Debates of February 10, 2005 (day 33)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess maybe the Minister didn’t quite get the question I was trying to get at. I will try to rephrase it. I know there aren’t any communities in their right mind that are going to refuse free money, as the Minister referred to it. With this free money, this extra $350,000 in operating revenue that’s going to be flowing to the communities, how is MACA, who is going to be retaining all these other tasks of printing out rolls and doing the appeals process and the tax collection and the administration and all that stuff, going to subsidize their own work into this whole initiative? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 359-15(3): Taxation Problems In NWT Communities

Mr. Speaker, I’m not sure if I’m understanding the question correctly, but we are doing it already. We’re paying for all of what the Member has pointed out with our own sources. Right now, with the transfer of revenues from the property taxes, the communities will enjoy revenues that they don’t currently get and without the burden of the administration for the interim. At some point we’d like the communities to take it on and we will require additional resources, but at this point we are looking at doing it ourselves through the departments of Municipal and Community Affairs and Finance.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct my questions to the Minister of Finance. I wish I could get excited about all the good news in the budget, but there are some unhappy things…

---Laughter

There is a lot of good news in the budget and I think everybody knows, including Mr. Roland, that I think he does a very good job. I wouldn’t want to be the Finance Minister for any amount of money. I think he did a good job today and some people in the gallery even said…

---Applause

Some people out in the Great Hall today said it was the best budget address they’ve ever heard. But I’ve had a few unhappy things happen in my community lately which sort of tempers my excitement about the budget address today.

I’d like to ask Minister Roland, I guess in a broad context, Mr. Speaker, if there isn’t something we can add to our process here which would make for more availability of being creative. We’re a territory of 42,000 people. We have $1 billion. If we can find a million or two for some new little initiative, we’re all excited about it. Because there are so many things that are already in place, there are so many directions we’re already going in and it seems like there’s a disconnect between this whole life that exists within departments and how the government operates and what we actually bring to bear on it, it seems like there’s a bit of a gap there. It seems like when we sit down to consider things, it’s in a very reactive fashion. We can sort of look at exactly what’s before us and respond to it. But it doesn’t ever seem like there’s an opportunity to sit and look at it in the context of we’ve got a billion dollars, what are our priorities, what would we like to do as this small, little population that lives up here in this vast land mass. I would like to ask the Minister of Finance if he thinks there’s anything that could be added to our process that could help us be more responsive to the realities that face our territory. Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Minister of Finance, the Honourable Floyd Roland.

Return To Question 360-15(3): Developing A More Responsive Budget

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as a government and as we begin the process of planning for budgets and the budget cycle, there is a lot of work. A lot of it is based on existing programs and services as departments come forward for more money; forced growth, as we call it. As calls are being made on departments for new programs, those are the areas we call new initiatives, to try to find the money for those. As we set our direction, the fiscal strategy, of trying to reduce the growth of government and keep our spending in check, we have to reprioritize from within. There are initiatives that we do take that are broad across the board to look at what we are doing as a government. One of the things we key in on with the resources we have available is our strategic plan. As we sit down and map that out, we then take that and apply it to the fiscal resources we have with the core programs we have to deliver and try to work something out in that arrangement. At times we look at just broad, across-the-board direction on general reduction cycles or aiming at a five percent reduction across the board. There are times when, as we’ve brought it forward, we have looked at departments themselves. Ministers responsible for their areas are given a specific target and they come back with how they can best achieve their targets. So we try to be flexible on how we do it and come forward with some broad-based areas.

