Debates of June 2, 2005 (day 7)

Question.

Question is being called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Committee Report 1-15(4) is received and adopted.

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Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I would like to recognize the member from a Tlicho community, Joe Beaverho. Thank you.

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Item 6, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is my pleasure to have in the House assisting us this week two Pages from Fort Liard, Cheryl Bertrand and Elsie Marcellais. I'd like to thank you very much.

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Yes, we'd like to thank all the Pages for doing an excellent job this week. Item 6, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to recognize the vice-president of the Gwich'in Tribal Council, Ms. Mary Ann Ross. Welcome to the House.

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Madam Speaker, this question is for the Minister of FMBS. Given that the GNWT, FMBS, has implemented payroll changes whereby seasonal staff such as firefighters will have to wait more than a month for their pay, the temporary seasonal workers in the communities wait all year for this summer employment, Madam Speaker, and oftentimes this seasonal employment is the only employment for the whole year. Will the government consider modifying the payroll delay changes implemented by the FMBS? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board Secretariat, Mr. Roland.

Return To Question 78-15(4): Payroll Issues For Seasonal Workers

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I am unaware of the changes that impact the seasonal firefighters as the Member has stated. The payroll changes that we have implemented across the Territories sees a delay or an advance being paid to all employees and then a portion of those being drawn back. I am not aware of the details of how that would specifically affect the firefighters, so I will have to get that information. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Supplementary To Question 78-15(4): Payroll Issues For Seasonal Workers

Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I will be pleased to provide the Minister with that information. Here is a case where we are going to have to look at it, and probably immediately, the procedural changes like the FMBS is really wanting to put in place. But when it applies to the smaller communities and seasonal workers, it just does not make sense and I will forward to the Minister more detail if the Minister is willing to have a good look and maybe make some immediate changes, Madam Speaker.

Thank you for the offer, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 78-15(4): Payroll Issues For Seasonal Workers

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, the Member is talking about the actual pay cheque and the delays. For example, our casual hires would have to wait the two weeks before they get their first cheque. The normal process for GNWT employees, until we made this change, would have been that they have gotten cheques sooner, but it made it very difficult for us to calculate sick time or time away and make those adjustments for overtime and so on, and it further delayed when the season ended. That is the reason why we made those changes. Now I see where the Member is coming from on the delay of that first pay cheque. We are planning to put everybody on the same cycle and that was the intent of the decision we made this past winter. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Supplementary To Question 78-15(4): Payroll Issues For Seasonal Workers

Thank you, Madam Speaker. In this case, it is the community of Trout Lake and they have been waiting all year for their seasonal work and now that they have it, they are not going to be paid for a month. This is a case where a bureaucratic decision just does not work in the smaller communities. I will champion the smaller communities over the bureaucracy any day, Madam Speaker. I would like to know, is the Minister willing to look at this situation and improve the process for payment of the workers in smaller communities? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 78-15(4): Payroll Issues For Seasonal Workers

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I would take this information, I will check into it to see what may be done. Since all of these employees have started working already, it may be a bit difficult, but I will look into it and see what information we have and I will provide that to the Member. Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, in my Member's statement I gave a brief picture of the difficulties of attracting investment and expertise in the Sahtu while keeping the playing field fair for all northern and aboriginal businesses. Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment. I want to ask the Minister how can his department ensure that businesses in the Sahtu are given an equal and fair opportunity to compete for government contracts? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment, Mr. Bell.

Return To Question 79-15(4): Level Playing Field For Businesses In NWT Communities

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I am going to need a little more clarification on the question. Talking about a level playing field, I am unsure exactly what the Member is referring to. I know from his statement, he was, I believe, discussing joint ventures, referring to some joint ventures and I think making the suggestion that not all joint ventures are created equally. We agree with that and are looking for companies who want to do business in the North and leave something behind. We want to make sure that where there are joint ventures that we are looking to support, that there is actually a technology transfer or some transfer of capacity. That is our first goal. Of course, it is a market economy and all we can do is encourage local organizations and regional organizations to ensure and make sure, as much as possible, that there is some tangible benefit left behind as southern companies come in to do business. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you, Minister Bell. Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Supplementary To Question 79-15(4): Level Playing Field For Businesses In NWT Communities

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, some of the business that has been done in the Sahtu…Well there are different interpretations of the joint ventures and they come into the region, do their business, then take the majority of the economics out of the region, not even using the businesses in the region. My question to the Minister is can he work with his Cabinet Members to ensure that northern businesses do have some level of equality or some level playing field in terms of receiving contracts from the government, making sure that some of these outside joint ventures are encouraged to use the businesses in the small communities as much as possible? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Bell.

