Debates of February 18, 2005 (day 39)

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Supplementary To Question 427-15(3): Protection Of Aboriginal Rights Within Municipal Boundaries

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the interim measures agreements forced the sandpits or something that the Yellowknives Dene want to have. There is a process in terms of resolving that within the interim measures agreement. Is that the process that this will take in terms of further interest by the Yellowknives Dene in terms of the sandpits? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 427-15(3): Protection Of Aboriginal Rights Within Municipal Boundaries

Mr. Speaker, I guess there are two avenues where an aboriginal group such as the Yellowknives Dene can access land. There is the formal process of applying through the city, which would come to us for review. Depending if it is an application for lease or for fee-simple title, we would be dealing with it at the end of the day. There is the other process of the aboriginal groups that are in negotiations to come forward as part of their land identification to identify this area. However, that does not give them an automatic transfer. It would have to be an area that would have to be negotiated at the negotiating table. In the case of the Yellowknives Dene, they are not at that level yet. They are not at that point where they are sitting down and selecting land or going through a land selection process. My understanding is that they have done some early work in identifying some areas of interest to them. They are talking to the city about these areas. I am sure these maps and stuff will come forward to us. However, we haven’t seen that at this point. We have had some early discussions around that, but the ability to access this land through the negotiation table at this point for the sandpits is actually premature. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, further to my Member’s statement about the recently released management plan for the Bathurst Caribou herd, in light of the rather eye-catching headline in the newspaper today that read, “Caribou hunt ban in plan." It is something that would raise concerns of many avid hunters everywhere in the North. I suppose, Mr. Speaker, that might be the outcome in the end, is we don’t collectively manage the caribou herd in a way that could sustain and that could give all of the residents of the Territories the privilege to hunt for sustenance as well as recreation. I think it is understood that, should there be a risk in a herd, the rights of hunters of non-aboriginals and outfitters will go first before anything like that is done for the aboriginal hunters. It is in the interest of everybody to protect this. I would like to ask the Premier, as the stakeholder in this whole management plan because the GNWT is the essential player in that, whether he could commit to making sure that all the stakeholders are consulted and be part of the team to make sure that this potential ban, if it exists, does not happen. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. The honourable Premier, Mr. Handley.

Return To Question 428-15(3): Bathurst Caribou Management Plan

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In terms of consultation, then certainly there has to be more consultation. Let me say that the Bathurst management plan that was introduced is the recommendations from the committee which is made up of our government, federal government, Inuit organizations, First Nations people and so on. It doesn’t represent, necessarily, the views of each of the organizations that the individuals are from, but it is committee’s recommendation. Before our government would take action on this plan, we would want to take into consideration the needs of all and the interests of all the users of that caribou herd. So, Mr. Speaker, that does include the commercial operators, the tourism operators, the non-aboriginal hunters, the aboriginal hunters, and all of the people who are using that herd. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 428-15(3): Bathurst Caribou Management Plan

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In fact, one of the objectives of the committee is to ensure that the plan is implemented and information about progress on management actions is shared with all stakeholders and users. Mr. Speaker, I might add that most of the plan is about how to monitor and manage the herd better. One of the things that the plan recommends is that the GNWT change the regulations with regard to the quotas and the numbers. We know that, being here for so many years, wildlife legislation has been in the works for a very long time. It hasn’t been introduced. Could I ask the Premier when the government is planning on bringing that legislation forward? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. The honourable Premier, Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 428-15(3): Bathurst Caribou Management Plan

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We expect that we will be able to introduce the Wildlife Act to this Assembly in May 2005. Mr. Speaker, there is also a companion piece of legislation. That is the species at risk legislation. That one I expect we should be able to have ready for introduction to the Legislative Assembly within the next month or so. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 428-15(3): Bathurst Caribou Management Plan

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I don’t know if the Premier could answer this, but I see that there are many people at the table in this committee and GNWT and DIAND being the government representatives, but all of the other aboriginal governments both in Nunavut and the NWT are represented. I am just wondering if the government is expected to answer to this and if there is an opportunity for the government to respond whether the government could reiterate the importance of consultation for the committee to put this action plan into work. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 428-15(3): Bathurst Caribou Management Plan

