Debates of February 15, 2005 (day 36)

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The Minister of Justice, Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 383-15(3): Young Offenders Sentenced To Custody

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, for young offenders who are sentenced to custody through the courts, there has always been a range of options. One is if they’re sentenced to the secure custody facility here in Yellowknife; it’s available to house them. Typically what happens to offenders who are sentenced to secure custody, they go through that facility into an open custody facility and then move on into either a camp or a residential home. The goal is to try and integrate young offenders back into the community and move them as quickly as possible into a residential setting. What has happened is, with the numbers in custody over the last couple of years, we have a very limited number in open custody. Last week when I checked, we had six males in open custody, I believe, and with two facilities we couldn’t justify keeping them both open. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 383-15(3): Young Offenders Sentenced To Custody

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, so you had two facilities: one completely staffed up with experienced people, operational; another one just finished being constructed, not staffed up, obviously newer people in those positions. What was the determining factor that made the choice between the two facilities to be that Yellowknife would be a facility open for open custody young offenders and that Hay River would be closed? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 383-15(3): Young Offenders Sentenced To Custody

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. One of the reasons, Mr. Speaker, was that the facility in Yellowknife is a combined facility. One half of it is for secure custody and the other is open custody. Because it is the only secure custody facility in the Northwest Territories, we can’t close the facility down. So the level of savings that could be achieved by not operating the open side were not nearly the same as what could be achieved by closing a facility down completely. That was one of the reasons. The other was just the fact, as the Member noted, that one was newer than the other, and the issue of programming is one that the facility has been operating for nearly two years now in Yellowknife. The programming is of a similar nature to that offered at Dene K’onia and we can offer the same types of programming. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 383-15(3): Young Offenders Sentenced To Custody

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Minister has indicated previously that the number of young people who are sentenced to open custody facilities has been reduced by new legislation that has come into place with respect to youth justice. At this time, the populations and the numbers are lower; the census is lower than it has been in the past. Does the Minister not see this as a temporary situation and, if he did see this as a temporary situation, what’s the contingency plan for when those numbers come up again after you’ve dismantled this key piece of infrastructure? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 383-15(3): Young Offenders Sentenced To Custody

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, if we look at all of the young offenders facilities that we have or the spaces that we have for young offenders right now, we’re not anywhere near 50 percent occupancy. It will take some time before we get up to a level where we expect that we would need these facilities again. Whether it’s two years, five years or 10 years, I can’t predict how long it’s going to be before we need more facilities. I would hope that we never need more facilities, but, if we do, then we can deal with that through either the provision of homes for young offenders, which is one of the preferred options. If necessary, we can even look at building a group home, which may be another option, and it was something that the Department of Justice proposed two or three years ago to replace Dene K’onia with in Hay River. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 383-15(3): Young Offenders Sentenced To Custody

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, so is the Minister saying that if the group home facility had been built in Hay River, that we would have an open custody facility operating in Hay River today? Because I look at the young offenders at Dene K’onia and it’s a very similar layout and building type to any group home that I’ve ever seen. So when the Minister brings that up, is it to say that if they had built that facility that it would be open and operating today, and that with Dene K’onia we would not have seen the complete loss of this facility and these jobs in Hay River? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 383-15(3): Young Offenders Sentenced To Custody

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No, that wasn’t the intent when I said that. I have no way of knowing what might have happened if there were different facilities in place. We’ve worked entirely on what was in place. My point was that a group home is not an expensive facility to build. It doesn’t need to have security. It’s basically a family home type of setting. So it is something that isn’t expensive to add to the inventory if it’s ever needed, in comparison to a facility like the open custody facility we have here in Yellowknife. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in my Member’s statement today I talked about the winter road in the Sahtu, the goat road we have up in the Sahtu. I think I’m going to ask some questions to the Minister. The Minister is aware of the concerns. He was in the Sahtu several times and has seen the road conditions. An official of his office made a commitment at a public meeting in the Sahtu several weeks ago, to travel that winter road and to make an assessment of the conditions. My question is for the Minister of Transportation. Will the Minister please provide the results of the recent assessment of the winter road in the Sahtu? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The honourable Minister of Transportation, Mr. McLeod.

