Debates of June 1, 2005 (day 6)

There is a motion on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Braden.

Mr. Chairman, I am afraid I won’t oblige some of my colleagues with letting this one go quite yet. This motion is proposed, from my point of view, for a number of reasons. We have had considerable dialogue here over many days, every day of this session, and I am not going to spend any more time going over ground in any detail. I am going to try to give some highlights though, Mr. Chairman.

When I first offered some remarks in a media interview for this, I indicated support for the idea as has been mentioned that was brought before committee and has been attached to the need for upgrading this facility. I expressed my support for the idea that the facility could go to Hay River. This was very much in the spirit on a territory-wide basis of seeing something that could perhaps have been done in a way that would have helped a lot of people out. It would have been a tough decision but had the potential to be a good one. I found out that I was really caught in the crossfire on that one because coming back into the House here, the Minister of Health and Social Services said to us it’s a done deal. A decision has been made.

This leads up to probably one of the main reasons I feel this motion has to be put forward, Mr. Chairman. That is the protocol and convention that we have to be able to rely on in this House if we are going to be able to function as independent Members working to our best ability on behalf of our constituents. But when Ministers do not think that is significant enough to be brought forward to a Member and a standing committee when a decision is in place, not just an idea or concept, but a decision is in place, we’ve been let down. It’s astonishing.

The debate here over the last 10 minutes or so has really been quite astonishing because we have a Minister of Finance responsible for the supp saying everything is fine, we are within our procedures. We are within the FMB guidelines on this because we are now asking you for permission to go ahead with this change.

What have we been listening to here for the last six days, Mr. Chairman? The Minister of Health and Social Services stands up here solid as an oak saying it’s a done deal. What position are we in when one Minister says forget about it, folks, it’s a done deal and we are doing it? Then the Minister of Finance comes before us and says we are asking your position now. That’s why this motion is before this House right now. We’ve got to get that squared around.

Then, Mr. Chairman, is the matter of people first. I would go to the Department of Health and Social Services own establishment policy. There are seven objectives there. Number seven says that people first should be one of the guiding principles of establishing health care facilities. Forty percent, we’re advised, of the referrals to the Territorial Treatment Centre are from Yellowknife. About another third are from communities to the north of Yellowknife. Yet we are talking about relocating a facility even further to the south, further away from the vast majority of people who are referred to this facility, Mr. Chairman. How can this be people first?

As you have advised us, Mr. Chairman -- and I thank you for your counsel and for your advice here, I am going to use my words carefully -- we are at variance with policies all over the map. The last thing I want to make in reference to this, Mr. Chairman, I will go back to the policy of the FMB which sets out dollar limits of $100,000 or 20 percent of a project, or timing a year or more delay. We have been told that this is now 18 months away from now, but we approved this money more than a year ago, yet it’s okay that standing committee members and MLAs were not advised.

I have one other thing that I know has got to be put on the table here and that’s jobs. When jobs are affected, what about telling MLAs when jobs are affected in their community? These may not be direct government jobs, Mr. Chairman, but they are under the direct contracting of this government. I think that qualifies us for notification. Members opposite, when they were here in other turfs, Mr. Chairman, I remember some very, very noisy debate in this Assembly. When as few as a single job was affected in a community, there was hell to pay. There are 17 jobs here, yet it’s okay not to get any notice.

That is why this motion is before committee right now, Mr. Chairman. I would urge my colleagues, from whatever part of the territory they represent, to look at the message that we have to send to our colleagues opposite to give us a sense of confidence again that we are going to have some protocols, hard rules that we have confidence in. I am prepared absolutely every day when I come to work to help make some tough decisions, but I am also expecting that I am going to be able to be involved in some tough consultations to help do that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. To the motion. Mr. Villeneuve.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will be brief with respect to the committee motion that’s before us. I have to agree with the other Members about the process by which this change has been brought about is definitely not in accordance with the directives that are clearly stated in the Financial Administration Manual.

