Debates of February 10, 2005 (day 33)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I’d like to pick up where I left off with my Member’s statement today and that’s in terms of the rapid growth of the public service here in the Northwest Territories and I’d like to ask the Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board, the Minister of Finance, what plan, if any, the government has to address the rapid growth of the public service here in the Northwest Territories? I stand up here today as a Yellowknife Member. I know the vast majority of the government jobs are located here in Yellowknife and, again, I wouldn’t want to say that I support massive layoffs or anything like that, I’m just talking about other things we might be able to do. Can the Minister of Finance let us know what the plan is to deal with the rapid growth of the public service? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The Minister of Finance, the Honourable Floyd Roland.

Return To Question 354-15(3): Rapid Growth In The Public Service

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as we go through our exercise as a government, looking at how we spend our money, we look at a whole lot of areas to try to ensure that we don’t spend needlessly in areas, but there’s always a call for more money in different areas, whether it’s NGOs, within government trying to be prepared for a lot of the development that’s happening. Through the normal working of each department, when they are given targets, they look internally to see what areas that they can look at reducing before they go out to other areas. So as you will see as we go through this process, there are a number of areas where vacant positions are removed by the attrition that happens within departments when positions are not being filled. So we do some of that. A large part of the growth the Member is talking about is in the area of where we’ve actually taken on positions that were non-government organization positions before and we’ve pulled them into the government workforce. So that’s one of the reasons for the growth, but I would like to emphasize that the actual numbers of growth from 1999 through 2004 are more in about the 700 position range and I do have a fair bit of detail as to how that happened and I believe I shared that with the Members in the past. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 354-15(3): Rapid Growth In The Public Service

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The numbers I am working from come from the public service annual reports from 1992 to 2003. In 1999, Mr. Speaker, it shows the GNWT having a workforce of 2,749. Today, obviously, we are knocking on the 4,500 employee mark. That’s where I am getting my numbers.

In addition to that, the total spent on salaries and benefits in 1999 was $251 million and today, a mere six years later, we are at $400 million. It is cause for concern. I would like to ask the Minister of Finance where the additional funds might come from to satisfy a new agreement with the union and the collective bargaining that’s underway. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 354-15(3): Rapid Growth In The Public Service

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, information that we provided since division that would include health boards and education boards were more in the range of 3,740 employees in March of 1999. In March of 2004, we were in the area of 4,500 people employed by the Government of the Northwest Territories. A large part of those were in the area of departmental increases, such as 14 percent of the growth in education; 51 percent of the growth in health services; and, agencies like the Housing Corporation and WCB were about 17 percent. We took in a lot of the operations that were outside of the GNWT.

We do have to watch the growth of government. We do have to keep track of that and we can’t allow ourselves to continue growing uncontrolled. That’s one of the exercises that we have entered into and that’s why you see this budget coming up having a growth of less than one percent compared to this year we are in, 2004-05. So we are doing that. Yes, we do have to be concerned and watch how the budget grows in the area of services. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 354-15(3): Rapid Growth In The Public Service

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the Minister of Finance for his reply. I wouldn’t debate with the Finance Minister that a lot of the new money that the Government of the Northwest Territories has received in the past while has gone to frontline workers, nurses, teachers and things like that. I wouldn’t debate that. It seems to me, in addition to that, when new money comes there are always new positions created or developed. I would like to caution the Finance Minister that to me and many of the residents here in the Northwest Territories, this growth rate in the public service doesn’t go unnoticed and it just continues to balloon. As I mentioned in my statement today, there is a compounding effect that at some point in time it could reach a critical proportion and it could cripple the operation that the government undertakes on a yearly basis. I would like to ask the Minister what the plan is going forward. That’s the key to this. What is the plan? What is the government’s plan on addressing this situation and trying to keep the growth rate under control? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 354-15(3): Rapid Growth In The Public Service

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, governments from time to time find themselves in a position where they have to look at broad cuts across the board. We, as well, have looked at making some reductions and have implemented reductions and also, through this process we are entering into, are entering into more of the same. At the same time, when residents of the Northwest Territories are calling on us to provide more nurses, more doctors, more teachers, more social workers and they are saying we are not able to address the needs that they are being impacted by in their communities because of the development, for example oil and gas development or the mining development, and they are asking for support, we are trying to be better positioned to help communities and individuals. At the same time, we do have to watch that growth. We don’t have, for example, a target of reducing our public service staff by 10 percent. We don’t have that. As a government, we look at all options when it comes to building a budget. Anything that’s out there, we have to look at depending on our fiscal situation. As we’ve heard in the past number of months, there are people affected by the fact that we have to look at budget reductions. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 354-15(3): Rapid Growth In The Public Service

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will keep this short. I guess I have been in this House and a Member of this Legislature for just over a year and over the course of the last year, I have seen a number of examples where the government has an opportunity to look at streamlining and saving some money and maybe putting some resources in other areas. To me, it just doesn’t seem to happen. I would like to ask the Minister of Finance when the government goes through an exercise such as centralizing human resource services and doesn’t take a look at the obvious, that being the human resource component, then what are we doing? You have been given ample opportunity to do that, but nobody seems to want to address the human resource component of it. I don’t understand why you wouldn’t go through an exercise like that and not do that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 354-15(3): Rapid Growth In The Public Service

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am one of the Members and I have had a fair bit of history with the Government of the Northwest Territories. Quite a number of years ago, we went through the exercise of huge reductions. For example, we got rid of the Department of Personnel and told departments at that time they would have to fund from within and find a way to take care of human resources within their own department. We realize now by being disjointed in that fashion that that is not working. We are not meeting the needs of our own staff, as well as those who would come to the Government of the Northwest Territories looking for services. So we’ve pulled a plan together, for example, as the Member used, the human resource service centres, and the goal is to get the job done right. Once we’ve set ourselves up and get the job done right, then we can look at if we are overstaffed. Maybe we will find we are understaffed. What we did in the past does affect how we go in the future. As I stated, at that point we got rid of one department, we told departments to fund from within and right now we are in the process of getting the job done right. Thank you.