Debates of February 25, 2005 (day 44)

…to come up with a real number on what these savings look like. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Minister of Justice, Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 489-15(3): Closure Of The South Mackenzie Correctional Centre Remand Unit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My figures are based on historical data. However, we could get two or three more remand customers next year, or two or three less, so the numbers will change. They won’t be exact over the next year. The numbers that have been presented to the Member are in fact based on historical evaluations. We took the logs from South Mackenzie Correctional Centre and looked at how many times inmates have been in and out for remand or in and out for appearances in court, and used those numbers.

Yes, there has been an in-depth look, but I can’t predict exactly how many people we are going to have next year. This is based on historical data. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 489-15(3): Closure Of The South Mackenzie Correctional Centre Remand Unit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Minister is absolutely right. He cannot predict, but I think it is very interesting that information that came from his department indicates that the Department of Justice does not anticipate any increase in crime as a result of the pipeline or any major resource development.

Mr. Speaker, I don’t know which newspaper the Minister reads or which news broadcast he listens to, and I would like to suggest to you that he may not have a crystal ball, but I don’t think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out there is going to be a greater demand on our justice services of the next little while.

Hear! Hear!

I know he can’t predict the future, but I still do not believe these numbers and, Mr. Speaker, even the $18,000 that is supposed to be allocated for transportation, who actually pays for the transportation of the inmates to Yellowknife, back and forth now for court appearances? Who pays that bill? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 489-15(3): Closure Of The South Mackenzie Correctional Centre Remand Unit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The RCMP are responsible for prisoner transportation in the Northwest Territories. Our agreement with the RCMP is that the NWT government pays 70 percent of the cost of the contract, and the federal government pays 30 percent of the cost of that contract. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 489-15(3): Closure Of The South Mackenzie Correctional Centre Remand Unit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So based on historical information of the number of remand clients that are now located in Hay River, the Minister is telling me that 70 percent of the cost of transportation does not exceed $18,000, based on historical use of that service. Thank you. Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 489-15(3): Closure Of The South Mackenzie Correctional Centre Remand Unit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. What we are saying is that we think that the transportation of people on remand can be accommodated for very close to that number. Again I am saying it is plus or minus. If we have a few more or a few less, it will change. Yes, based on historical data, that number is pretty close to what is expected. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 489-15(3): Closure Of The South Mackenzie Correctional Centre Remand Unit

So, Mr. Speaker, if I were to get the numbers of the inmates in remand in Hay River for the last year and then take the 2.1 times to reappear and go back in court, and multiply it by 70 percent, the Minister is going to tell us in the House today that that is not going to exceed $18,000. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 489-15(3): Closure Of The South Mackenzie Correctional Centre Remand Unit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There are some variables here too. Mrs. Groenewegen a few days ago gave an example which involved using scheduled aircraft. If all of the Hay River remand prisoners were to use scheduled aircraft with RCMP escorts to appear 2.18 times in front of a judge, then the number would be in the area of $20,000.

However, the RCMP plane also has to be factored into that. There is a significant reduction in cost if the RCMP plane is used for transporting prisoners. I can say that every time I have seen the plane in Hay River, it has had somebody that has been escorted back or is getting on.

The RMCP also factors into that. Even if we were to use scheduled transportation and factor in the cost of the matron for supervision in the cells, yes, we are talking within 10 percent of the number that we have.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am going to continue asking questions to the Premier, in regard to multi-year funding.

Mr. Speaker, I was concerned that the Premier may have implied in one way or the other that we should be accountable for that money. If that was the case, I am going to go back to Hansard and see if he was implying it. Because I think that that is a point of privilege and in no way would I imply in any way that we should not be accountable for our multi-year funding.

Mr. Speaker, I am talking about how these NGOs are being funded. I am talking about making their life easier. I am talking about stabilization of that problem.

