Debates of February 11, 2005 (day 34)

Mr. Speaker, I have been very clear on that all along and I will say it again: We cannot tolerate having zero royalties stay with this government and stay with northern people. We have to have an agreement and we have to have an agreement before the pipeline proceeds. That’s the bottom line for our government and we haven’t changed our position. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would just like to follow up on my Member’s statement to the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs. In this sitting of the Assembly, I told people of Nahanni Butte I am either going to have a good news story for you or a bad news story. The way it looks, it looks like a bad news story. There is no indication of a gymnasium for Nahanni Butte. That is absolutely to say that next year we will have something for you. I would like to ask the Minister of MACA when or where can we look at this infrastructure for Nahanni Butte, Mr. Speaker? Mahsi cho.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The honourable Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. McLeod.

Return To Question 364-15(3): Gymnasium Needed In Nahanni Butte

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wish I could have some good news. Unfortunately, the budget is before us and we have yet to approve it before we will really know how much we have to put towards infrastructure. There have been a number of announcements over the last while, including the Finance Minister’s announcement yesterday, to put more money towards capital projects in the communities, both in non-tax-based and tax-based. However, that has yet to be approved. Although the federal Minister has announced how the money will be allocated by jurisdictions across Canada for the gas tax, we still haven’t signed an agreement as to the actual breakout of how the money will be distributed. We have not had the opportunity to sit down with the NWT Association of Communities to discuss how that will be divvied up amongst the communities in the Northwest Territories. We’ve just recently signed the MRIF. So there is still a lot of work before we can actually announce where the money will be spent. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Supplementary To Question 364-15(3): Gymnasium Needed In Nahanni Butte

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am well aware of some of the limitations that the Minister is faced with, but if anything can be classified as green infrastructure, it would be the gymnasium in Nahanni Butte, Mr. Speaker.

Hear! Hear!

---Applause

So I would like to ask the Minister if he could look at that and use that definition when bartering with his colleagues, Mr. Speaker. Will the Minister consider it as green infrastructure? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 364-15(3): Gymnasium Needed In Nahanni Butte

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it has been very difficult in the last many years to put recreational infrastructure in the communities and put it through the capital planning process and have it compete against water treatment plants and sewer lagoons. This year we have some new monies and we have a considerable amount compared to what we had for capital projects and infrastructure.

We certainly support recreational infrastructure being put back on the radar screen. It’s something we want to work towards as social Ministers to improve the quality of lives. So capital infrastructure, gymnasiums are all something we are considering. We are looking at the criteria and standards. We want to reach out to all communities, the larger centres and the smaller communities including Nahanni Butte, Enterprise and Kakisa, those who don’t actually have gymnasiums. We would like to be able to address those issues and whatever else is coming forward as infrastructure deficiencies. So we will be working on all those things over the next while, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Supplementary To Question 364-15(3): Gymnasium Needed In Nahanni Butte

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister announced earlier today about the ski program being a high priority. That’s something Nahanni Butte has been doing for a long time and we would like some other choices, Mr. Speaker.

---Laughter

My question for the Minister, Mr. Speaker, is the gymnasium a high priority for this government today? Mahsi cho.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 364-15(3): Gymnasium Needed In Nahanni Butte

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, active living has been a priority for this government for some time and we’ve increased the pressures on ourselves to commit more and more to stimulate that whole area. We have been focussing on the smaller communities. We have put in a multi-purpose hall in the community of Nahanni Butte. We have also been working with the community to put up a youth centre. So it’s not as if we have been ignoring the community. At this point, with our current standards and criteria, the community doesn’t have a population for a gymnasium. We want to be able to review that and move it forward as a priority and start looking at what we can do for these small communities in the North. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Your final supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Supplementary To Question 364-15(3): Gymnasium Needed In Nahanni Butte

