Debates of February 11, 2005 (day 34)

Mr. Speaker, I certainly agree that our youth today will be adults of tomorrow. I will look at our process, our standards and criteria that we use as a guideline, and we will be moving forward with a plan to address infrastructure in the smaller communities and put more emphasis on the recreation. We are hearing it from the Members on the other side and we certainly take it as direction. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 369-15(3): Gymnasium Needed In Nahanni Butte

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I could almost see like a candle of light starting there. There wasn’t a flashlight or a big beam, but I could feel the warmth of light. You are lighting the path in the right direction. Mr. Speaker, we are getting a whole whack of dollars for infrastructure money. I don’t have to talk about how much; this is the right Minister to talk to though. Will he use his power to create a policy that helps some of those infrastructure dollars to address this problem? Mr. Speaker, I want to hear him take control of his department and take control of this problem. Will he help the youth? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 369-15(3): Gymnasium Needed In Nahanni Butte

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we have been focused on the youth in terms of our initiatives over the last while; we will continue to do so. I certainly will heed to the direction provided by the Members over the recreation facility issue in the smaller communities. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 369-15(3): Gymnasium Needed In Nahanni Butte

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am hearing the warmth from that cold Minister over there on the books; finally. It’s good to see that, thank you.

Mr. Speaker, these directives can be done today. I want to hear this Minister say today he’s got the power that we will work to make this initiative within this capital budget, within the next five years, we can do this. Show some leadership, Mr. Speaker, because that little gymnasium is the heart of a community. It’s a community centre, it’s for gathering places like tea dances; my colleague over here just said it is the heart of the community. Will the Minister seriously agree to look into this problem today and see if we can adjust it within our five-year capital plan, so that the people of Nahanni who are without a gymnasium can have that problem solved? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 369-15(3): Gymnasium Needed In Nahanni Butte

Mr. Speaker, it has always been in our plans to have consultation with all communities to see what their needs are. Our process allows for that. We want to be able to hear from all of the communities before I commit to taking one program, one project in our 20-year needs and moving it forward. We would like to review all the projects that are out there and then make a decision based on fairness and need. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, would like to talk about the pipeline discussions that went on this morning on CBC Radio. I found it very interesting this morning when people were calling in, and I think the majority of the callers were in favour of the pipeline. On the one hand, in the Finance Minister’s statement yesterday, he indicated that the government is in support of the Mackenzie Valley pipeline. I think that’s working in the right direction. On the other hand, the problem we are having, Mr. Speaker, is we are still talking about resource revenue sharing. On one hand, the government supports the program of the Mackenzie Valley pipeline and on the other hand, you say unless we get the resource revenue sharing agreement in place, the government will not approve this. What direction are you showing the people of the Northwest Territories? In my region, the Inuvialuit are progressive people and they are looking forward to developments like this. Can the Premier indicate whether we are in support of it or not? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak. The honourable Premier, Mr. Handley.

Return To Question 370-15(3): Conditions For Pipeline Development

Mr. Speaker, we support the pipeline. We need the pipeline, I believe, to have a strong economy. But our support is not unconditional. There are conditions on it in the same way with the Inuvialuit, the Gwich’in, the Sahtu, everybody is negotiating benefit and access agreements and we support them in doing that. I know their support is not unconditional. They are not going to say come and take the oil and gas, we don’t need any agreements, we don’t need any more benefits. Our position is the same as theirs. We have conditions on environment, conditions in terms of social issues, conditions on the financial side. We do not want to see, over the next 20 years, $50 to $70 billion in government revenues from development go south and we are left there with a few short-term benefits. So, yes, we have conditions on it and I believe they are achievable and I am confident that our Prime Minister is determined to be fair with us on this issue. I am not at all even thinking that the pipeline will be stopped because of resource revenue sharing, because I believe strongly that we can achieve that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Supplementary, Mr. Pokiak.