On the flip side, I have constituents I have to answer to and who have definitely expressed their support for this initiative. That is the one reason I just can’t support this motion. I don’t think even something like this would have even come about if we had this much compassion about the issue when Dene K’onia was closing and there were 27 jobs that were on the line in the South Slave region. If we had kept that place operating today, which operated for way more than 10 years that this program has been operating in Yellowknife, I think the operation there is 25 years in the making and that was quite quickly shut down and moved over to the capital without too much fuss on the Yellowknife MLAs’ side of the table.

With that, I don’t think these 17 people are going to be totally out of pocket when it comes to finding other positions in the capital because the opportunities available here in Yellowknife are way higher and more available than they are in the other regional centres, South Slave included. Therefore, I would think a lot of these professionals would easily find other employment opportunities in the capital and even have the option of moving to Hay River where this operation is going to continue anyway. I don’t think it’s going to be too much of a culture shock just moving south of the lake.

I don’t really like the process which was followed, but I have to follow what my constituents are telling me. Many of them have families who have operated in the old centre and will hopefully be re-employed with this new initiative. A lot of them have relatives in Fort Resolution that are directly impacted by this whole Territorial Treatment Centre initiative. I am sure their support for it is really appropriate on my side. That’s why I just can’t support this motion.

With the other argument of due process, I think there are definitely some questions that have to be answered on that side of the coin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. To the motion. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In accordance with Rule 6(2), I move that we continue sitting beyond the hour of daily adjournment to continue consideration of Bill 1, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 2005-2006.

The motion to extend sitting hours is in order. It is not debateable. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

We will extend the hours to continue debate. Thank you. Back to the motion. To the motion. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I’m going to support my colleague's Mr. Braden's motion that’s before us today for a number of reasons. First of all, being the fact that I am 100 percent convinced that this happened for all the wrong reasons and none of the right reasons. When you’re conducting government business, I’d like to see things conducted in an open, honest and transparent fashion. This, to me, has been outside the normal course of doing business. I don’t understand why it couldn’t go through the proper channels, like I mentioned. I won’t rehash all of this, but it shows up in a budget in 2004-05, disappears for an entire fiscal year, is not in the business plan last year, and all of a sudden comes back.

The Minister of Health and Social Services has talked about the process taking 18 months. Why don’t we send it back to the Social Programs committee and let it run its course? Put it through a business planning process or business planning cycle and see what happens. What have we got to lose by doing things the right way and the proper way they should be done? This was not done the right way.

I know I could argue for quite some time on whether or not any of these directives were broken or skirted or whatever you want to call it. In my mind, they were. I know the Minister says they weren’t. I know Mr. Voytilla says they weren’t. But we’re arguing over what the intention of these directives are and, in my mind, coming back here and asking us for approval is just…All the information, Mr. Chairman, that we got was last night, late last night. So now we’re coming back here today expected to make a decision on a supplementary that includes money for Dene K’onia and how long have we had what little information we’ve had, Mr. Chairman? Less than 24 hours and we’re expected to make a decision, Mr. Chairman.

It should just run its course through the normal process. Just because it’s Yellowknife and we’re going to lose some jobs, we’re going to lose a vital program to the community here in Yellowknife. It seems me just because it’s Yellowknife, well, you know, some of the Members and even our own government is saying well, we’ll put it in Hay River. It’s just Yellowknife, they can live with it. To me that’s not good enough, Mr. Chairman. We have people out here and we have a program that we have to support. It’s one of the few programs that we have that actually works and helps young people. I don’t understand why a decision like this couldn’t follow the normal course of due process. That’s all I ask for.

I agree with my colleague from Great Slave that I would be supportive of programs moving. Show us the information. Consult with us. Show us how it makes sense. Work with us. That’s all we ask, Mr. Chairman. In this case we didn’t get that consultation. That’s the reason why I’m supporting this motion for the deletion of the $505,000. Let it run its due course. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. To the motion. Next I have Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I know my honourable colleagues have made strong statements for the last week or last couple weeks with regard to the transfer of the Territorial Treatment Centre to Hay River. With regard to that and with regard to this motion specifically, Mr. Chairman, I am going to have to say that I cannot support this motion. It’s just that my mandate, as an elected representative from the Nahendeh riding, is to be supportive of decentralization and I will maintain that mandate and champion it at every opportunity that I can. It was really disheartening to have the 27 jobs removed from the Hay River riding and here I see an opportunity to replace them. I’m supportive of it and I think it is a good thing. That’s where I stand with regard to this motion. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. To the motion. I have Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The whole process of this decentralization is somewhat confusing for me because the first time I really did notice it was when I saw it in the newspaper and I’m not too sure we had the opportunity to have some discussion with our community members or in our region. What’s more startling is that I found 25 percent of the referrals are from Inuvik and the Sahtu and 40 percent are from the community of Yellowknife.

