Debates of January 21, 2004 (day 2)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Metis program of health benefits was instituted in 1997 to offer Metis people similar benefits to status persons, but it wasn’t 100 per cent coverage. Since April of 2002, Metis persons have since been provided 100 per cent coverage under this program and it’s administered through our government. Will the Minister please state in this House if there are any negotiations -- and he just mentioned the federal government -- underway to enable our government to provide the same level of health care coverage to status persons that is currently provided to Metis people? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 16-15(2): Health Coverage For Aboriginal Seniors

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Sorry, I apologize, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Metis health benefits are the benefits provided under non-insured health benefits. The one big benefit that we do have in the Northwest Territories is we don’t have the cumbersome federal bureaucracy and rules and payment process that is in place with non-insured health benefits. So we have ours administered through Blue Cross. We have an arrangement with them for the administration and processing. The Metis benefits mirror the non-insured health benefits.

Supplementary, Mr. Delorey.

Supplementary To Question 16-15(2): Health Coverage For Aboriginal Seniors

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it’s very confusing. I can see why it’s so confusing for seniors when they are trying to see where their benefits come from. Is there any move on the government’s part to bring in a program where all seniors or all people are treated equally under the health care plan? Right now, there are about four different ones that seniors especially are trying to find out where they fit into. Is there any move to try to bring everybody under the same umbrella? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 16-15(2): Health Coverage For Aboriginal Seniors

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I referenced earlier, the supplementary health benefits review that’s underway, its sole intention is to try to rationalize and consolidate those services that we now provide where there are consistencies that developed in an uncoordinated and a patchwork manner. So this is to level the playing field. We must keep in mind that on the non-insured health benefits side, that is a federal program. It is tied to aboriginal First Nations people, Inuit people. It’s a program that is very sensitive when it comes to making changes. We are working with the federal government and we will work with the aboriginal governments to look at what we can do to improve the non-insured health benefits. On the territorial programs, we definitely want to move towards a more rationalized, consolidated system. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Final supplementary, Mr. Delorey.

Supplementary To Question 16-15(2): Health Coverage For Aboriginal Seniors

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, just to put a little bit more perspective on this subject, if I understand this correctly, a non-aboriginal senior, for example, can move into the Northwest Territories after not having lived there ever before in their life, and after three months of residency, they qualify for full health care benefits under the GNWT seniors program. That seniors program covers everything from prescriptions to mobility aids right down to multivitamins and band aids. Conversely, an aboriginal senior who may have lived here all their life is not entitled to apply for GNWT seniors health care benefits. Their only option is to apply for NIHB, which does not cover near as much.

If that is correct, Mr. Speaker, does the Minister not think that it’s time that we have a look at this and do something in the very near future? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 16-15(2): Health Coverage For Aboriginal Seniors

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In fact, yes, if that was correct I would agree that we want to look at that very specific issue. I recognize that there are inconsistencies in the program, but once again, my information is that when it comes to seniors, benefits are intended to mirror the services provided by the non-insured health benefits. That was the baseline that we used. But I do recognize, as the Member has pointed out in his questions, that we do have problems in the system that is currently there and we intend to look into that and ways that we can rectify it for all northerners.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I’d like to address my question to the Minister of RWED, further to my Member’s statement earlier today. Mr. Speaker, may I ask the Minister whether or not he has had a chance to review this department’s policy or directive to the contractor and whether or not he has considered changing this policy? Thank you.

The Minister of RWED, Mr. Bell.

Return To Question 17-15(2): GNWT Parks Use Policy

I thank the Member for the very good question, Mr. Speaker. It’s one I do recall putting to the former Minister of RWED myself. I am familiar with it, both in that capacity and in my new capacity. I have had a chance to review it. I should first state that this is nothing unique to the campground at Fred Henne Park. This is a regulation that applies to all territorial parks. But the particular pressure point has been the lack of capacity here in Yellowknife. It is something that we’re looking at. It is something that I am prepared to come back to committee and discuss. I think we all want to see something, a regulation that is flexible enough and allows us to make sure that tourists have a place to stay when they come to the city or to the NWT. We don’t want to see tourists turned away because we don’t have the space.

I think the long-term solution is not about the regulation, but it’s about finding adequate RV parking in particular around the city of Yellowknife. I’m aware that that’s something the City of Yellowknife has been discussing. I hope they continue to do that. I believe the Fred Henne Park is inadequate in this regard, at any rate.

