Debates of February 24, 2005 (day 43)

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. The Minister details about how resources would be allocated and now, the next logical question, Mr. Speaker, is what is the placement plan or the long-term plan of placing these units in the communities? What resources have they got earmarked for the Nahendeh riding communities? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 470-15(3): Housing Needs In Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, again, it’s a process that we go through by way of a 10-year plan that we have developed. In that plan we are implementing the new needs surveys and also trying to ensure that we are able to accommodate communities that are in need, according to the survey. But more importantly, Mr. Speaker, it has to meet the budgetary criteria for the corporation. As we know, we are now phasing out social funding. Again, in order to meet that need, we have to work within the budget. So right now, Mr. Speaker, we have to allocate based on need, but also within the budget restraints we have.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Supplementary To Question 470-15(3): Housing Needs In Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I was just wondering if the Minister had enough time to review the federal budget, in terms of its allocation towards housing. Does it have implications for us and can we expect, in the foreseeable future, to address more of our housing needs in the regions? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 470-15(3): Housing Needs In Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am working in conjunction with Bill Erasmus through the AFN allocation. As everybody knows, in the budget there was $5 billion allocated for aboriginal housing. We are working closely with Bill and the people he has, developing the proposal to take forth to the AFN meetings this summer; to look at a plan for the North for this funding so we can access funding for aboriginal communities on top of the funding we have through our core funding allocations.

Again, in the budget, that’s one area that we’re looking at. Also, there is work that is ongoing with the federal Minister of Housing to see about establishing a northern housing strategy that will be developed between the three territories to give to the federal Minister and make him aware these are the territorial positions going forward for housing for northern Canada. How we’ve been dealt with it in the past is, because of our small population, we’ve been allocated based on per capita. Out of a $350 million pot of funds, we received $400,000 over three years. We cannot meet our challenges with $400,000 over three years. So we have to change the system of how the dollars are allocated, working with our federal counterparts and our aboriginal partners, in order to meet the needs in aboriginal communities.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Final supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Supplementary To Question 470-15(3): Housing Needs In Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Just to take it away from the national level again and just bring it back to, say, Jean Marie River, their need is four units. When can the Minister assure Jean Marie River that it’s not going to be 10 years from now, but three years from now or two years from now? Does the Minister have the ability to do that? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 470-15(3): Housing Needs In Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. One of the processes we’re working on is trying to ensure people have a better understanding of our programs and services with regard to the IHP programs, independent housing programs, our EDAP programs and other programs that are out there. I think that because of the needs surveys we have, I know it’s an issue here in the House, on how those dollars are allocated. But again, it’s an application-based program. We do have program dollars going into Jean Marie River this fiscal year. Also, looking at the needs surveys that we do have, we are looking at revising our needs based on those communities that have well in excess of 30 percent in core needs. Again, we’re focusing on those communities in need and improving the maintenance dollars we do have to improve on those units that are there, to improve the lives and housing in those communities. Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, my questions this afternoon are for the Minister of Finance and it relates to our ability to cash flow the growing and inexorable deficit that we have in our capacity to afford our housing program. Mr. Speaker, we heard nothing at all in the federal budget yesterday on a national program, let alone a northern basis, for housing. The CMHC program, of course, is drying up. The Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation has suggested that maybe there’s something out of an aboriginal program, but I’m not convinced and I want to go to the Minister of Finance to ask what our options are to cash flow for this very long-term and very real need; our government’s housing needs. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. The honourable Minister of Finance, Mr. Roland.

Return To Question 471-15(3): Funding For Long-Term Housing Needs

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as we have in a number of areas and programs with our partners and the federal government, we are trying to come up with working arrangements with them to see if they can continue the dollars for the social housing program. I’m aware the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation is continuing on that initiative. The other areas we would have to look at are to come up with the dollars that are being reduced on an annual basis now. To come up with the additional dollars, we’d have to look at our own-source revenues if it’s not going to come from the federal government. So we’d have to look at how we would fund that and that would include possibly more taxing or, hopefully as we go forward, our own-source revenues, including royalties of the non-renewable resources sector. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 471-15(3): Funding For Long-Term Housing Needs