Mr. Speaker, definitely our government will have to respond to the recommendations from this team who was put together to look at the Bathurst herd. So we will be doing that. In doing that, we will be consulting with parties who are not part of the team that was studying the herd. That includes the hunters and those who have commercial operations for tourism. Mr. Speaker, in looking at this plan, the plan does acknowledge that it is very complex because the Bathurst herd doesn’t have an area that is exclusively occupied by them. There are other herds that get mixed in with them from the Beverly and Qamanirjuaq Caribou herd. There are other herds. There are more herds that mix together. We will have to look at this very carefully. Mr. Speaker, I can assure that what we will do is be responsible to all users. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Final, short supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 428-15(3): Bathurst Caribou Management Plan

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the government’s commitment to make sure that all the communication and consultation is done. Mr. Speaker, one of the recommendations that the plan makes is to develop, publicize and implement community-based hunting rules and territory hunting regulations in order to avoid wounding and wastage of wildlife. I think there could never be enough promotion and publicizing of the importance of hunting responsibly. Could I ask the Premier to direct these officials to make sure that this is done properly and well? Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 428-15(3): Bathurst Caribou Management Plan

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Responsible hunting has always been a key principle that our wildlife people have operated on. I know many hunters do. I have seen hunters go to great lengths to track down a wounded animal to make sure that it is not just being wasted out there. Mr. Speaker, when talking about these herds, I also want to emphasize that the herds tend to increase in size and decrease in size, decline in numbers and so on. Nobody should feel that there is a guarantee that what they have today will necessarily be there in the long term. That has never been part of our plan. The sustainability of the herd is what is most important. RWED has no intentions at this point to reduce anything for anybody, but we do want to look at this plan very carefully and, in the interests of all users, make sure that we are being fair to everybody. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the Minister of Transportation, Mr. McLeod. I know the Minister knows how important the issue of an access road into Kam Lake Industrial Park is to me. I am wondering, from his role as the Minister of Transportation, how the granting of access to the Deton'Cho Corporation to access the sandpits is going to impact any future development of an access road into Kam Lake Industrial Park. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Minister of Transportation, Mr. McLeod.

Return To Question 429-15(3): Kam Lake Access Road

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I have indicated before, I have not seen a formal application from the Yellowknives Dene. However, we have had discussion as to the area that we have granted permission to access. It does not conflict with the airport development plan or the Kam Lake access road the city has been discussing. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 429-15(3): Kam Lake Access Road

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The access road would go right through the land that was granted access to to Deton'Cho Corporation by the Minister in January. Does the Minister agree that an access road into an industrial park answers the issue of public safety currently at play here in the city of Yellowknife with truck traffic on roads in residential areas? If a residential housing development is put in at the sandpits, that access road would go right through it with truck traffic. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 429-15(3): Kam Lake Access Road

Mr. Speaker, I think the Member has indicated that this road would go through the area that the Deton'Cho has applied for. Again, I have not seen an application from Deton'Cho Corporation or the Yellowknives Dene. Our plans are for an access road to the west side of the airport. The city has indicated their interest in the bypass road. We are having discussions and we have just recently seen the city’s development plan. We have recently concluded our development plan. We’re looking at combining and comparing them right now and this road does not -- once again -- does not go through the area that the Yellowknives Dene have asked for permission to access. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 429-15(3): Kam Lake Access Road

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I’m concerned that the Minister has a bunch of different conflicting interests at play with that parcel of land. On the one hand, as the Minister of Transportation, he’s got the airport to be concerned about, he’s got this access road to be concerned about; but then, with his other hat on as Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, he can grant access to Deton'Cho Corporation to that parcel of land for a housing development. I am wondering where his responsibility lies. Where is it? Is it with Deton'Cho Corporation? Is it with this access road? Is if for future airport expansion? Where is his responsibility? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 429-15(3): Kam Lake Access Road

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the quick answer is all of the above. I am responsible, as the Minister of Transportation, for the airport development plan; I’m responsible, as the Minister of MACA, to deal with the city on the bypass road, there’s no legislative requirement. There’s an interest that makes good sense, we want to talk to them, we want to be able to include it in our plans. We are planning to do an assessment of the costs. We are planning to work out who would pay for it. We are starting to look at the needs in terms of engineering. We are working with the Yellowknives Dene where the request came from to look at doing some soil sampling. There is the scientific reserve that’s in the area. There are a number of issues that we’re dealing with. There are applications from the city for some land in the Kam Lake area. We are trying to do all of those things and make them all fit, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 429-15(3): Kam Lake Access Road

