Debates of February 14, 2005 (day 35)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I’d like to ask some more questions to Mr. Dent about the national childcare debate that’s going on and the meetings that he attended over the weekend. Mr. Speaker, lest there be any opinion out there that we have this huge functioning child day care program in the NWT given the Minister’s answers earlier, I think it should be a very clear understanding that we don’t have that. What we have is a very basic minimum, income tested day care subsidy. I don’t know if anybody has noticed the careful skating around that the Minister did in answering my question when I asked him how much money we spend on day care. He said we spend millions on early childcare, which is not the same thing, Mr. Speaker. I noticed that and I’m sure the good ears out there have, too.

So, Mr. Speaker, I just want to ask the Minister how much money we’re actually spending on day care in the North; or childcare, as we define them in a narrow sense. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. The Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 380-15(3): NWT Child Care Spending

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, if we’re talking just about day cares, I can answer the question. In terms of 2004-05, the funding for early childhood programming is $1.989 million. It’s important to remember that the program that we’re talking about with the federal government is not for day care. It is an Early Learning and Childcare Program that they are interested in investing in. This is not just aimed at day cares. It’s quite clear from the federal point of view that that’s not what this is about. We are working together to try to come up with a system that improves on early learning opportunities for children across all of Canada.

I wasn’t trying to skate around the issue with the Member. I was trying to make sure that everybody understood is that every province and territory is at a different place right now. The goal of the federal contribution is to help all of us improve on where we are. The federal government isn’t offering, with $5 billion, enough for all of us to come up even with what Quebec is offering right now. I did say Quebec is offering what is seen clearly in Canada as the best system. There’s no way with what’s going into this program that across Canada we could achieve that. The goal is to make sure that we have the same vision, the same goals, and that we agree that we’re trying to accomplish many of the same things across Canada, and the federal government will contribute to help improve on what we’re doing now. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 380-15(3): NWT Child Care Spending

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I don’t believe that I disagree with the elements of what the Minister has said. I do believe that this is a debate larger than just day care, as in babysitting or day care units. I am glad that the federal government and provincial governments are engaged in bigger discussions overall about what we as a society and the government is prepared to do in terms of taking care of our children and how much funding and the role that the government can play. I think that the Quebec model is an example that we should try to follow to the extent as much as possible.

I guess, Mr. Speaker, maybe I should just ask how much is the Minister talking about? He mentioned earlier that the federal government formula, as it’s presented now, amounts to…The Minister suggested that he’s asking for .51 percent. What would that work out to in dollars if he gets that plus base funding or plus per capita? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 380-15(3): NWT Child Care Spending

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the base funding that the small jurisdictions are seeking would amount to $5 million a year each. That would be over and above the per capita. If we were to get straight per capita money…and again, this is if the money were flowing at $1 billion a year. We know it likely won’t; there will be a number of things that come out of this money, so we’re probably not talking about $5 billion in total that will be split between the provinces and territories. But if it were $1 billion for any one year that was being split between all the provinces and territories, the amount that this territory would see from per capita funding would be somewhere between $1 million and $1.3 million. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 380-15(3): NWT Child Care Spending

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As the questions and answers on this topic suggest already, there are so many things about this program and this debate that we need to know and talk about. I’d like to know from the Minister if you could advise us as to who is advising him about what the GNWT’s position is. Has he done consultation with the stakeholders out there? This has been pretty quiet until he snuck up in the national media and he went to Vancouver over the weekend. Where is he getting his position from? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 380-15(3): NWT Child Care Spending

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we’re not talking about redesigning the program yet because we have no idea what sort of money we’re talking about or what the deal is going to look like that we sign with the federal government for the money to flow to us. Not until we know what sort of emphasis we sign on to with this agreement, but we’re starting to get a better understanding. As I told the Member in a previous series of questions, the provinces, territories and federal government have moved the wording in the agreement quite a ways along, but there are some people who are not satisfied with it. As recently as today, Ontario is in the Globe and Mail saying that they want a bilateral deal. They don’t want to sign the same deal as everybody else. Alberta has proposed that, as has Quebec. We’re not sure yet where we’re going to end up with this or what exactly the deal is going to look like with the federal government. Until we do, we don’t know what we can move forward on here. We think we’re starting to get a clear understanding, but when we know what the money is, then we’ll have the problem of deciding how to spend it and that will involve some degree of consultation. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Your final supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 380-15(3): NWT Child Care Spending

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I know the Minister means well, but I’m not sure I agree with his approach and the government’s approach on how they’re going about it in terms of speaking about the GNWT’s position at the national table on childcare or day care or early childhood education or however we want to phrase this. I don’t think it’s the proper thing to just go and say we’ll see what the federal government is asking or we’ll see where we end up. I think we’ll have a better chance of getting it where you want to, if you know where you want to be before you start. So I’d like to know from the Minister if you could make a commitment to make appropriate consultation with those who are involved in this and to also provide the Members of this House in writing about where the government’s position is so far in this debate. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 380-15(3): NWT Child Care Spending

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I could have an open consultative process, but at the end of the day there may be no deal. We would spend the money on a consultation without knowing if we’re even going to get one dollar to spend on this program. At this point, until we see the money in the budget, we don’t know the terms and conditions or when it’s going to come down. So, no, I’m not prepared to advance the prospect of going out on a consultation to try and find out how we should spend this. Because of the nature of the agreement, I can’t even share with the public what the draft is right now. We’ve been told that there’s no deal until everybody agrees on the points of the deal. So I don’t have a lot of detail that I can take out to talk about.

The federal government has come to the table for the first time ever and said we’re prepared to invest in early learning and childcare. They’ve advanced a number of conditions and positions and we’re at the table saying hey, we want some money. This is a good deal. This is the first time ever that they’ve come to the table like this. It’s a great opportunity. But because it’s their money, they get to set the details out. So we’re waiting to find out what those are, and then we’ll try and work our program to fit around what they insist on. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.