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am surprised the Minister brings up population as one of the mitigating factors in determining which communities get a gymnasium. We all know that’s not true today. I would like the Minister to stand away from that argument and say as an identifying need this community doesn’t have this facility. In our budget, we are talking about second schools and second gymnasiums in the larger centres. I think before they get theirs, Mr. Speaker, that communities without should get those facilities and I would like the Minister to commit to that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 364-15(3): Gymnasium Needed In Nahanni Butte

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The community of Nahanni Butte has certainly made their views known. I have received a petition. I have received letters from practically every student and every youth from that community. It’s been in the media. We have heard it from the honourable Member for Nahendeh on several occasions now. We’ve gotten the message. We’ve heard it from other small communities that there has to be a new focus on recreational facilities and we intend to do that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions are for the Premier, continuing along the theme of resource development and the Mackenzie Valley pipeline. Mr. Speaker, I was really pleased to hear the Premier say that there is a realization that no, we are not ready for this project and that we have come, or at least he and his Cabinet have come close to defining some of the terms we need to see in place. That was at least specific to the pipeline that a resource revenue sharing deal must be in place before we will endorse the start of this pipeline. That is an admirable position to be in. Mr. Speaker, if we are to see this happen, we have a lot of work to do amongst ourselves. I spoke about the need for trust at all levels to be able to achieve this. What kind of measures, Mr. Speaker, is this government taking to engender and foster the trust that we need to get on with this? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. The honourable Premier, Mr. Handley.

Return To Question 365-15(3): Mackenzie Valley Pipeline Development

Yes, Mr. Speaker, we have a lot of work ahead of us in the next 18 months or so to get ready for the pipeline. I am confident that we will be there. I want to clarify it’s not just about money either. We have got environmental issues that have to be sorted out. We have training issues. We have social issues, but we have to work together to achieve that. Mr. Speaker, the issue of trust is a good question because we have to work with each other, all of us in government at all levels, NGOs, everybody, towards achieving what’s best for our people, and this pipeline presents a great opportunity.

I hope that people will work hard toward that objective and not try to stall it. In trust, we, first of all, have the Northern Strategy that we have been working on. I trust the Prime Minister when he gives me his word and he made the announcement with us on December 14th. I trust the Minister of DIAND when he comes here next month and possibly the month after, and our MP. So we built that relationship, and until they show me they shouldn’t be trusted, I trust them.

I have been meeting with the Aboriginal Summit and with regional aboriginal leaders. Our most recent meeting was a little over a week ago. We had some good discussions and we will continue to have those discussions, but when I say something at the meeting and when they say something, then we have to approach it from the point that we are all being genuine in our statements back and forth to each other.

Mr. Speaker, those have been the two main areas, but we have to work with the other non-government organizations and with training institutions and be confident that they are going to work with us. That’s how we become self-reliant people in the Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Premier. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 365-15(3): Mackenzie Valley Pipeline Development

Mr. Speaker, the Premier’s remarks are, of course, appropriate and encouraging, but I think there are things we need to do to move this along. The social agencies have been the ones who have been really at the plate trying to bring our attention to their concerns. What are we going to do to assist them in their drastically underfunded and under-resourced capacity to really be a player? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 365-15(3): Mackenzie Valley Pipeline Development

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. For starters, 70 percent of our budget of roughly $1 billion is for social programs. I don’t have a breakdown of how much of that goes to the agencies and what their priorities are and how they are going to go about achieving it. I would sure like to share that with them, as much as we have time to do it. I am sure the Ministers of the social programs will be able to give us a lot of detail, as we get into the department estimates, of where that 70 percent of the money is going. We’ve said yes and the Minister of Finance say it goes to social programs and community-level programs. Let’s work together to get some real tangible results that make a difference to people. That’s a big chunk of money. Are we going to get enough for each of the agencies that they will say don’t give us anymore, we have enough? I don’t know if we can afford that. We are dedicating a huge chunk of our budget, but it may never be quite enough for everybody. But we will make sure that we are working with the communities, municipal and band governments, the best way to get the best return for the dollars we are spending. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 365-15(3): Mackenzie Valley Pipeline Development