One of the areas we’ve started to look at, for example, that I’ve looked at, is a zero-based funding approach from each department. We haven’t got to that scenario just yet. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 360-15(3): Developing A More Responsive Budget

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think that’s an interesting idea and I just hope that we get a chance as 19 Members to do a little bit more strategic planning. The Minister refers to our strategic plan. I think it’s too broad. I think it’s too high level. I think we’re in a rut. I know we need to deliver core services that governments deliver and we have certain mandates and obligations, but I think in terms of how we spend our money we’re in a rut. I think there’s a lot more good we could be doing. But once something is entrenched, it seems like it would take 40 years to turn it around and do something different with that same money that might be more responsive to the needs of the day. I would like to ask the Minister if there is a way to put that kind of discussion on the agenda when we meet with the Circle of Northern Leaders to put it in the context of zero-based planning and really finding out and soliciting what are the priorities and what are the most pressing needs of the people that we serve. Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 360-15(3): Developing A More Responsive Budget

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I support the idea of looking at how we attack the budget process cycle, planning, whatever we call it. At the same time, we have to realize that some of these actions also require a lot of initiative and workforce to refocus what they’re doing and come up with the numbers that we’d want as Members. Unfortunately, it does take, sometimes, a long time to turn things around. Again, there’s to and fro back in the House. Some plans are good, some things are changed. But we’re willing to sit down and try to work things through and come up with a way that we can see things. I think it’s even better now, once we get through this process. Once we have set ourselves up and have done so on a good fiscal plan, a healthy fiscal plan, then we’ll be better able to do some of that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise with a serious concern with the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development. Late last summer I had a meeting with a constituent who had brought serious concerns to me about having a legal cabin out along the Cameron River and the fact that people were bulldozing trees down, making roads, shooting guns at their cabin as well as other legal cabins and no one was doing anything about it. No RWED officer would be there, no RCMP officer would be there. Well, much later the Minister’s staff comes to me and says it’s not their problem to solve this question. They say it’s MACA’s problem, but they did, thankfully, come up with a map of something. Well, lo and behold, I forward that question to MACA. Months go by. Months, Mr. Speaker. MACA comes to me and says it’s not our problem either; it’s RWED’s problem.

Mr. Speaker, I have health and safety issues where people who have legal cabins, legal rights to be out there, and no one wants to take any responsibility. We can’t even get a department to take responsibility. Where is a response to this question that I’ve been waiting now almost six months for? Simply, who is responsible for the management of those areas? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, the Honourable Mr. Bell.

Return To Question 361-15(3): Health And Safety Concerns On The Ingraham Trail

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is a complex question. Obviously, it’s federal land. There’s the Forest Management Act. I have responsibilities under that act. There are issues around the highways out there and what you can and cannot do on highways that fall under DOT. There are MACA issues. There are environmental protection issues. I think it is collectively a problem that we have to come to grips with. It’s a very serious issue. I had asked our department to sit down and engage in a dialogue with the RCMP to talk about how we would respond to some of these concerns on the Ingraham Trail because, obviously, much of it is also related to keeping the peace and making sure the safety of people is protected. There aren’t a lot of easy answers, but what I think is important is that we work together and establish some protocols to ensure that we are able to deal with some of the issues that the Member has brought forward. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 361-15(3): Health And Safety Concerns On The Ingraham Trail

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I truly say thank you, Mr. Minister, yet I’m still waiting for an answer. I asked, when am I going to get a response to this letter. I’m waiting again now, in front of the public. My constituents are waiting. Their safety is an issue. We have people ploughing down trees in reserve areas. Are we going to wait for the chiefs to come say why we’re allowing people to destroy our land? Someday that’s going to be their land out there. The Minister almost…He said the Department of Justice, DOT. I’m surprised he didn’t say Housing and Education have a responsibility over this issue. I’m waiting for that next. When are we going to get an answer to these questions? It’s a simple question. Who’s responsible for this? We have leased, legal cabins out there and we have people knocking trees down, setting fires, having horrible parties, destroying our territorial lands that are stewarded by the Commissioner. When will I get an answer? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 361-15(3): Health And Safety Concerns On The Ingraham Trail