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. How will the Department of Transportation, who is currently trying to work with the city on an MOU to pay for this road and to build this access road -- and that’s a known fact, that’s currently at play -- but then the Minister grants access to Deton'Cho Corporation to look at a housing development in that area. Is it an access road or is it a housing development, Mr. Speaker? That’s a legitimate question. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 429-15(3): Kam Lake Access Road

Mr. Speaker, it’s certainly a legitimate question, but I think I’ve answered it three times. There are no plans for an access road at this point. There is discussion. We’re going to do an assessment. The access road concept is not in the area that Deton'Cho has shown interest. It’s an area where their airport development plan has been identified and applied for. So it’s a different area. I don’t know how many times I’m going to say that, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Your final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 429-15(3): Kam Lake Access Road

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m going to try this question again, but I’m trying to understand how a government could be working on an MOU for one area in one department and then in the other department is granting access to build a housing development. How does that happen and the Minister is responsible for both of them? Really, I haven’t heard a really solid answer as to what’s going on out there. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 429-15(3): Kam Lake Access Road

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it’s not a new situation. The government has to deal with a number of different issues. In this case, the Department of Transportation is working with the city to look at the concept of a bypass road. We’ve done some early cost estimates. The city has done some cost estimating. We have to do some engineering, we have to do some costing together. We have to look at who is going to pay for it, how we are going to pay for it. So we’re working with the city on that as the Department of Transportation. The city is dealing with the application for land requests by the Deton'Cho Corporation. I think it’s pretty clear. Mr. Speaker, they are in the same general area, but two different projects. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs some continued questions on the potential development at the sandpits in relation to the housing approach.

---Laughter

Mr. Speaker, affordable housing in any community is something that I welcome. I champion this initiative.

---Applause

But I also look for sustainable long-term compatible development. In this sense, Mr. Speaker, I wanted to ask the Minister if we’re looking at what has been suggested would be, say, a 400-unit, actually a satellite community perhaps, what obligations would MACA have in terms of funding the infrastructure for such a community development? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. The honourable Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. McLeod.

Return To Question 430-15(3): Responsibility For Funding Housing Infrastructure Development

Mr. Speaker, that’s a very, in my opinion, hypothetical question. There is no detail provided to the Member, I don’t believe, on any plans for a housing development. Right now, the request has come to us to do some seismic work. There is an interest potentially for housing. We have not gone as far as deciding who will pay for what and deciding what our responsibilities are going to be in that area. If it is something the city approves, there will be a requirement for services. They will have to work with the city on that issue. Right now, there are costs for providing services in the airport area that I can share with the Member; that is, trucked services. I’m assuming that would be the same. If there was a requirement for piped water or a piped system, the cost would be borne by I’m not sure who at this point. It’s going to be very costly in any event. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 430-15(3): Responsibility For Funding Housing Infrastructure Development

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate that costs would more or less be at the expense of the developer and then, of course, the occupants or the customers, but surely there are purely public infrastructure costs. Would we be potentially looking at, say, the need for a new fire hall or schools or parks or recreation? These are very distinct responsibilities at the territorial level. So I just want to get a sense, Mr. Speaker, what kind of obligations would we be looking ahead to, to perhaps enable this to happen? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 430-15(3): Responsibility For Funding Housing Infrastructure Development

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, once again I think these questions are very premature. We have no plans for putting any infrastructure there. There seems to be an assumption that there is a new community being developed and we’re going to start putting in fire halls and everything else. No, we have no plans to provide any infrastructure at this point. We haven’t even seen an application. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs. Mr. Speaker, when I’m not in my constituency, I obviously have occasion to live in the capital. I live in Frame Lake and you cannot live in Frame Lake without noticing an extreme amount of heavy traffic which uses the Old Airport Road to access the Kam Lake Industrial Park for various reasons. Mr. Speaker, I’d like to ask the Minister who is responsible for developing and enforcing legislation related to the transport of hazardous, dangerous and flammable goods through densely-populated residential areas within municipalities. Is it the Government of the Northwest Territories? Is it the City of Yellowknife? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.