Mr. Speaker, the social agencies, the frontline agencies, continue to make the point to me as recently as yesterday with the budget that we are terribly under-prepared at the community level to cope with the consequences of a pipeline. This is where, I believe, we can really do something to help promote and engender the trust and preparedness at the community level. Will this government be prepared to come to their aid and do something soon?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 365-15(3): Mackenzie Valley Pipeline Development

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think you will find that we are coming to the aid of the communities and the social agencies in a big way. Seventy percent of $1 billion is a lot of money. How does that money get allocated? How is it spent? Those are things that have to be worked out with communities, with the NGOs, the social agencies. My appeal to all of the agencies and programs that work in this is we have to work together on it. We can’t sit back and criticize each other and say we aren’t going to do anything because we haven’t got enough money. We have to take the resources we have and move it as far as we can. I will continue that struggle with Ottawa. I think the Finance Minister and myself have been very successful in the last few months of getting more money for us. We have the $40 million that is there that we will receive sometime next year that the Finance Minister mentioned yesterday. Money is there, but money isn’t everything. There has to be the willingness to work together and I appeal to all of the agencies to work with us. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are for the Minister of Finance. I will pick up where my statement left off. I would like to ask some questions today on where the disconnect is between the producers, the Government of the Northwest Territories and the Leviev Group. All I see, Mr. Speaker, is the fact that the government is going to be on the hook for millions of dollars and we don’t really have any answers, Mr. Speaker. I know there have been media reports indicating that the Leviev Group didn’t meet the commercial criteria for one of our producers and was also asking for too much from the other producer, Mr. Speaker. I wonder what the Finance Minister might be able to tell us about why they didn’t meet the commercial criteria, what he knows about the criteria, that supposedly the world’s largest diamond manufacturer didn’t meet this criteria. I find that really hard to believe, Mr. Speaker. I would like the Finance Minister to try to answer those questions. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Minister of Finance, Mr. Roland.

Return To Question 366-15(3): Unsuccessful Purchase Of Diamond Plant

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I laid out the events that led up to where we are today, I pointed out that with the system that is in place, we, as a government, are involved at the front end and once we designate a potential company as a northern manufacturer, conditional on supply of rough agreements being put in place, our ability to enter into or be part of those discussions is severely limited. The discussion process for a supply of rough is between the potential northern manufacturer and the mining industry. We have agreed, Mr. Speaker, that as a government we will have to review our position and how we strengthen our position going forward. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 366-15(3): Unsuccessful Purchase Of Diamond Plant

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Again, I find it really difficult to imagine how the world’s largest diamond manufacturer could not meet the standards set out by one of our northern producers. Nobody seems to know what the Leviev Group was asking or what BHP was willing to give up. Nobody really knows. BHP says one thing, Leviev says another, and the Finance Minister can’t say anything. Where are these diamonds coming from? They are coming out of our territory here. I think we have an obligation to try to get to the bottom of this. We are losing millions of dollars, Mr. Speaker. We don’t know what we are doing. I would like to ask the Finance Minister who is responsible from this government or who was supposed to be working with the receiver to ensure that a deal was done? This government knew long ago that the deal was going to go off the tracks. Why wasn’t anything done long ago? Why are we losing millions of dollars? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 366-15(3): Unsuccessful Purchase Of Diamond Plant

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the process, as it unfolded, we started this with two operations being affected. One is back on the road and is a healthy operation. The other one is once again back into the realm of trying to find another opportunity for sale. We were hoping to bring that to a closure before Christmas. So once we realized things were not moving along, in December we started making contacts through the receiver to try to see what was going on and encourage a speedy resolution to what was happening. In the first week of January, with the information available to me, as Minister of Finance and responsible for the FMB, I had directed that a letter go out to state that our position is that there needs to be a resolution in the very near future or we would have to look at other options. We followed through with that and that is why we, once again, find ourselves in a position working with the receiver to try to find another company.