This is a Territorial Treatment Centre. I support the decentralization policy this government has undertaken and that there are a lot of our youth in small communities that need this program. There’s only 25 percent from two regions that are in this territorial treatment program. If anything, we should have some discussion on how to move these programs back into our regions for our communities where there’s a high number of kids that need this program in our community regions. But there is a big percentage of referrals from Yellowknife here. Somewhere we’re not receiving the same level of services in the smaller communities as the people in the city of Yellowknife, yet this is a Territorial Treatment Centre. Somewhere it’s not making sense.

I’m somewhat dissatisfied with the process that it went through, in terms of how this has come about. I thought we were making some good headway in working with the other side in terms of keeping us involved. There are some projects that you have our comments and input in and in others it shows up like this.

Again, it’s a program that’s being moved to outside the capital city here and it’s a territorial program, so again for me the decentralization of the government…I hope that we’re going to see decentralization into our regions, not just one program. There are lots of misconceptions maybe out there or half truths or truths as to why this program is going to the Dene K’onia facility in Hay River. I don’t know those reasons. Only Cabinet knows and Cabinet is moving it. For myself, I certainly would like to see this kind of program in larger centres coming to our regions and have those kinds of services for our people up in the Sahtu. At least I speak for my people that that’s what they want to see. Sometimes it takes a lot of complaining, a lot of debates to get programs moved into our region. But something like this goes really fast. I don’t know what’s going on here, so I’m having some difficulty in terms of how this was done and this amount of money.

For me and my people, I guess they’re kind of wondering how the system works. For that reason, on those points, Mr. Chairman, I need more information. I guess I read some stuff. I agree with some points the Members have made and some points I don’t agree with. On that point, I’m going abstain on this motion here because I need more time to read this. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. To the motion. I have Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am going to be supporting this motion and in my comments I really do not want to express in that this is a Yellowknife-versus-other-communities issue. I don’t think that sort of debate enhances the work that we do in this Assembly, and I hope that in all decisions I make in this House that it is not ever about one community versus another community.

I am sympathetic to those who lost their jobs in Hay River. I don’t think that because Hay River people lost jobs now it’s time for Yellowknife people to lose their jobs so that the Hay River people could get their jobs back. I really do not like the fact that we have to have our debate going in that direction.

I believe that if the Members in this House – and I know it’s difficult in this job to pay attention to everything that’s going on and read everything that comes before you, I find it hard myself, too – but if we could just take a few minutes to listen to the other Members about the arguments that are being made, I think that there is a lot to be learned. In fact, someone called me last night asking…People out there can see that this seems to be some kind of a Yellowknife-versus-other-communities debate and they can’t understand why we can’t move beyond that. I hope that we can do the same.

No matter where you lose your jobs, all of us are here to represent our own constituents. But we are also here for the good of the Territories. A person losing a job in one place is as bad as another. The people that are losing jobs at the Territorial Treatment Centre are not going to feel any better that because they live in a big city that it’s okay.

Mr. Roland stated earlier that a lack of specialist services is something that goes on in all other communities, so it should be no big deal that these children will go to Hay River and that they’ll be sent to Yellowknife on an as-needed basis. I’m telling you, that is just one of the kinds of things that people here are not listening to. I understand that we don’t have specialists in all the places. I guess my point here is that it’s not about jobs, it’s not about Yellowknife versus whoever. Some community lost their jobs, it’s time for payback. That is the worst kind of politics. I mean, it’s about time that we listened to each other and see that this is about children. These are children in that centre, and I’ve said this many, many times and obviously Mr. Roland is not listening to that and maybe other people are not either. I’m telling you these children need services on a regular basis. It’s not on an as-needed basis. They’re in a very strict, intensive, 24-hour residential treatment program.