Return To Question 384-15(3): State Of Winter Roads In The Sahtu Region

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I want to make it clear that we don’t provide funding for goat trails. We do, however, maintain the Mackenzie Valley winter road, and there has been concern raised over the section from Tulita to Norman Wells. We did have a number of meetings over the last while with the MLA and also with the community of Norman Wells, and we’ve had some written correspondence over the issue. We have looked at the condition of the road. We realize that we do not have the same level of maintenance and investment in this road as we had when we partnered up with industry for the last couple of years. We continue to do so in other sections. The Wrigley to Tulita road we have industry investing dollars there, and it has brought the road to a higher standard than we normally would maintain it; and also from Norman Wells to Colville Lake and Fort Good Hope. The conditions are a lot better than they normally are. We have increased our maintenance. We have looked at the road and we have decided that we should increase the maintenance on this road. We’re also reviewing our plans in terms of if our funding allocation for this section is still adequate, considering we don’t have a key player or industry investing in this section anymore. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Supplementary To Question 384-15(3): State Of Winter Roads In The Sahtu Region

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Minister touched on a key point of our winter roads and I hope that our goat road does become an acceptable highway system in the Northwest Territories. But the industry has used our winter roads quite a bit and, as you know, Mr. Speaker, It takes between 80 and 90 truckloads to haul a rig here and that we need to get the industry involved. I want to ask the Minister if he could please explain why the department is unable to reach an agreement with the industry, thus leaving the GNWT solely responsible for the cost of maintenance of the road even though it’s being used a lot by industry. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 384-15(3): State Of Winter Roads In The Sahtu Region

Mr. Speaker, we do have discussions with industry on a regular basis. We have had a number of discussions over this past winter and previous winters but, at the end of the day, we cannot force industry to invest in a road that they’re not likely to use. In this case, the road from Tulita to Norman Wells is not one that industry felt they were going to be using for the majority of the rig moves. A lot of the rigs were moved over last winter into Norman Wells or over the summer on the barging system. So there was no requirement for them to invest money and upgrade this road, so it fell under our responsibility to maintain this road with our dollars that were budgeted.

Again, we have looked at a number of initiatives to see if we can improve the safety factors on this road. After several discussions with the people in the communities of Tulita, Norman Wells and the people of the Sahtu, we have allocated and budgeted for signs. We’re putting a number of signs on that road. I believe the number is 650 signs that we’re going to be putting up and are putting up as we speak to improve the safety factor. We’re also setting up a series of meetings and we’re going to be unveiling or having discussions about the possibility of instituting a speed limit on that road to improve the safety factor. We have also increased our highway patrols into that area and we continue to do so.

There are a number of initiatives that we have provided for this section of road. If there is still a concern regarding the condition, I want to assure the Member that we are looking at the allocated maintenance budget for this road. However, upon our inspections -- and we do them regularly; our highway superintendent performs them regularly -- they tell us the road is safe, provided you drive at a safe speed limit and you obey all the signs that are being put up right now. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Holy cow!

Supplementary To Question 384-15(3): State Of Winter Roads In The Sahtu Region

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the phone call I received this afternoon said that motorists are going about 20 kilometres an hour on the roads in the Sahtu. That’s how bad they are. Also, the safety, Mr. Speaker, is a concern because I lost a close personal friend on that road several years ago with regard to the safety. I want to ask the Minister what he will do to ensure some type of negotiations for partnerships with industry for next year, to ensure there is much done to improve the winter roads in the Sahtu. I know you’re not able to force industry, but I think if you can assure the people in the Sahtu that some sort of partnership can be formed with them to ensure that the safety and conditions of the road are just like any other road in the territory. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 384-15(3): State Of Winter Roads In The Sahtu Region

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it should be clear that for most of the sections in the Sahtu area, the safety factor and the conditions have increased drastically as we now have industry investing in those sections. There is only one section of the road that is of concern that we’ve been hearing about and that’s the section from Tulita to Norman Wells. We have increased and doubled our maintenance on that road, we’ve provided signs, we’re going to incorporate speed limits, we’re sending contract crews out, and we’re actually doing some specific spotting on that road. We’ve looked at the bypass in the Norman Wells area. We’ve done a number of things. We’re also planning to spend $34 million in that area. How many more things can we incorporate? I’m not sure, but I want to assure the Member again that we are looking at this section of road; we are looking at our budget to see if we can do anything different for next year. We’ll continue to talk with industry; however, we can’t force them to spend money in an area that they’re not using. I will certainly commit to having those discussions with industry and keep up the pressure to help us pay for some of those roads and improve the conditions. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

A very short supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Running the clock.

Supplementary To Question 384-15(3): State Of Winter Roads In The Sahtu Region

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, industry, I understand, spends millions and millions of dollars in the Sahtu. They want to come do business in the Sahtu. They’re using the roads. I think that’s part of where our government can negotiate with industry and say that they should bring some benefits and bring in some of the safety into the Sahtu. So I guess I would ask the Minister if he would look at coming to visit the Sahtu and see the conditions of the winter roads for himself. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. A short answer, Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 384-15(3): State Of Winter Roads In The Sahtu Region

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Sahtu is probably one of the regions that I’ve visited the most often in the last year as the Minister. I’ve been there three times and we’re planning to go there again. We are, along with the Premier, planning to drive the winter road all the way to Norman Wells in the next couple of weeks. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I’ll pick up where I left off with my statement. That is questions regarding the Deton’Cho access to the area known as the sandpits here in the city of Yellowknife, within the municipal boundaries of the city of Yellowknife. The first question I’d like to ask the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs is how that decision was arrived at. I’m wondering if the decision to grant access to the sandpits was a decision made solely by the Minister of MACA or was it a Cabinet decision. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. McLeod.

