Debates of June 2, 2004 (day 18)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today in my Member’s statement I spoke about the need for the telephone to be an allowable expense under the act. I spoke about the fact that many government services, such as the Department of Health and Social Services’ new Tele-Care line, are not accessible to people without a phone. It’s hard for people to get a job if a potential employer can’t get hold of them in a timely fashion. My question for the Minister is whether his department is considering, under the income support program, including basic telephone as an allowable expense. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 198-15(3): Eligible Income Support Expenses

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there is no intent within the department to review the program right now to include the cost of telephone as one of the basic expenses. The expectation is that the amount that’s in the program is one that allows people to make choices as to what they will spend their money on. I recognize that there are some who feel the program is not adequate, but I have started the process of discussing with the standing committee the adequacy of the program and we have had some initial discussions and are planning to carry that on through the month of June. I am prepared to work with the Standing Committee on Social Programs to discuss the program, make sure that everyone is aware of how it functions, and then see if we can agree on whether there should be any changes made. But I am not going to launch off and make any commitments to any changes at this point. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 198-15(3): Eligible Income Support Expenses

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the Minister for his answer. Could the Minister reply with some further clarity as to whether he would be willing to consider a telephone expense as an allowable expense under the income support program? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 198-15(3): Eligible Income Support Expenses

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I said, I have already begun the process of reviewing the program with the standing committee and listen to the committee and work with them as we work through this. Stipulated expenses like rent, for instance, we pay the actual cost. The overall allowance that comes out, we expect people will make choices as to what they spend the money on. Therefore, at this point, it’s up to clients whether they believe the telephone is an essential expense. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 198-15(3): Eligible Income Support Expenses

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, would the Minister provide any comment in relation to timeline for issues to be discussed like making the telephone an allowable expense under income support, and will he be allowing public input on that type of expense? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 198-15(3): Eligible Income Support Expenses

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No, I am not planning any public process. There have been enough reviews of the income support program over the course of the last nine years and I don’t think we need to do that again. I hear from advocates quite regularly. I have committed that I will work with the standing committee. The Member is on that committee, so he knows we have had an initial briefing and there is another briefing planned for later this month, at which we will see if we can move things along. As is the process here, if any changes are to be made to a program which will impact it fiscally, that has to be worked through the business planning process and the business plans will be presented to committees in September. That is the timetable for any changes to be seen by Members of this House for proposal. That would mean they would be implemented then in the course of the next budget, which is April 1, 2005. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Your final supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 198-15(3): Eligible Income Support Expenses

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If the Minister could comment specifically what is holding up the telephone being considered an allowable expense? Basic telephone service is no longer a luxury of the modern day. I would quantify it as just as important as rent and food. So can the Minister explain that, please? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 198-15(3): Eligible Income Support Expenses

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess there is a question as to which is more important. The program pays right now the full cost of rent. So there is an agreement that is not calculated as part of the amount that you have to justify. The program does pay the full cost, but most other things are considered the client’s choice. The expenses are added up as to what a person has and brings to the table, and then an amount is provided as a top up. So it’s entirely up to people right now to decide whether they choose to spend the money on a phone. It’s essential to point out that there have been arguments that our program is not efficient, we have way above anybody else in terms of benefits. There is nobody else in Canada that comes close to what we provide in benefits in income support. So it’s a very good program. Does it need to have attention paid to it? It probably does. That’s why I am committed to reviewing it with the standing committee. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.