One of the services that children use is a psychiatrist service, child psychiatrist. We have one psychiatrist in the Northwest Territories who is leaving. We have somebody who comes up here from Edmonton. He comes up once a month for three days. He spends 1.5 days at this centre and the other 1.5 days he spends with other clients from across the Territories. He spends 1.5 days for eight kids in that centre. There’s nothing that the Minister and the Premier have indicated that says that these children are going to get this program.

Decentralization is when you move petroleum products to Fort Simpson, when you move registration of health insurance cards to Inuvik. Those are government jobs, government programs and we speak as a government that we need to spread things around. The last time that sort of decentralization was done, I think was in the 11th Assembly. We have never had that sort of discussion here and for the Cabinet Ministers to move this money around, lapse the money, let’s move it around because somebody else suffered and it’s time for payback and these people that lose these jobs in Yellowknife, they can find other jobs anyway. As if their jobs don’t really matter because they live in a bigger community. I can tell you that these people are trained for these specific positions and they do not have readily available jobs to go to.

The question about how they were advised about this is another thing altogether. The reason why there are 50 percent of residents there from Yellowknife isn’t because Yellowknife is favoured, it’s just that there are 50 percent of people that live here and chances are there are going to be more kids who need that service.

Anyway, I guess once you’re a Yellowknife Member you have to bear that burden, but I do hope that we can look at this from a program point of view and the client’s point of view and not look at it as a political back and forth and something that we can do because we can. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. To the motion. I have Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Decentralization for decentralization should not be considered a mandate or a policy that we should live by. I’m concerned that we’re moving this because, first and foremost, we have a facility in Fort Smith already and if it was a matter of establishing a facility in Hay River to make them feel good about their potential loss and maybe move forward for that, then maybe we should be moving the one from Fort Smith there. I don’t know. We talk about spreading things around equitably, well, we have one in the South Slave already. Now we’re going to have two in the South Slave, none in the centre and none in the North.

The Premier the other day had said, you know, other options could have come up. I think he pointed to 10 or 20, maybe 50 other options that we could have come forward with if we needed to fill that facility. I don’t know why we’re in such a rush to fill that facility. We’ve got to fill it at any cost and right now the cost is starting with $3.3 million and a bunch of kids. Can we ever equate that true cost? I don’t think so.

I think decentralization for decentralization’s sake without a business plan doesn’t make any sense. I think our policy should say stuff like when we’re creating a new service we should look into the communities and ask how we can establish it there in a reasonable way. That should be what our policy should say. It should say look, let’s see if we can establish something wherever necessary and if not, then we’ll fall back into the Yellowknife region or the Inuvik region or the Hay River region, in that type of order. But I don’t know.

We have to keep in mind this is a cinderblock facility. It’s a jail. We’re going to be spending a lot of money to convert it to suit children. I think that alone, the stigma that we’re now sending the kids from a treatment centre to a jail, I think that’s a laughable situation. I don’t think that’s fair to them at all to give them the fresh start or the fair start that they deserve or the support. I don’t want to see us sending these kids to that place. So we have to convert a building with bricks, cinder and mortar, concrete and bars, into a treatment centre. That’s just plain old wrong. I don’t know why people are having trouble with that.

It’s not just to bolster the community. We could have found things and I’m sure if we put a little thought behind it, maybe if there was an engagement on this side of the House we could have figured out how, if we needed to fill that facility, maybe someone could have called the AOC committee to come up with ideas of what we could put there. But no, there was no discussion on this side of the House. This was a unilateral decision made by Cabinet and it wasn’t even used with the proposal of some type of consultant out there consulting the services, the people that would be affected, the families that would be affected.

I don’t endorse this because a discussion paper came forward. Well, speaking of a discussion paper, I mean, I got a one-inch piece of paper there last night that came under the cloak of darkness and I have to now become an expert on this thing within a couple of hours. When it hits my table and makes a thud, I haven’t had a chance to read this. Here we are, it’s before us, this is a decision before Cabinet. We’ve been asking for a week on details of this. Oh, don’t worry, the information’s coming. Well, it’s almost too late for us to make a decision without getting a chance to get a full briefing on what we’re truly deciding on, other than the fact that we’re just going to move it. Suck it up, we’re going to move it and like it. Oh well, we better decentralize. Well, there’s been no business plan and no talking to these families about this.