Return To Question 385-15(3): Deton’Cho Access To Sandpits Land

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, that decision was made by myself as the Minister of MACA. We’ve had some discussion with Aboriginal Affairs; however, that decision was mine. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 385-15(3): Deton’Cho Access To Sandpits Land

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to ask the Minister today how close Deton’Cho Corporation is to actually proceeding with the housing development at the area known as the sandpits here in the city of Yellowknife. I know under the agreement that he’s given permission for it to July 31st, but through reputable sources, Mr. Speaker, they’re very close to proceeding with a 400-unit housing development at the sandpits and I’d like to ask the Minister what information he has with regard to that development. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 385-15(3): Deton’Cho Access To Sandpits Land

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m not sure how close they are to proceeding with development. Our involvement has been to try and facilitate a process dealing with lands in Yellowknife. There has been an application made to the City of Yellowknife for a section of land in the sandpits area. We’ve had some discussions with the Yellowknives Dene. We’ve also had some discussions with the City of Yellowknife. We’ve indicated to those groups that we needed to see all the development plans come forward because, along with the City of Yellowknife development plan, we have the Yellowknives Dene First Nation’s development plan, the Department of Transportation has an airport development plan, and we have the Akaitcho land claim negotiations land selections going on. So all these things are in the process, in the works. There’s a lot of overlap. We’re trying to develop a system that will allow us to process some of these applications. I know that the City of Yellowknife and the Yellowknives were meeting. I believe their staff were meeting yesterday. The City of Yellowknife wants to have a discussion and hear their presentation with their counsel on what the Yellowknives are planning to do. That application has not come to us, Mr. Speaker. They’re having some discussions between the City of Yellowknife and the Yellowknives and they’re reviewing a number of things, including how this would fit with the City of Yellowknife’s development plans, including the zoning. So there are a number of things that need to be discussed and, up until now, the only thing we’ve done is to allow the Yellowknives access to the sandpits area to do some geophysical work and do some engineering studies and that’s the limit of our involvement, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 385-15(3): Deton’Cho Access To Sandpits Land

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I’m glad to hear that the Minister is on top of what is transpiring out there, by the sounds of it. The other question I’d like to ask is how a decision like that, made by the Minister, impacts the IMA that’s in place currently between the Yellowknives Dene and the City of Yellowknife and his department. To me, it goes against the protocols as set out in the IMA, to just grant access to the Yellowknives Dene to access the sandpits. Maybe the Minister could speak to the IMA and what impact or precedent this sets going forward. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 385-15(3): Deton’Cho Access To Sandpits Land

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the IMA refers to occupancy. This was a request that came in to do some early assessment. If the land is not suitable, the Yellowknives Dene informed us and are informing the City of Yellowknife that they will move away from that project. However, there are a number of other sites that the Yellowknives Dene are interested in, and the City of Yellowknife is looking at acquiring more land for the growth of the city. So we have to have a system that’s put in place. In my own judgment, I made the call that we should issue a permission to occupy. There is no requirement under the IMA to consult with anybody. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Your final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 385-15(3): Deton’Cho Access To Sandpits Land

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, one quick, final supplementary. I’m just wondering if the Minister can confirm for us whether or not he believes a residential development that close in proximity to the Yellowknife Airport is something that he would support. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 385-15(3): Deton’Cho Access To Sandpits Land

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, if the City of Yellowknife agrees, the Yellowknives Dene agrees, and if it fits within the Department of Transportation’s plan overall, I certainly would support it. We have a lot of work to do yet on this issue. We have to have a lot of discussion. We have to develop a process where everybody is satisfied that their interests are being taken care of and that’s what my focus is right now. We’re nowhere near approving anybody’s applications. There are a number of applications out there that we have to deal with. At this point we have granted permission to do some early seismic work in that area; that’s what it is limited to. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are for the Minister of RWED, with regard to the Nahendeh Air proposal. It was submitted to his office about a year ago, Mr. Speaker, and we’re failing to understand why it’s taking so long to get government support for this program. To date, we’ve got the businesses on side, we’ve got the communities on side, we’ve got the regional people on side, we have federal support and yet nothing is forthcoming from the GNWT RWED department. I fail to understand what exactly we’re waiting for, Mr. Speaker. I would like the Minister of RWED to tell me and, indeed, the public, what’s taking so long for this Nahendeh Air proposal to be supported by our government. Thank you.