Debates of January 21, 2004 (day 2)

Minister of Justice, Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 12-15(2): Access To Legal Aid For Family Law Matters

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would think that in the best of all worlds the wait would be considerably less than three to six months. It would be better if it could be only a couple of weeks, but the fact is that we can't find enough lawyers in the Northwest Territories to practice family law who are willing to take on these cases. The rate of pay for the Northwest Territories for legal aid lawyers is the second highest in Canada; only Nunavut is higher. But there are very few lawyers who are interested in taking on family law cases, and because of that there has been a growing backlog. We have increased the staff lawyer component to try and deal with this, but it is still a problem area that we recognize.

Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 12-15(2): Access To Legal Aid For Family Law Matters

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you, Minister, for your answer. Mr. Minister, my next question to you is what are you prepared to do in a reasonable sense to help assist with this access, so that people can access family law services much sooner? Is the Minister prepared today to reassure me that he will take steps so that all approved legal aid files will receive at least a first-base meeting within 30 days?

Minister of Justice, Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 12-15(2): Access To Legal Aid For Family Law Matters

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wish I could make that promise, but as Minister I'm not allowed to provide any direction directly to the Legal Services Board because it is an independent body. The limits are the appointment and revocation of appointments of the members of that board. That's the only action that the Minister can provide, other than providing funding. I can tell you that we have not cut our funding to legal aid at all in the recent past. As I said, we have tried to increase the staff lawyer component to deal with the backlog. I've talked to the federal Minister of Justice within the last week. He committed to me that he would continue to fight for the Northwest Territories, Nunavut and the Yukon to receive funding that is not tied to per capita so that we will continue to receive a disproportionate amount of funding and that we would see no cuts. But it's a situation where we are doing what we can, given the financial resources that we have to work with, and especially since we don't have enough lawyers who are willing to practice family law in the Northwest Territories.

Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 12-15(2): Access To Legal Aid For Family Law Matters

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I do want to thank the Minister for pointing out the independence of the board. The independent board is very important. Although it cannot be overlooked, the board is also accountable to the Minister. Mr. Minister, can I get your commitment today that you would make statistical information available to the Members of this Assembly regarding typical workload breakdown of legal aid files within the system from where they start as they enter, to where they get their first meetings, and when they come to a relative close, and if you could tie this together with other regions in comparison to the Territories? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister of Justice, Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 12-15(2): Access To Legal Aid For Family Law Matters

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe that I could provide that information. I will check with the Legal Services Board and see how much statistical data they can provide to us and how quickly, and we'll endeavor to distribute that to all Members of the Assembly as soon as I can get it.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I indicated in my Member's statement, I have a question for the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment with regard to the future of our youth in the Sahtu region. I wanted to ask the Minister if he would enter into a discussion with the Minister of MACA to create opportunities for our youth, between education and MACA, for after-school programs to support our children and to get them off the streets and to give them an opportunity to have a good, positive life and all the good things that go along with the Minister's statement?

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment.

Return To Question 13-15(2): After School Youth Programs In The Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would be happy to commit to work with my colleague on this issue. It may interest the honourable Member to know that as recently as yesterday, the staff of Education, Culture and Employment and Health and Social Services were meeting to discuss healthy living and active living activities. They have agreed that we will work together a bit more formally to try to pull together a plan, so that we can work within existing budgets to stimulate community-level activities particularly aimed at focusing on youth in the communities across the North. I would endeavor to also bring in our colleague, the Minister of Youth, to this group now and make sure that the four of us are working towards a plan that we can announce perhaps as early as this June.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions are for the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent. Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister what kind of training and credentials are possessed by and required by people who work in our communities as income support workers. Thank you.

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 14-15(2): Training Required For Income Support Workers

Mr. Speaker, I have to say that I'm not entirely familiar with the educational requirements for those positions. I suspect that they may not have specific training requirements to begin with. I know that in the past we have approached community organizations, bands and so on, to offer the program, because it has been seen largely as a fairly simple project to fill in the blanks on a form to determine whether or not income support is available. So I suspect that there may be more training that's required, but I can't answer the question in terms of specific training that's required.

Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 14-15(2): Training Required For Income Support Workers

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I think it's very important that we nail that down and figure that out, because the people who come into income support offices do need a lot of assistance and are in a very vulnerable situation most of the time. I'd also like to ask the Minister what support services do these workers have at their disposal, and are they required to refer clients to those services in the communities, such as the ones I referred to in my Member's statement, so that they might not just be back on income support forever, that they might get the kind of help that they need? What kind of services do they get referred to; income support clients? Thank you.

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 14-15(2): Training Required For Income Support Workers

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, having answered the question about the training required for income support workers, I think it's also important to say that the expectation is that the workers will take a case management approach. In other words, they're supposed to work with other resources in the community; for instance, the social worker with Health and Social Services who may make available some counselling services. The social worker may have access to psychological assistance if that's necessary, or other tools that may be available. We don’t have the comprehensive program we used to. The Member will probably remember from the 13th Assembly, we had the life skills program called Investing in People. Unfortunately, that program was cost shared with the federal government and when the funding was ended by the federal government, this government didn't have enough money to carry on on its own. So we don't have that kind of comprehensive program, but individuals are still supposed to be able to access counselling that is necessary in order to help them improve their chances of being successful.

Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 14-15(2): Training Required For Income Support Workers

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Also in keeping with the comment that I made in my Member's statement, I was quite shocked and appalled to have learned from income support clients who had received gifts of cash to buy gifts for their children over the Christmas holidays, that when they deposit that in their account and their bank statement is provided to the income support worker, that that was in fact also treated as income and clawed back. I just want to get it on the record from the Minister, is a cash gift at Christmas considered income to a low-income family for the purposes of assessing income support payments? Thank you.

Shame.

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 14-15(2): Training Required For Income Support Workers

Do I hear Scrooge? Mr. Speaker, one way to indicate to Members…The way the program works is kind of like a glass of water. Everybody needs this much water in their glass. If you start with half a glass, then the program will top it up, but all of the water in the glass is counted. So as you have resources, no matter where they come from, they are counted as part of what you bring to the table. The income support program is offered as a…

Shame, shame.

---Laugher

Enjoy your glass of water now. Income support is offered as a program of last resort, it's not a guaranteed income. It is a program that I'm prepared to discuss its administration with the committee and discuss how it should be examined and reviewed, and then we can maybe move from there. But in its current format, it is a program of last resort, and all of your resources, all of an individual's resources that they have, whether that comes from legal winnings or a cash gift, are counted as something in your pocket and all that is provided is then a top-up to get to what is absolutely needed to survive.

Final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 14-15(2): Training Required For Income Support Workers

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Also with respect to other sources such as IBA payments, I'd like to ask the Minister what is the status of the government's deliberations on determining whether income benefit agreement payments should be considered as income, or compensation or restitution for land and resources of the people that receive them? Is it income or is it compensation? Thank you.

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 14-15(2): Training Required For Income Support Workers

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Education, Culture and Employment has been advised by Justice that the IBAs are private contracts and we do not have access to them, so we are unable at this point to determine the answer to whether or not they are compensation or cash payments as a gift or whatever, income. I am prepared again to review the entire income support program, and would be happy to discuss that with the Standing Committee on Social Programs. But I am reluctant to make any one-off changes. I would like to take the opportunity to spend some time, work with the committee to review the program, and then if we are going to make changes, make them in a comprehensive manner.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. My question this afternoon is for the Premier with respect to his position for the Deh Cho Bridge portfolio. In my statement, I outlined a situation where the Mackenzie Valley Environmental Impact Review Board is considering taking this project to a full environmental assessment. The GNWT is a major player in this project; the major player in this project, Mr. Speaker. What is the GNWT’s position on the move to go to a full environmental assessment for this project? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Premier Handley.