Mr. Speaker, would the Premier be willing to go back and look into this problem for say any organization over 10 years that our government has been funding on multi-year agreements that get renewed year to year; that they have to put a new proposal in year-to-year funding, over and over and over again? Would he look at switching them and negotiating a mandate to switch them from three to five-year agreements, to make their life easier? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Premier, Mr. Handley.

Return To Question 490-15(3): Multi-Year Funding For Non-Government Organizations

Mr. Speaker, we deal with a lot of NGOs, who have a lot of different mandates. Most of them are ongoing, but some of them do sunset from time to time. All that has to be taken into consideration.

Mr. Speaker, if there are NGOs out there who have been filing and filling out applications every year, filing these with the government and then repeating the process next year and want to talk about multi-year funding, they simply have to go to the appropriate Minister and negotiate that. We are open to that, we do it all the time.

Again, I say, they still have to account for the money on an annual basis; no question about that. Second is that whatever agreement we come to on a multi-year basis is subject by a vote by this House on our appropriation. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 490-15(3): Multi-Year Funding For Non-Government Organizations

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I appreciate what the Premier just said, but the other day we were talking about multi-year agreements with the Finance Minister with regard to the City of Yellowknife. The MACA Minister told me the FAA Act handcuffs us for these types of discussions. I am not really sure I am getting a clear answer from three different Ministers.

Mr. Speaker, we can negotiate with these things. Let’s open up the door, let’s create a one-window approach. Who would this Premier suggest for all of these organizations to approach, yes, with the proviso, that the money is voted on in this House? Who would the Premier suggest that we should be approaching to create multi-year agreements? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 490-15(3): Multi-Year Funding For Non-Government Organizations

Mr. Speaker, any NGO or municipal government or anyone who wants to enter into a multi-year funding arrangement with our government would have to approach the appropriate Minister. If it is a municipality, you would go to the Minister of MACA; if it’s one that’s doing work on the social agenda areas, you would go to Education or Justice or Housing or whoever is appropriate. Mr. Speaker, they would have to come back to whichever Minister is responsible. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 490-15(3): Multi-Year Funding For Non-Government Organizations

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this could be a hallmark of this government. We talk endlessly about hydro, the big plans of the future and whatnot. Well, let’s talk about the people who will be here after these diamond mines are gone, after these oil and gas things are gone; let’s talk about them. They are the ones underpinning our society.

This is just whitewashing the issue. Will the Premier take responsibility and say we are going to make it a mandate of this government to solve this problem? We are going to open the doors, we are not just going to send them here, send them there -- like I said yesterday on other issues -- let’s deal with it. Will he say my office is open, we are going to solve this problem. Will the Premier take that responsibility and deal with the problem? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Premier, Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 490-15(3): Multi-Year Funding For Non-Government Organizations

Mr. Speaker, I have a difficult time and I certainly want to read Hansard to figure out what the problem is. If an NGO or anyone we fund has an issue with the agreement that they have, the contract they have, they would go to the appropriate Minister.

I don’t know that there is a big problem that covers everybody, because we do consider multi-year funding, as I have said before, but it is all subject to the appropriation in the House. I don’t understand what the big problem is. Individual agencies though go to the appropriate Minister. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Final supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 490-15(3): Multi-Year Funding For Non-Government Organizations

I almost called a point of order on myself.

---Laughter

Almost. Mr. Speaker, I don’t know what to say. If I were to nail the Premier’s feet down, he would still out dance me. He would still out dance me, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I have people telling me their organizations are struggling because they put application after application in every year and they are waiting for the certainty at the 11th hour of March 31st.

Mr. Speaker, this government can shift with the times. This government can work with these organizations. This government has that mandate. We can address it. Mr. Speaker, can the Premier say today that he will work on this problem for creating the certainty that the NGOs are saying they want stabilized, clear funding? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Premier, Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 490-15(3): Multi-Year Funding For Non-Government Organizations

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Everybody wants stabilized funding. Right from the pipeline companies, to our government, to the federal government; everybody does.