The reality of the game here we have to ask ourselves is, do we establish every service we have in Yellowknife in every community? I don’t know if that’s considered reasonable. I don’t think we could ever get to that stage. We have to look at a critical mass to help everyone. There was no business case on this.

Is this a fair trade up? I think this is a shell game to make maybe one or two Members go away. Maybe it’s to make four or five Members go away. I don’t know. It seems like a shell game. I go back to the fact that there was no consultation on our side of the House. It’s funny because the executive side of the House tends to play this, well, we’re a consensus government when they want, but then it’s almost like a government in power when we want. So some days I have difficulty. It’s like they want to wear two hats. We’re consensus when we want your three votes, but certainly not a consensus government when we can make a Cabinet decision without consulting. I think that speaks to the principle of why I’m against this, is of zero consultation.

The bottom line is I’ll be voting in favour of this motion and I’m a little disappointed on how this came about. I think Cabinet when they vote against this or they don’t even vote showing their lack of respect for us for putting this motion forward by Mr. Braden, I think maybe they should carry that home and think about that tonight that maybe consultation is an important key, we should try it on this side of the House. I know it’s almost like a cliff jumper idea, but it’s time that we hear some of these decisions, these big moves, these expensive moves, these paradigm shifting moves, get some air and a little bit of discussion on this side of the House.

For now, Mr. Chairman, I think I’ve said more than enough, probably too much, but the bottom line is I’ll be voting in favour of this motion. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for your time.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. To the motion.

Question.

The motion is in order.

Question.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? All those abstaining? Thank you. The motion is defeated.

---Defeated

We’re on page 27, Health and Social Services, capital investment expenditures, health services programs, not previously authorized, $3.260 million.

Agreed.

Page 28, Health and Social Services continued, capital investment expenditures, health services programs continued, not previously authorized; I’m sorry, community health programs, not previously authorized, $146,000.

Agreed.

Total department, special warrants, $577,000. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a couple of questions regarding the Frame Lake Family Physicians clinic that originally was scheduled to cost $300,000 and now it has doubled and it’s looking like it’s going to cost three-quarters of $1 million, and that’s just for leasehold improvements or tenant improvements in the location that they are in at Stanton Plaza, or not Stanton Plaza, I forget the name of the building, it’s the Rick's Holdings building by the SAAN store here in Yellowknife. Why does it cost three-quarters of $1 million for tenant improvements in a building when they don’t even own the building and what are they getting for three-quarters of $1 million in terms of tenant improvements? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the project had increased and it expanded for that facility, which was to increase the client space from 1,500 square feet to 4,300 square feet. As well, there’s a construction of a mezzanine that will increase useable floor space by approximately another 2,300 square feet for total space of 6,500 square feet and that’s primarily the reason why the cost has increased. The Minister of Health and Social Services may have further detail on that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Minister Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, there is a plan that sees Frame Lake clinic getting upgraded to provide better service to have more exam rooms, to be able to do things clinics can do as well. We’re working on a consolidation in the downtown area to integrate the clinic capacity in the downtown core that is going to see, once again, more effective use of the staff and more exam rooms and capacity to provide services that are currently provided at Stanton that should be provided in clinics. So those combined are part of the plan to shorten wait times, improve access to doctors, to allow the staff to have enough exam rooms to in fact do the job without waiting, and to basically be able to provide a better service and shorten the wait lists. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just one other question. I have some more questions regarding the medical clinics in Yellowknife, and perhaps I can ask the Minister that at another time as it is not appropriate right now. But one of the questions that does pertain to this is the fund that is coming over from I think it says it’s going to be offset by $400,000 from the Yellowknife health authority. Where are they getting that money for the renovations because, if I’m not mistaken, the renovations at Great Slave Medical House came from some federal funding that they got? Is this some money that they just have sitting around, or is it money we’ve given them and they are just giving it back to us? How does that work? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the $400,000 will be contributed by the health authority. It comes out of a surplus that they have in their budget, and our retention policy with surplus is that the health board gets to keep 50 percent of it and the rest gets returned to us. So out of their surplus they are going to pay for the extra portion. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The additional funding required to complete the project is something perhaps the Minister could help me understand. Was that anticipated or was it because -- I noted he had additional extra costs to the Frame Lake Family Physicians clinic in Yellowknife -- they wanted additional space, or what justifies an increase of $400,000 to the family clinic, Mr. Chair? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the project that initially got started on was identified for the $350,000. As the project was proceeding, the Yellowknife Health and Social Services Authority wanted to further increase the space that they were working on and made the arrangements with the department to put more money into it. So this is the way we are recording it, is under their initiative it was to further increase the size of the project, the floor space, the offices, at their request, and they’re in agreement that they would put the $400,000 into it. But we do have to account for the total increased costs of that project and this is the way we’ve done it. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I guess that’s where you get into the smaller regions versus Yellowknife. Lots of money is going into essentially what our regions are asking for: clinics or additional housing for physicians or staff professionals to get into a region and you put this kind of money into here and that’s what the perceptions out in the community is being viewed as. So I guess they look at the government’s priorities in terms of its spending and hope it will change in the future. This is something that I’m not quite comfortable with in terms of the explanation. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mahsi, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the department has been working on redoing how it uses its space within this city. There were a number of clinics that were private that were taken into the Department of Health and Social Services so that they could better coordinate and use the services of the doctors in a more efficient manner. That started the work that is going on and since then, as well, trying to increase the amount of space available so more patients can be seen.