But, yes, we need regulations that make sense and will accommodate tourists and yet still allow locals to enjoy our parks. So it’s something that I’m prepared to sit down and discuss with committee Members. Thank you.

Supplementary. Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 17-15(2): GNWT Parks Use Policy

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the Minister’s answer. At the same time, I do believe this is a first test for the Minister. Often we have Members who cross the floor. They’re very well aware of the issues that we bring up and I know that the Minister is very well aware of this issue. So far, he’s answered in length without making any commitment at all.

---Laughter

I believe, Mr. Speaker, there is plenty of room for action that he could take immediately. I know he understands the need for extra space; this is not an unusual thing. But for right now, this summer, for many of our residents there is something that he can do to fix this and that is to make sure that any available spaces, after the visitors and all the residents who have not taken their two weeks have taken their lots…There should be no empty spaces that residents should not be allowed to use. So would the Minister please change that immediately? Thank you.

The Minister of RWED, Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 17-15(2): GNWT Parks Use Policy

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thought I was doing pretty good by committing to come back to committee. I thought that in itself would reassure the Member, especially after the nice things she said about me in her Member’s statement today.

---Laughter

However, I can see that’s not going to get it done. We will have that discussion, I hope. I hope committee is prepared to sit down and come up with something that does make sense. I think the problem really is that during the week there are all kinds of vacancies at Fred Henne, typically. By the weekend it’s very full. It’s over full. The problem is that if we were to make a regulation that allowed people to stay during the week and ask them to leave on the weekend if it was full, you would be in a position where you would have to go around the campground and ask people to leave. I don’t think that would be workable or fair.

If we allow local residents to take up those spots because no one is in them, what do you do when somebody shows up at 8:00 at night after a long trip up Highway No. 3 and is looking for a camping spot? You’ve got to make allowances that still let local people enjoy the campground while making sure we can accommodate tourists.

We have opened up additional spots this year at both Prelude and Reid Lakes. I know that may not reassure the Member. That may not take care of everybody’s concerns, but we are looking for solutions. There are a number of possibilities we can discuss. It’s possible at the peak times in the middle of summer we need to still keep these regulations, but we might look at relaxing them during the shoulder seasons when we’re not as busy. I’m prepared to discuss a whole range of options with committee and see if we can’t come up with something that would work right across the territory. Thank you.

Supplementary. Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 17-15(2): GNWT Parks Use Policy

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I do not believe that the Minister needs to bring this to committee for discussion. I do believe that the Minister is already aware that the previous Minister has been reviewing this policy for at least three years, at least three summers. The Minister already knows all of the issues pertaining to that policy. What I’m looking for from the Minister is, will he consider a tier system, a category system where priority is given to the visitors, but wherever there are vacancies the local people can take them and not have to drive by and look at empty spaces that they want overnight? I need a yes or no answer. He doesn’t need to do any more studies on this. I don’t think it’s relevant to any other Members other than Yellowknife Members here. Thank you.

The Minister of RWED, Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 17-15(2): GNWT Parks Use Policy

Thank you. We may like to think that it’s only relevant to Yellowknife, but I know this is an issue in Hay River, as well. It’s something that’s been raised with the department. We have to come up with a solution that works across the territory. We don’t want to see people drive by the park and look at vacancies and be told that they can’t camp. We’ve got to be reasonable. There has to be some way to accommodate tourists and locals in the same regulation. I’m prepared to come up with a regulation that will work.

If the committee is not interested in that discussion, we can do this internally, but I think this is something that makes sense for all committee Members to have some input into. I am prepared to come up with something that makes sense and works and allows us to accommodate both tourists and locals and, as I’ve said, we can discuss a number of systems. I’d be interested in hearing more about the tiered approach that the Member has referred to, but I think there could also be a shoulder system developed that would alleviate some of the pressure. Really, the problem is in the heat of summer. Thank you.

Final Supplementary. Ms. Lee. Keep it short.

Supplementary To Question 17-15(2): GNWT Parks Use Policy

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I’m aware that I cannot speak for the committee and I understand that our committee Members would like to see changes to regulations brought to them first. What I’m saying is that my experience has been that when a Minister says he wants to consult and review, that is just an excuse for inaction.