Supplementary To Question 370-15(3): Conditions For Pipeline Development

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Right now, there is a joint review panel doing an assessment of the documents provided by Imperial Oil. There is a process going on right now, Mr. Speaker. NEB is doing their own review of the socioeconomics of the program. Are we moving too fast to say yes or no? Can we just let the joint review panel do their work, the NEB do their work, at the same time we, as government, can sit down and iron out socioeconomic agreements without resource revenue sharing? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak. Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 370-15(3): Conditions For Pipeline Development

Mr. Speaker, as I said earlier, there is a lot of work to be done over the next 18 months or two years by one of the review committees, on socioeconomic benefits, environmental or technical issues, before a recommendation is made to the federal government to approve or not approve this pipeline. We have a lot of work to do. I think a lot of this work has to happen at the same time. We don’t want to slow down the pipeline. The gas is needed in the South. We need the revenues. We need the economic activity. We don’t want industry to turn somewhere else, to Alaska, as an alternative, and leave us sitting here with nothing happening. So we have to move ahead at the same time.

We are actively negotiating the resource revenue sharing and devolution as a requirement. We are negotiating the socioeconomic agreement. The regional governments, aboriginal governments, are negotiating their benefit and access agreements and the pipeline company is going through the environmental and technical review stages. So all of that happens at the same time. At the same time, we also have to look at social impacts and maybe do some adjustments of our programs. We have to look at training. So we have a very, very busy 18 months to two years here. I don’t think we can solve one problem and then the next one and then the next one, otherwise we will still be talking 30 years from now. We have to roll up our sleeves and work on all these fronts at the same time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of MACA. I would just like to quote from the Finance Minister’s budget speech. His last line, Mr. Speaker, states: “It is up to the leaders of the Northwest Territories to light the path and lead the way.” Lead the way!

Lead the way!

For me, what that means, Mr. Speaker, is if we identify a need, we must address it. Here is a need that needs addressing. I would like the Minister to address it and tell me what he’s going to do about fulfilling this need. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The honourable Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. McLeod.

Return To Question 371-15(3): Gymnasium Needed In Nahanni Butte

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am assuming the need he’s talking about is the gymnasium in Nahanni Butte.

----Laughter

Mr. Speaker, there is a lot of need across the board. We have to recognize that there is still considerable demand for investment in our water and sewer programs. We have had, in the last while, guidelines set with the federal government as to how we are going to deal with water, how we are going to deal with waste water. We have to make sure we can invest in those things. Some of the dollars that are flowing forward from the federal government come with criteria attached to where we can spend them. We have some flexibility in our budget for building a baseline for communities to decide where they want to invest in the communities. I want to be able to hear from the communities. I want to be able to have some consultation before I decide, and that will light the way for us to move forward. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Supplementary To Question 371-15(3): Gymnasium Needed In Nahanni Butte

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We heard today about the Tlicho having a reason to tea dance and what I would like to do is give Nahanni a place to tea dance, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

---Laughter

Mr. Speaker, can the Minister tell me what options they are looking at to develop a gymnasium for Nahanni Butte in the near future? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 371-15(3): Gymnasium Needed In Nahanni Butte

Mr. Speaker, we are currently, and will be over the next while, having discussions with the communities as to their needs. We want them to be able to bring those forward. We want to be able to have a good discussion around that. We still have a commitment that I have made and our department has been honouring; to deal with the NWT Association of Communities, to deal with LGANT, the Local Governors Association of the Northwest Territories, and consider their input. We recognize there is a need in the small communities for recreation infrastructure. There is recreation infrastructure in larger and medium-sized communities. There are infrastructure needs in the tax-based communities also. We need to be able to accommodate all those things.

I am not in a position to commit, as the Member is asking, to stand up here and say yes, we are going to do this. I don’t think it would be fair to all the other communities. We want to be able to consider all the priorities in terms of communities. We want to be able to hear from them. We have made a commitment as part of the new deal that communities will be able to decide where they want to go. Right now, it has been difficult because of our limited budget, but we have now created a base and will be looking at deciding how we will spend that money in the next while. I need the opportunity to have more discussion on it. I am not in a position right now to commit to one project. Once that is all decided, we will certainly share it with all the Members here. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The time for question period has expired, however, I will allow you a supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Supplementary To Question 371-15(3): Gymnasium Needed In Nahanni Butte

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Indeed, that’s the tone of a letter the Minister wrote to the principal in Nahanni Butte; that the department is not in a position to support the development of a gymnasium through their capital budgeting process in the immediate future, and that’s very disheartening, Mr. Speaker. Have a heart, Mr. Speaker.

Have a heart!

That’s what I would like to say for the people and the youth of Nahanni Butte. Will the Minister look at changing his mind and address these needs in the immediate future? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 371-15(3): Gymnasium Needed In Nahanni Butte

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to reassure the Member that I do have a heart.