Yes, there are problems with some of our early socioeconomic agreements. We do have companies putting their side of it out in the media. From our side of it, we have to be very careful because we entered into a process with a receiver that has some consequences to it if we decide to put everything out there in the public realm. We have to do this in a way that works with our lawyers, to ensure that we continue to watch ourselves as a government and that we don’t put more money out and get into difficulties on the legal side of things. We need to be careful on that side of it. Once we get more information and do a thorough analysis of things, we will have that debate as to how we, as a government, go forward and strengthen our position to ensure that we get the best for residents in the Northwest Territories.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 366-15(3): Unsuccessful Purchase Of Diamond Plant

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the comments the Finance Minister has and I do look forward to working with him going forward. However, the government knew there were no negotiations going on. We had a potential purchaser. I would like to question why even have a tender process if, at the end of the day, the diamond mining companies here in the Northwest Territories are going to dictate who they are going to do business with? Why would we even go through a process like that? We should have saved ourselves the subsequent embarrassment and not even go through that process if, at the end of the day, we are going to take the diamond mining company's word on who they are going to sell diamonds to. What are we talking about here? I find it really hard to believe that we are here today, we are on the hook for millions of dollars and nobody really wants to take responsibility for it. I find that difficult to believe. I would like to ask the Finance Minister today, when do we think we are going to let the public know and the Members on this side of the House know what exactly that Sirius plant and the government’s inability to get a deal done with the Leviev Group and the producers is going to cost the taxpayers here in the Northwest Territories? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 366-15(3): Unsuccessful Purchase Of Diamond Plant

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The process, as it would unfold, is to sell the facility as a going operation so that it remains in business. Once we have that done and a final working of the numbers between that settlement and what it has cost us, we will be coming back, as the rules of this House apply, and make it known to Members and the public what it cost us. It will have to come through a supplementary appropriation as we go forward. It will come back to this House and it will be public as to the actual losses, once we have the deal concluded. We are hopeful we can still get a deal as a going concern, but as time goes on, we will have to decide if we have to go the other road and say it is no longer in the best interest for us to try to make something like this happen. We are hopeful that we can still get it sold as a going concern. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Your final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 366-15(3): Unsuccessful Purchase Of Diamond Plant

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my underlying theme here is the Government of the Northwest Territories did not have to look at losing millions of dollars. I wonder if the Finance Minister today could make a commitment to try to find out exactly what went wrong with this deal and why the Government of the Northwest Territories is going to be on the hook for millions of dollars in this deal.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 366-15(3): Unsuccessful Purchase Of Diamond Plant

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as this has unfolded, and I have committed to Members in this House, we will go back and look at what has occurred and where we strengthen our position as the Government of the Northwest Territories. For me, and this government, the 15th Assembly, it’s difficult to go back to when the original agreements were put in place, to what caused the government-of-the-day to decide that was the best agreement that could be put in place and the MOU that followed. Unfortunately, as will the next government, they will have to live with some of our decisions we make today. Now we have to go back -- and that's why I said the timing is good for us -- so we can go back now, look at these agreements and see what we need to do to strengthen our position as a government to make sure that we, as residents of the Northwest Territories, benefit from the development of non-renewable resources within our territory. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question today is addressed to the Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger, and it is regarding the medical services in the Sahtu, especially for the people in Colville Lake. Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the government's support in terms of assisting with the set-up of the Sahtu Health Board Authority in our region. However, in the meantime, the people of Colville Lake are worried about the health services they are receiving today. There was a doctor's visit scheduled for Colville Lake; however, there were mechanical problems and the doctor couldn't get into Colville Lake. So they are very concerned that this kind of situation will continue and they won't be able to see a doctor for a while. Can the Minister assure the people of Colville Lake that no matter what, a doctor will come into Colville Lake and see them? Otherwise, it will be another six months or so before a doctor gets into Colville Lake. Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Return To Question 367-15(3): Medical Services In Colville Lake