Return To Question 15-15(2): Environmental Assessment Of The Deh Cho Bridge Project

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Environmental Impact Review Board will be doing a full assessment, is my understanding of this project. Certainly, as northerners, we do take the protection of the environment very seriously, so as a government we are not going to try to intervene in a way to try to stop this process. In fact, we will do what we can to provide information that we -- and the bridge corporation are of the same mind -- provide good information that they have already collected to ensure that this is a good environmental review and that we all enter this project with the best information. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 15-15(2): Environmental Assessment Of The Deh Cho Bridge Project

Mr. Speaker, I would agree with the Premier that we should never short-circuit the environment. The circumstances really seem to be unusual; that it is the Department of Fisheries that is advocating this on economic grounds. I have seen the Department of Fisheries’ application to do this. It really seems to be unusual and unwarranted. I would ask, does the Premier agree that the reasons for the application going through really don’t have much to do with the environment at all? Are they appropriate? Are they still appropriate or are they unusual or unwarranted? Thank you.

Premier Handley.

Further Return To Question 15-15(2): Environmental Assessment Of The Deh Cho Bridge Project

Mr. Speaker, sometimes it’s very difficult to understand reasons why people would put forward an application for an environmental review. My understanding is that the concern was expressed by the NWT Chamber of Mines because of costs to the mining industry. That then triggered a letter from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, who forwarded it to the land and water board and then we were into the process. Mr. Speaker, I am not going to try to interpret the thinking by the Chamber of Mines, but certainly this has added an uncertainty and a potential increased cost for the bridge, if it’s delayed as we go through an exercise to look at the cost to one sector of our economy. For example, if the interest rates were to rise in the next year while we are doing the review, that’s going to be an added cost onto the bridge and, therefore, could potentially increase the cost to not only the mining sector but to all industries who are using the bridge for heavy traffic. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 15-15(2): Environmental Assessment Of The Deh Cho Bridge Project

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I feel compelled to press my case here because the circumstances of going through with this review and the potential consequences are of some significance. What actions are we taking, Mr. Premier, to expedite the approval and construction of a bridge project? Thank you.

Premier Handley.

Further Return To Question 15-15(2): Environmental Assessment Of The Deh Cho Bridge Project

Mr. Speaker, as I mentioned before, both ourselves and the Deh Cho Bridge Corporation will do everything we can to provide information we have as quickly as we can to the environmental review board as this project is assessed.

In addition to that, I intend, as Minister responsible for the bridge, to meet with the Deh Cho Bridge Corporation and see whether or not there is some construction activity -- perhaps we could begin stockpiling material -- that would be allowed before we have the environmental review. I give that as an example. I don’t know whether it would be allowed, but if there is a way of speeding up the review and the design, getting ready for construction, we intend to do that to make sure that the people in the Northwest Territories benefit from this project as quickly as possible. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Michael Miltenberger. Mr. Speaker, I hope that in my Member’s statement I didn’t confuse Members as to how our health benefit program is working in the Northwest Territories. When I started looking into it, it was certainly confusing to me. Maybe the Minister has an example like the water glass to make it simple for everybody here.

As I alluded to in my Member’s statement, I don’t believe that our government is doing everything it can to provide adequate health care coverage for aboriginal seniors who are covered under the non-insured health care benefits program of the federal government. Can the Minister please indicate if he is aware of the disparity that exists for aboriginal persons as far as their coverage under the NIHB program versus coverage offered to Metis and non-aboriginal seniors? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Return To Question 16-15(2): Health Coverage For Aboriginal Seniors

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am aware that the system of supplementary health benefits that we have has been with us for some time and it is patchwork of programs such as the non-insured health benefits which, in itself, is another program we administer for the federal government that we have significant problems with, along with our colleagues in Nunavut. Through the review of supplementary health benefits and with the meetings with federal health Ministers, and most recently Minister Pettigrew, we once again raised the issue of the need to sit down and look at non-insured health benefits. There were meetings last week in Ottawa with officials meeting once again on health benefits and health concerns. Yes, I recognize the issues in that area and others, and that’s one reason we are doing the review and we want to continue. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Delorey.

Supplementary To Question 16-15(2): Health Coverage For Aboriginal Seniors