---Laughter

I also want to point out that the letter that was drafted to the community of Nahanni Butte was drafted before we had approval for additional dollars to put towards our capital plan. So now that circumstances have changed, we have to look at our criteria and we have to be able to consult with the community. So I would like to request that the Members bear with us until we develop a plan of how we are going to expend that money. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Your final supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Supplementary To Question 371-15(3): Gymnasium Needed In Nahanni Butte

Well, I am very pleased to hear that the Minister has a heart, Mr. Speaker. In all seriousness, that’s what I would like to see. The plan for a gymnasium in Nahanni Butte is so far off in the future, it’s just unrealistic because the need for the gymnasium is for today, Mr. Speaker. I would like to get the Minister’s commitment that he will work hard and try to get a facility for that particular community in the near future. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 371-15(3): Gymnasium Needed In Nahanni Butte

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Member has asked if I would work hard. I think we work hard every day.

Hear! Hear!

I will take the request to consider the recreational facilities in the small communities. It’s an issue that has generated a lot of discussion over the last while and it has been something that has been put on the back burner for a considerable amount of time as our budget for capital has been reduced. Over the next while, we may have an opportunity to do something about it. We would like to be able to have a good, thorough discussion over it. I will commit to making sure that Nahanni Butte, Gameti, Enterprise, Kakisa and Detah and all these communities are all part of the discussion.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Time for question period has expired. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to go back to item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to recognize a former constituent of mine, Ms. Winnie Blake from Tsiigehtchic, who now lives in southern Canada.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question today is for the Minister of Finance. Can the Minister provide the following information:

What is the total annual consumption of alcoholic beverages in the Northwest Territories?

What is the total annual consumption of alcohol beverages in the Sahtu region?

What are the total revenues of alcoholic beverages in the Sahtu and the Northwest Territories?

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My written question is for the Premier of the Northwest Territories.

How many northern Teacher Education Program students have completed education programs since the Premier’s office made the commitment to hire all students who have successfully completed the Teacher Education Program?

Of the graduates, how many are currently employed as teachers in the North?

Further, will the Premier please explain, in detail, what the incentives are that he referred to in the Unedited Hansard, pages 2604 to 2605, on February 10, 2005, to encourage education authorities to hire northern graduates?

What does the Premier mean when he commented on increasing these incentives to address this problem?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Item 7, written questions. Item 8, returns to written questions. Item 9, replies to opening address. Item 10, replies to the budget address. Item 11, petitions. Before we go into the next item on the order paper, the Chair is going to call a short break.

---SHORT RECESS

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. At this time, I'd like to read the report of the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight. First I will introduce the members of the committee, which are chair, Kevin Menicoche; myself, Robert Hawkins, deputy chair; Bill Braden, Great Slave; Jane Groenewegen; Sandy Lee; Calvin Pokiak; David Ramsay; Robert Villeneuve; Norman Yakeleya; and the new Member, Robert McLeod.

Our staff are Doug Schauerte, Colette Langlois and Darha Phillpot.

Mr. Speaker, the standing committees of the Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories met from January 10 to 21, 2005, to review the 2005-2006 Draft Main Estimates for each of the departments of the Government of the Northwest Territories.

The mandate of the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight includes the overview of the draft main estimates for the departments of the Executive, the Ministry of aboriginal Affairs, the Financial Management Board Secretariat and Finance.

The Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight has also offered opinions and recommendations on issues brought forward by the Standing Committee on Social Programs and the Standing Committee on Governance and Economic Development that are deemed to be of government-wide importance.

On December 14, 2004, Prime Minister Paul Martin, together with the Premiers of the three northern territories, announced a framework for the first-ever jointly developed Northern Strategy. The announcement included a commitment for an additional $120 million of federal funding to be divided equally among the three territories.

During the review of the 2005-2006 Draft Main Estimates, the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight had an opportunity to speak with the Premier about the Northern Strategy initiative and the GNWT’s plans for implementation. The Premier advised that over the coming months consultation will take place with NWT leaders, stakeholders, and the Caucus of the Legislative Assembly to confirm pan-territorial and NWT-specific priorities, so as to ensure the final Northern Strategy reflects the views of the people of the NWT.