I’m telling you that allowing for more than two weeks’ stay in shoulder seasons, between May and June when there is still snow on the ground or in August to September when all the kids are back in school, is no good to us. What I’m interested in knowing is what is his intention with regard to this policy or is he just using the age-old formula that every other Minister uses, which is that they would just study and review issues to death? I want to know his intentions. Thank you.

The Minister of RWED, Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 17-15(2): GNWT Parks Use Policy

Thank you. Clearly, my intentions wouldn’t be honourable if I was going to sit here and tell you that the shoulder season was mid-winter, but that’s not what I’m going to do. I’m going to go back to the department, ask them to develop some regulations that would incorporate the shoulder season in the spring and fall when people are still camping at the park. But we’ve got to recognize that in the middle of summer, until we have the capacity to handle all the RV traffic that we see locally, there’s going to have to be some compromise. I think the constituents that I spoke to in the last Assembly understood the rationale, but were looking for a more workable solution, something that was more accommodating and flexible. Nobody I spoke with thought that it made sense to clog up those sites with locals and ensure that tourists had nowhere to camp when they arrived.

So I certainly will commit to the Member that we’re working internally to develop some regulations that make sense. I’m aware of the concerns. I have the same concerns as the Member and we’re going to work to alleviate those. I will come back to committee with a proposal and hope to get support from committee and then we’ll move forward quickly. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I took a vested interest in listening to the Finance Minister’s budget process update and feel that, with the number of problems he encounters in the revenue and expenditure section, I’ve made a few comments on how we should encourage the government to introduce tax exemptions to improve upon that kind of development for our residents of the Northwest Territories. So my question to the Minister is whether he is prepared to introduce new tax exemption mechanisms and, if so, how does he intend to implement this new initiative? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Minister responsible for FMBS, Finance, Mr. Roland.

Return To Question 18-15(2): NWT Tax Exemption Options

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I stated, the government is going to have to look at the whole expenditure side, as well as the revenue side, to try to come up with a balance of how much debt we’re going to carry and go forward from there. Mr. Speaker, there are some options that are out there that we can look at. Mr. Speaker, our problem right now is that we don’t have enough revenues to deal with our fiscal situation. So we’re going to have to look at how we can come up with revenues, and if Mr. Allen has some suggestions for areas that we can look at that would create some more revenues then we would gladly take that into consideration.

In reference to Bill C-48 that was dealt with by the federal government and responds to concerns raised by the industry in the resource sector. They have undertaken some initiatives and I’m not very familiar with that area, but we’d have to look at that. My immediate concern in preparing for our next step in bringing main estimates forward for this Assembly is to look at the level of expenditures versus our revenue side. As I stated in my Minister’s statement, in fact we do have a problem and the gap is widening between the revenues we have and the expenditures.

So right now we haven’t looked at any specific exemptions. We have looked at a number of other areas, but not any exemptions. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary. Mr. Allen.

Supplementary To Question 18-15(2): NWT Tax Exemption Options

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I acknowledge the fact that we had a briefing on the statistics of the Northwest Territories and some of the costs that are related to that. It leaves no doubt that our communities, Mr. Speaker, are in a sad state of economic and social development today. Again, I would ask the Minister of Finance if he is willing and able to formulate tax policy that would stimulate that systemic change to the economic and social development of this territory. Thank you.

The Minister of Finance, Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 18-15(2): NWT Tax Exemption Options

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Definitely, I would be interested in looking at our tax policies and see how they could spur some further economic development, for example, or how they could impact on social wellbeing of residents of the Northwest Territories. But we must also understand that there’s a cost to doing some of these things and because our revenue base isn’t a very large one, those have an immediate impact on other programs and services. I’m willing to look at tax solutions out there that could lessen the impact to the residents of the Northwest Territories, but at the same time we must balance that off with what level of expenditures we’re willing to make in other program areas. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary. Mr. Allen.

Supplementary To Question 18-15(2): NWT Tax Exemption Options

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will be tabling a couple of documents later this afternoon. I would make reference to the fact that we have the ability to introduce some tax exemptions that would help us facilitate social and economic growth in the Northwest Territories. Again, I would ask the Minister if he would elaborate for the benefit of the people of the Northwest Territories if he’s willing to adopt new tax initiatives that would be part of the strategy to improve operational efficiencies in economies throughout the North? Thank you.

The Minister of Finance, Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 18-15(2): NWT Tax Exemption Options

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I stated earlier, I would be glad to sit down and look at the information provided. We are, as government, looking at a whole number of options to enhance our budget or look at creating and stimulating some development in the Northwest Territories, provided that we do not lose from our revenue base and impact other programs and services that we deliver as a government. Thank you.