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If people’s lives are at risk, if people’s cabins are being burned down, if people are being shot at, being threatened, they obviously have to call the RCMP. I would suggest they do that. In all seriousness, Mr. Speaker, we can sit down and work through some of these issues. The Member is well aware of our legislated requirements and our abilities and areas of responsibility. I think the Member has his response to the question, but, as I’ve indicated, we’ve talked to the RCMP and want to make sure that people’s lives aren’t at risk and that their safety is ensured and we’ll continue to do that. But we are looking to establish a protocol for response in that area. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 361-15(3): Health And Safety Concerns On The Ingraham Trail

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I thank the Minister because I can start to feel an answer coming any minute now. I can tell you personally that the RCMP do not go out there. My constituents have phoned when they’ve heard people shooting at outhouses. Nobody goes. I mean, do we have to wait for an accident to happen? That’s why I tried to work six months ago with this department to say let’s start identifying the land. This is land right along our highway. This is certainly an area that could be addressed. I’ve suggested that, geez, let’s have land management policies out there. I need an answer. Who’s going to monitor this? Is RWED not going to? If you say no, that’s fine. Then we have an answer. But we need to make sure people are safe out there. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 361-15(3): Health And Safety Concerns On The Ingraham Trail

I would suggest to the Member that the RCMP will respond if people’s lives are in danger. If the Member rejects that, disputes that, we can certainly raise the issue with the Minister of Justice who can take it up with the RCMP. But to my knowledge I have not heard of people whose lives are in danger or that the RCMP has suggested that they’re not interested. Obviously it’s difficult to respond in a timely manner. It is a fairly long drive to the location the Member is speaking of, but I’ve never heard of the RCMP suggesting that they’re not interested or don’t want to. So if that’s the case, the Member has brought it to my attention, I can raise that with the Minister of Justice. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. The time for question period has expired. I’ll allow Mr. Hawkins a final supplementary. Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 361-15(3): Health And Safety Concerns On The Ingraham Trail

Thank you very kindly, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we still need to address the problem by this Minister, which is people are clear-cutting roads from the highway to the water there. How are we going to deal with this? How are we dealing with the garbage being littered along these areas? They’re becoming mushroom party spaces. How does this Minister plan to deal with this? This all goes back to the question that I started to ask six months ago when he said it was MACA’s problem. Now that MACA says it’s RWED’s problem, again, whose problem is this that we’re going to solve? I’m talking about Commissioner’s land. How are we going to solve the garbage, the clear-cutting problems, the people making fires on the side of the road? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 361-15(3): Health And Safety Concerns On The Ingraham Trail

If the Member is aware of specific incidents where he believes the Wildlife Act has been breached or the Forest Management Act or the Forest Protection Act, bring them to my attention if I’m the easiest point of contact, and I’ll make sure they’re investigated. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have two petitions. This is a petition signed by probably about 2,400 people petitioning against of the closure of Dene K’onia and the remand facility in Hay River.

Letters Of Support For Hay River Justice Facilities

I also would like to file another petition which is letters of support from many communities across the Northwest Territories petitioning on the same issue. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Item 13, petitions. Item 14, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 15, tabling of documents. Item 16, notices of motion. Item 17, notices of motion for first reading of bills. Item 18, motions. Item 19, first reading of bills. The honourable Minister of Finance, Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I seek with unanimous consent to proceed with first reading of Bill 19, Appropriation Act, 2005-2006.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Weledeh, that Bill 19, Appropriation Act, 2005-2006, be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. The motion is in order.

Question.

All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Weledeh, that Bill 19, Appropriation Act, 2005-2006, be read for the second time.

Mr. Speaker, this bill authorizes the Government of the Northwest Territories to make operations expenditures and capital investment expenditures for the 2005-06 fiscal year. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. The motion is in order. To the principle of the bill.

Question.

All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

I call Committee of the Whole to order. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Zoe.

Madam Chair, I move that we report progress.

There is a motion on the floor to report progress. The motion is not debatable. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

I will rise and report progress.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, your committee would like to report progress and, Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of Committee of the Whole be concurred with. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. There is a motion on the floor.

Question.