Mr. Speaker, the Minister has opened up an interesting area: our own-source revenues. I’d sort of like to turn that around a little bit. What about our own ability to provide incentives to our partners, builders, developers, communities, aboriginals, development corporations, to step up to the plate to join us in this venture? But we would need to make taxation and revenue decisions to, as I say, provide those incentives. Is that something that we have in our toolbox to help build more houses? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 471-15(3): Funding For Long-Term Housing Needs

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we do have already within the toolbox, as the Member has mentioned, with the arrangements that have been worked out through the Housing Corporation, incentives that do help people get into their own homes and build homes in the Northwest Territories. The big one around that is EDAP, or Expanded Downpayment Assistance Program. That’s one avenue. From a government end, from the incentive to either…I heard a Member earlier in their Member’s statement talking about a tax relief of some sort or another. That’s something we haven’t looked at directly. Our goals are first to try to find more money from those that are directly involved and we consider the federal government as being a key part of that picture. From what we have available to us, one of the things that the Housing Corporation, for example, is doing is selling off some of the older units and single-dwelling units and looking at multi-unit facilities. Instead of one detached home, looking at a four-plex of that type, because we know that the operations and maintenance are lower for a multi-plex than for a single residence. So those are some of the areas they’ve been working on. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 471-15(3): Funding For Long-Term Housing Needs

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Minister be able to move these kinds of things forward through Cabinet? Because I know on this side of the House there’s a lot of readiness and willingness to listen to some new ideas and some thinking outside the box. But right now I don’t have much confidence at all in the proposals that are before us. Will there be some new and innovative ways of financing long term brought to the committee and this Assembly, Mr. Speaker?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 471-15(3): Funding For Long-Term Housing Needs

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, through the Department of Finance, if there are some initiatives brought forward that we could look at that are sustainable from what we see our fiscal picture being, we would look at those and see if in fact they had some merit to go in and investigate a little further. We know, for example, with the reworking of the Housing Corporation and its mandate, there may be some opportunities there to look at going into the area of affordable and sustainable housing and how we would fund those as the Government of the Northwest Territories.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I’d like to ask my questions to the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation. Mr. Speaker, it seems to be the proverbial debate when it comes to housing; whether or not the mandate of the Housing Corporation is to deliver social housing and incentives, or whether it is to create economic activity and economic development. Over the years, we have, as many other Members have said, tried to hang a lot of extra things on the delivery of housing in the Northwest Territories. We’ve tried to hang on it things such as training, manufacturing, jobs…It has just downright been the government getting into business through the Housing Corporation with funding things like door factories and all kinds of other things which have kind of clouded the picture of what we’re trying to do here. I’d like to ask this Minister for his understanding of this mandate which, it seems, as has been mentioned, may be in the process of being refined. What is the prominent mandate of the Housing Corporation? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, Mr. Krutko.

Return To Question 472-15(3): Mandate Of The Housing Corporation

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, one of the core components of our initiatives is to look at the affordability, adequacy and suitability of housing for people in the North. I think the biggest element of that is affordability. We hear about people trying to get mortgages, people trying to get into homeownership, but the problem that we’re running into is the costs of stick-built homes in the Northwest Territories are excessive. We do have a manufacturing directive that looks at manufacturing products in the North, and in the last 10 years we’ve spent $18 million in that area. All that goes back to the homeowner. I think it’s important that through those three initiatives, looking at the affordability questions, the suitability and also the accessibility for people to be able to access these programs and not have these restraints in place. So right now through the mandate review, those are the three goals and objectives we’re trying to meet through the new mandate change that we’re going forward with.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 472-15(3): Mandate Of The Housing Corporation

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the Minister for that answer. It gives me a very clear picture of where he’s going because there is always that debate over more houses for our money or fewer houses, but now adding all these other things onto it. What I want to ask the Minister, is it conceivably compatible that we could deliver more affordable housing while at the same time creating northern economy through it? I think of the market housing initiative, bringing in units from the South. Can we accomplish that here in the North? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 472-15(3): Mandate Of The Housing Corporation

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, with regard to the question that the Member asked, as it sits right now, nobody in the Northwest Territories has the certification to provide these types of mobile homes. In order to meet national standards, Canadian National Building Codes, and getting the certification that’s needed to build these units, right now no one has that certification in the Northwest Territories.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 472-15(3): Mandate Of The Housing Corporation

