits from operating the bridge. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 166-15(6): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess just a follow-up question to that. Who is currently paying the Deh Cho Bridge Corporation’s legal fees, Mr. Speaker? Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 166-15(6): Deh Cho Bridge Project

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think I already answered that one, but the GNWT has loaned the Bridge Corporation money to pay all of their costs up to now and will continue to do that to the point that the financing is in place for the bridge. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions today, well they’re regarding money and funding so I’ll direct them to the Minister of Finance. It’s regarding the NGO funding. I’d like to ask the Minister if all requests for NGO funding have to go through regional offices? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Minister responsible for Finance, Mr. Roland.

Return To Question 167-15(6): Funding For Non-Government Organizations

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, first and foremost it would depend on the relationship between the NGO. If they’re in our regions, they would go through the appropriate department, the regional staff there. For example, if it’s an NGO working with the Department of Health and Social Services or a regional health and social services authority, they would go through that initiative. If it’s Education, they would go through the DEC process and then up to the departments on that basis. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Mr. McLeod.

Supplementary To Question 167-15(6): Funding For Non-Government Organizations

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to ask the Minister if it would be an option to have all NGOs apply directly to the Finance Minister’s office and have it show up as a line item in the budget? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 167-15(6): Funding For Non-Government Organizations

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, that would be difficult as right now we review on a department basis the requests for budget. For example, during budget planning processes we work with the departments, departments bring their forced growth initiatives up through those avenues. For example, the Department of Health and Social Services would work with every authority on some of the forced growth requests and there would be some back and forth on that side before it comes as a departmental plan. It would be difficult to break out each NGO organization, their involvement, and separate them and then come directly to the Finance Minister. We look at department initiatives through that process. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Mr. McLeod.

Supplementary To Question 167-15(6): Funding For Non-Government Organizations

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When the departments bring their requests for funding forward, is there a particular line item in there for all the NGO funding that they propose to give out during the year? Thank you

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 167-15(6): Funding For Non-Government Organizations

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, they would fall into a number of different categories specific to what area of the programming the funding was provided under. If it was provided under strictly contribution agreements to groups and regions or if it was a contract basis, delivering part of a service on behalf of the Government of the Northwest Territories. So it falls into a number of areas. So there isn’t a clear line item that would just say NGO contribution agreement. What we would do, for example, if it was a new initiative or highlighting, departments would highlight when they presented to committees the amount that was presented or being requested for authority to committee and then to the House. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Final supplementary, Mr. McLeod.

Supplementary To Question 167-15(6): Funding For Non-Government Organizations

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the people that work for the NGOs are a resilient bunch, but you can only bend something so far and eventually it is going to break. We are just fortunate that we have these people in the front line. I would like to ask the Minister if there are any steps that we can take to ensure that these folks get their funding in a timely manner so all they have to do is concentrate on working with the clients that they serve? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 167-15(6): Funding For Non-Government Organizations

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there are a number of initiatives that we have undertaken, as the Government of the Northwest Territories, to improve our working relationship with NGOs. As we realize, they are an integral part of the delivery in a number of areas. So we have looked at a number of factors of working with them. There have been requests made for multi-year funding. We have started to look at that in areas. As well, the government has looked at the overall NGO area where there are requests being included into forced growth. We have done some work in that area and have allowed, starting with this year’s budget in 2007-08, items for forced growth to NGOs; in particular, the ones that fall into category A of our relationship. Thank you.