Working with the department and Yellowknife Health and Social Services they came up with this arrangement and the department agreed with that process, brought it forward, we accepted what they brought forward and work is proceeding. Minister Miltenberger has more detail on the work that has been done to date. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Roland. Minister Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I just want to provide a bit more information for the Member for Sahtu. We recognize that this is a system that covers the whole territory and we have to pay attention to the whole territory as best we can.

In the Sahtu we have invested, over the last few years, several millions of dollars trying to set up a Sahtu authority with the administration and office space and office capacity for the services. We have budgeted two doctors, we are putting in a public health unit, we are going to be for the next few years subsequently following, hopefully, setting up rehabilitation teams that are going to be able to travel into the region. We have also been looking down the road for midwifery and those types of things to move out. We are under active discussion with the Member on the use of the Deline facility, so we are trying to be very aware of the need to look at all parts of the Northwest Territories.

Yellowknife has some very pressing issues. A lot of them are based on inefficiency and lack of proper space to be able to provide a service that is important to the people. This particular renovation is going to help do that, along with the other work that we are doing with the downtown clinics and subsequent as well the renovations to Stanton, which are all going to provide a better service for everybody in the end result. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you. Just a brief comment here. I appreciate the Minister's efforts to improve the Sahtu health authority and the plans to upgrade the health system in our region. I know that Yellowknife does need some support and I guess you are looking at the amount of dollars, the millions of dollars spent in the Sahtu and the other regions, such as Yellowknife here, and there is no comparison. The amount of money spent here are millions, compared to the Sahtu. I hope that there is some effort to look at that in the Sahtu.

I understand that there is a budget for two doctors in the Sahtu, but they have not been able to get them because of the housing issue. It's fine to have a budget, but then there is no place for them live. So what are we doing to ensure that some of these things get some attention in laying the foundation for some of these health services in the region?

Mr. Chairman, that is more of a comment. If the Minister wants to respond, it's up to him. Thank you.

Mahsi, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, it is something that we obviously have to wrestle with on an annual basis when we build a budget; about the size of the government as it is, the growth that happens and where we situate our services is in much of our discussion earlier and I am sure that there will be other items as we go forward.

It is something that we have to look at and I think overall when you compare our jurisdiction to many others, we have one of the better systems available. Yes, it does need improvement and we are trying to work with communities, regions and with the federal government to help us continue to improve and make sure that residents in the smallest of our communities get adequate levels of service. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Roland. We will go back now. We are on page 28, total department, Health and Social Services, capital investment expenditures, special warrants, $577,000.