That is a reality that we all have to deal with. We all have to be accountable for our money. I will say it again, Mr. Speaker. If a specific agency, Mr. Speaker, has a problem with filling out applications year after year, they should talk to the appropriate Minister, whichever one is responsible for that mandate, and talk about multi-year funding. We have multi-year funding agreements in place, we have some that are under negotiation. I don’t know which one the Member is referring to, but if there are one or two or five who are feeling they can’t do it, then talk to the Minister.

Again I will say, Mr. Speaker, everything we do is subject to a vote in this House. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have some questions for Mr. Bell, the Minister of what we now call RWED and is soon to be a couple of other departments. It is in the area of the Mackenzie Valley pipeline project and funding and support for organizations, regional governments, to help prepare for this pipeline.

In Wednesday’s federal budget, Mr. Speaker, the federal government put $150 million on the table over the next four years to increase federal and regional capacity to respond efficiently and effectively to environmental and regulatory applications associated with the pipeline.

Mr. Speaker, earlier this week I brought to the Assembly the extreme shortfall in funding and support to NGOs and community governments, and this may be part of the answer. I am wondering if the Minister can tell us, is this $150 million that the federal government has on the table going to be accessible to interveners and to parties that came up short in the last round of funding. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. The honourable Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Bell.

Return To Question 491-15(3): Mackenzie Gas Project Intervener Funding

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think that’s a very good question and certainly one on the minds of a number of parties who have made application to intervene before the JRP environmental assessment. In the coming days, weeks and months, we’ll know more about the criteria the federal government plans to attach to this money. As I have indicated previously, we have heard from many disgruntled groups who feel that phase one and phase two of the funding that’s been available through DIAND has been inadequate and they haven’t been able to access it. So hopefully, and I know it’s what the Member is hoping as well, this money can respond to that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 491-15(3): Mackenzie Gas Project Intervener Funding

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess one of the characteristics of federal budgets is large ideas and large blocks are introduced. The devil is in the detail. Given where we are now, just a few days out of the announcement, would the Minister undertake to lobby the federal government to make sure that a substantial portion of this is available to northern NGOs and communities, perhaps even our own government, to help us respond efficiently and effectively to applications? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 491-15(3): Mackenzie Gas Project Intervener Funding

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In short, yes. I think we are also going to be setting about a plan to better understand the federal government’s intentions on ensuring a sustainable environment and the $3 billion in new funding that was announced in that regard. Again, we have to know what that means for the Territories. The Minister of MACA, Mr. McLeod, has recently written several letters to federal officials making the case for communities in this territory who need help in order to be ready for this development, who need help in developing capacity. As a government, we will continue to press the case with our federal counterparts. I give the Member that assurance. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 491-15(3): Mackenzie Gas Project Intervener Funding

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As almost always is the case with this kind of thing, time is of the essence. The regulatory process has a number of triggers and deadlines built into it. What kind of priority is the Minister going to be putting on securing this funding and working with our partners and other NGOs in communities to help get this money in place just as soon as possible? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 491-15(3): Mackenzie Gas Project Intervener Funding

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it is of highest priority. Our Joint Cabinet/AOC Pipeline Planning Committee has discussed how we had better approach the federal government in a number of areas, including how we might help to get money to mitigate some of the social impacts. There are a whole range of areas. This is of highest priority for that committee, of highest priority for this government, and we will certainly continue to do that, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. The time for oral questions has expired. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to extend question period.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions are for the Minister of Justice in follow-up to the discussion that we were having on the last set of questions. Mr. Speaker, I just really question the quality of information that the Minister is being provided by his department, because I still do not believe that the $18,000 that is being indicated for travel is sufficient to accommodate the inmates that will be in remand that will need to be transported back and forth. Mr. Speaker, if I can have access to the kinds of statistics that I need and I can put a case together that that number is, in fact, wrong and that these savings and these initiatives are based on supposed savings which are incorrect, will the Minister reconsider the closure of the remand facility? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Minister of Justice, Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 492-15(3): Closure Of The South Mackenzie Correctional Centre Remand Unit