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I think it would be ideal to be able to provide affordable housing while, at the same time, creating jobs and economy in the North. Would the Minister, through the Housing Corporation, be prepared to pursue with potential interested parties the possibility of manufacturing certified homes in the North for northerners? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 472-15(3): Mandate Of The Housing Corporation

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I believe that’s the goal we are facing. We have spoken to respective companies that are considering working in that area. They are companies that are looking at the possibility of establishing such a business. But again, there are proposals that we are suggesting going forward with through the Business Development Corporation, the Business Credit Corporation and working with those other arms of government to help the entrepreneur or the business community that we’ve spoken to companies in Yellowknife and Hay River and also in Southern Canada who are considering making such a move. But again, it has to be economically sound and, at the end of the day, it has to be affordable. We have to develop a product we can afford at the end of the day to sell to our clients. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 472-15(3): Mandate Of The Housing Corporation

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I agree with what the Minister is saying. I think he has struck the right balance. I think it is possible to create affordable units in the North. Is it currently within the mandate of the NWT Housing Corporation to be able to assist a business to begin with that without going to the Dev Corp or anyone else? Isn’t there already a provision within the mandate of the Housing Corporation to create such an industry in the North? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 472-15(3): Mandate Of The Housing Corporation

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I mentioned, there are several initiatives we are working on. One is looking at the mandate of the corporation and we’re hoping to have it ready by April 1st to take to Cabinet. Another area that I touched on earlier is the whole area of developing a northern housing strategy to deal with the federal government. In the federal budget there was a whole bunch of announcements looking at the whole area of conservation and looking at energy-efficient homes and whatnot. We have to build that into our building methods in the North, but also look at access to federal programs. So those are some of the initiatives we are working on.

There’s also another initiative we’re working on with my colleagues in looking at the whole idea of the pipeline and how are we able to access some of that infrastructure that is going to be built, or even have the ability to put this infrastructure together through partnerships or arrangements with communities and industry. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it’s my belief that some of our government policies date back to the invention of the wheel. Mr. Speaker, this government, in my opinion, does not have a coordinated housing policy for seniors and persons with disabilities. Will the Minister answer the question, do we have any type of coordinated plan and policy? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, Mr. Krutko.

Return To Question 473-15(3): Seniors' And Disabled Housing

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we have been working closely with the Seniors’ Society. We do have a universal arrangement with them where we’ve funded them to work with us on different promotion packages, such as the seniors’ disabled maintenance programs. We do have a lot of programs directed towards seniors with regard to the housing proposal. Again, we are working in conjunction with the different organizations: the Council for Disabled People and the Seniors’ Society. So we are working with them, but we also have programs that are directed to seniors and people with disabilities.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 473-15(3): Seniors' And Disabled Housing

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I further rise with a bit of concern because it’s working with here, working with there, working who knows everywhere. I feel like Dr. Seuss, for goodness sakes. Mr. Speaker, I know we can do something like this and, by George, we have the paper, we have the hot air. Can we get a coordinated policy that organizes independent, respectful, dignified living for people who are seniors and people with disabilities? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 473-15(3): Seniors' And Disabled Housing

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, if you look at the programs and services that this government delivers, especially in the area of seniors and working with people with disabilities, we do have a lot of good programs. I’m not going to say they are all bad. We do have good programs out there. They do improve the living conditions of a lot of our seniors with regard to our repair programs and our maintenance programs. Also we are looking at the whole arrangement with regard to barrier-free access. The Member touches on that but, again, it’s a national standard. We build houses in the Northwest Territories using Canadian Building Code standards. We have to follow those standards, it’s a national standard. So again, because of the national implication and guidelines we follow, we have to be directed by those guidelines right now because we don’t have those guidelines in house right now from the Housing Corporation.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 473-15(3): Seniors' And Disabled Housing

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I’d really like to know if this government believes that policies need to evolve with the time. Mr. Speaker, will this Minister agree that dignified independent living should be a priority of this government? Do we believe that’s an important issue? Do we believe the quality of life is linked to good living for our seniors and people who have disabilities? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 473-15(3): Seniors' And Disabled Housing