Members are pleased with the announcement of the Northern Strategy initiative and the corresponding $40 million allocation of new federal funding for the NWT. Given the importance of the NWT’s economic activities to the national economy, Members are of the opinion that it is time for the Prime Minister to honour his personal commitment that the North receive tangible, positive net benefit from further development of the North’s resources. Members point out that NWT economic growth between 1999 and 2003 was 46.2 percent compared to an overall average of only 12.7 percent nationwide during the same period.

When compared to the other territories, the NWT’s economic performance is also exceptional. The NWT experienced 10.6 percent real GDP growth in 2003 while the overall growth rate for Canada was at 1.7 percent. Over the same period, the GDP for Nunavut and the Yukon was 1.5 percent and 0.2 percent respectively. Estimates for 2004 follow similar trends. Given that the high level of economic activity in the NWT far exceeds that of the other two territories, Members are concerned that the specific needs of the NWT will not be met by a strategy intended to address issues of concern to the North as a whole. Members are of the opinion that the Northern Strategy will not meet the needs of the NWT unless the unique economic situation in the NWT is recognized.

The Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight recommends that the Government of the Northwest Territories take an extremely aggressive and clearly defined stance in negotiations with the federal government to ensure that the federal government acknowledges the particular opportunities and needs that result from the Northwest Territories’ strong economy.

The GNWT endeavours to maintain a workable fiscal framework that balances cash needs against manageable debt. In so doing, the Department of Finance struggles with the cap set by the federal government on the GNWT’s allowable borrowing limit, or, what has been termed "the debt wall." The borrowing limit for the GNWT is arbitrarily set at $300 million by Order in Council of the federal cabinet.

During the review of the 2005-2006 Draft Main Estimates, the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight noted that revenue forecasts have improved significantly as a result of a number of developments over the last six months, including improvements to the NWT’s Formula Financing Agreement, and additional federal funding in the areas of health care, the Northern Strategy, and infrastructure. The new infusion of federal dollars, coupled with government spending reductions, means that there is now no immediate fear of hitting the debt wall. Nonetheless, Members were pleased to hear that the government has proactively moved forward with a new fiscal responsibility policy.

The Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight offers strong support for the government’s efforts to advance the new fiscal responsibility policy. The committee is of the opinion that it is a positive step to move away from the arbitrarily established debt limit set by the federal government and to establish a conservative, easily understood policy that ties debt limits to economic indicators such as the NWT’s GDP. Not only is this consistent with practices in other jurisdictions, but moreover it places responsibility on the GNWT to be accountable for its own debt management. Members are extremely pleased that the new fiscal responsibility policy, should the federal government support it, will enable additional borrowing leverage for the GNWT to make critical capital investments in the coming years.

The Territorial Power Subsidy Program, also known as the TPSP, assists residential and commercial customers in high cost communities by paying the difference between the Yellowknife power rate and the local rate up to a maximum number of kilowatt hours per month.

The Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight was pleased to note that the government has been looking at changes to the TPSP and that the Financial Management Board has decided to compensate for rate riders in the program. This is intended to alleviate the burden of rising fuel costs in communities dependent upon diesel-generated power.

For 2005-2006 the TPSP is estimated at $8.307 million, a zero percent increase from the 2004-2005 Main Estimates. According to the Minister, this takes into account the estimated $650,000 increase associated with the decision to absorb rate riders in the Territorial Power Subsidy Program.

Some members of the standing committee were concerned that this may be an overly optimistic projection. The subsidy has increased by nearly $3 million since the 2001-2002 fiscal year, when the subsidy program cost $5.419 million. Although world oil prices are down from the record highs witnessed last fall, there is no consensus among experts that they will remain at current lower levels. As long as oil prices remain high and power consumption continues to climb, Members do not foresee a stabilization of the program and are concerned that the government will come back for funding by way of supplementary appropriations.

Some Members were also perplexed at why the government would step in now with this short-term measure when the entire field of GNWT social subsidies and supports, such as the TPSP is just one of 17 across seven departments, is currently under review.

Members representing communities that are not included in the TPSP, such as Yellowknife, Hay River, Fort Smith, Rae-Edzo and Fort Resolution, also asked whether their communities will also be spared when anticipated rate riders come into effect for their power systems sometime in the spring of 2005. The committee urges the government to clarify that its rate rider rescue program will be universally applied to all power customers across the NWT.

Mr. Speaker, at this time, my colleague, Mr. Menicoche, will finish the committee report. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.