Final supplementary. Mr. Allen.

Supplementary To Question 18-15(2): NWT Tax Exemption Options

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. With all due respect, I know the difficulty that the Finance Minister is faced with, considering our fiscal situation. But would he now assist in facilitating a number of tax reform meetings specific to Inuvik and perhaps if we could coordinate jointly a tax reform forum in Inuvik to get some further ideas? Thank you.

The Minister of Finance, Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 18-15(2): NWT Tax Exemption Options

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would gladly meet with Members of this House in their communities or in committees to discuss options that are available to us as government that could enhance the programs and services we have available or lessen the impact of the cost of living in the Northwest Territories. At the same time, we must look at the whole picture as a government and see what balance we can strike. I would gladly meet with the Member and discuss the initiatives he’s discussed and see how we can move those along. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Finance, Mr. Roland. I know everybody has been hearing a little bit more back room grumblings about the growing inequities in the employment within the mining industry of aboriginals and northerners; that the mining industry is reaching a point where they’re just barely meeting their quota for northern employment. With the growing number of mines that are going to be opening in the future, I think this gap is going to keep growing. My question, Mr. Speaker, is that I’ve been hearing some concerns from some employees of these mining industries that some non-resident employees are taking advantage of our northern taxation policies. I know changes in these policies are also being hindered by the Government of Canada’s taxation harmonization policy. That’s why we’re having a hard time recovering more dollars from non-resident employees and making it more fair and equitable for our northerners.

The issue I want to raise with the Minister is that I know that a lot of the non-resident employees of these mining companies are starting to take up residence just north of the NWT border in areas like Hay River, Enterprise and Fort Smith. That makes them qualify for these northern allowance benefits. Every two weeks there’s a mass exodus going south after the shift changes. People are just taking addresses and filling them out on their application forms to the mines that are situated in these communities, which qualifies them for the northern benefit allowances.

I just want to ask the Minister what measures he is going to make to ensure that the northern allowance benefits are taken advantage of by northerners only, and not by southern employees who do not reside in the NWT on a full-time basis. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

The Minister of Finance, Mr. Roland.

Return To Question 19-15(2): Non-Resident Mining Industry Employees

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to thank the Member for that question. It’s an area that has been a bit of an issue through a number of Assemblies from the day the payroll tax was put in place. Many northern businesses felt that it was an added cost to them. The government itself wanted to ensure that we tried to encourage employees who were working from other jurisdictions to live in the Northwest Territories so we could benefit in a number of ways by them taking up residence in the Northwest Territories, and also to encourage businesses to hire northern residents and put them into gainful employment.

There are things that we have done. It’s admittedly in an area that has some issues. We have looked at a number of issues across the board around the payroll tax and how we’re affected by harmonization of tax policies across the country, but it is an area that we see as one of the avenues to try to…If we can't have employees working at the mines living in the Northwest Territories, then we will keep this tax in place and look at enhancing it, possibly, as one of the ways to try to bring some money back to the North that we're not getting through royalties, for example, or other areas. There are a number of options, but in the area itself of payroll tax, it has its problems. It's something we need to continue to work out, but it is based on residency in the Northwest Territories. So if someone works for a mine or a company in the Northwest Territories and does take up residence in the Northwest Territories, they would qualify for that rebate, for the credit, depending on the income that they make. So if they've moved to the North and taken up residence here, that benefits us in a number of ways. One, it increases our grant from Canada because we have a higher population but, as well, most of the money would stay in the North. If the Member is referring to the fact that people are taking up an address but not really living at it, that's something we need to follow up on and get more detail on. If the Member has some specific information he'd like to meet with me on, I'll gladly meet with him. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Supplementary To Question 19-15(2): Non-Resident Mining Industry Employees

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I know that the payroll tax is something of an unknown for this government in making any real change in it because of this harmonization policy. What I'm getting at, Mr. Speaker, is I'm just wondering how the Minister intends on making some positive policy changes that would curb the practice of employees in the mine, like you would get 10 or 20 employees with the same address. They're all living in the NWT but they all have the same address. It basically just goes to show they've found a loophole in our taxation policies, and I'm just wondering how the Minister plans on addressing that. Thank you.

Minister of Finance, Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 19-15(2): Non-Resident Mining Industry Employees