Further Return To Question 79-15(4): Level Playing Field For Businesses In NWT Communities

Thank you, Madam Speaker. As a government, we follow a very well defined set of procurement policies. When it comes to preferential treatment for companies, negotiated contracts, those types of things, obviously we rely on political support from the MLA in the region who generally, I think, is very aware of which companies are providing meaningful benefit to the region. That is certainly a filter or one test for us, Madam Speaker, to make sure that in fact we are doing business with the right companies. We can't prevent anybody from bidding on work. It is a competitive process and generally the best bid will win.

In cases where we are looking at adjustments or looking at negotiated or sole sourcing, we want to make sure that we are using companies that leave benefits in the North and we do rely on endorsement from the region, from the local communities and the MLA to help us do that. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you, Minister Bell. Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Supplementary To Question 79-15(4): Level Playing Field For Businesses In NWT Communities

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, the Minister is correct in terms of the support from my side at least with the companies. What I am getting at, Madam Speaker, is that some of these joint ventures that come in through the competitive process also bring in a lower cost of doing business in the Sahtu and so it reflects back into the region. They do not use the gas stations, or the wages that they pay are very low. I am asking the Minister if he can somehow encourage contractors, should they get the bids in the Sahtu, to encourage the southern contractors to use as much as possible the northern businesses in our region? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Bell.

Further Return To Question 79-15(4): Level Playing Field For Businesses In NWT Communities

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Without getting into any specifics, it is difficult for me to give the Member a concrete example. I would say generally that when I do meet with companies doing business in regions, oil companies, mining companies, I continue to encourage them to take advantage and make use of local companies and local labour, because obviously grassroots support by these companies is critical and if that support is not there or is waning, I think it generally impacts on the success that companies will have.

Companies that are not used to doing business in the North may not immediately recognize this, although I think it is becoming generally more accepted that you have to do business locally. It is not good enough to simply parachute in, take work and leave with all of the benefits in tow.

We will continue to encourage companies to absolutely leave as much as possible in terms of work and benefits on the ground. I will give the Member that assurance that we will continue to do that. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you, Minister Bell. Final supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Supplementary To Question 79-15(4): Level Playing Field For Businesses In NWT Communities

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, the joint ventures that sometimes happen in the Sahtu are 10 percent joint ventures just up front. The southern companies say we have a connection to the local business or the region, and then there are 51 and 49 percent joint ventures. Those are the real homegrown businesses that have equity in the region and sometimes those companies lose out on those 10 percent joint ventures. Madam Speaker, that’s what I am asking for the government to look at, is the real companies in the Sahtu to make sure those monies that are spent by the people who live and who are going to raise their families, not the 10 percent who fly in and fly out of the region. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Bell.

Further Return To Question 79-15(4): Level Playing Field For Businesses In NWT Communities

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Again, it is our preference as a government to support the companies that are leaving tangible benefits behind. Of course, it is very difficult to wade into the corporate structures of companies to determine exactly what the ownership structure looks like, unless we’re conducting something other than a competitive process and we need to go in and negotiate a contract. Then, as I’ve said, there are a couple of tests and filters; support from the MLA in the region. It’s difficult when development arms of bands are involved in joint ventures that may be less than ideal, because obviously there has been some political support for those entities. Getting in and actually evaluating, rating and looking at the track record of companies and comparing them to each other can be something that’s very difficult. So I’ll give my assurance to the Member that we’ll continue to work with the Member to understand better who is doing what in the region and which businesses we need to be, as a government, hoping to patronize as much as possible. Keeping in mind, of course, we have to respect the rules of procurement that we abide by as a government. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you, Minister Bell. I’d like to recognize the presence of a number of visitors in the visitors’ gallery. These folks are here working, they’re receiving certificates of program completion and occupational certificates. I know your Minister would have wanted to recognize you. We’re in the middle of question period right now and if you are still here at the end of question period, I’m sure we could return to recognition of visitors in the gallery and recognize you individually and by your community, but we’re going to conclude question period right now. In the meantime, I’d like to say welcome to the Legislative Assembly.

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Thank you, Madam Speaker. In my Member’s statement today I spoke of my frustration with the way the government provides information on changes to capital projects to the Members of this Assembly and to its standing committees. I’d like to ask the Minister of Finance today whether he would commit to providing, as part of the background information on the capital acquisition plan, a listing, and that is a complete listing, of all capital projects that have lapsed or have been held over to subsequent years? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The Minister of Finance, Mr. Roland.

Return To Question 80-15(4): Commitment To Provide List Of Capital Projects That Lapsed Or Were Held Over To Subsequent Years

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, as the exercise we went through, one of the ways we report capital carryover is through the supplementary process that’s reported in this House for lapses of projects that just have not got off the ground and have been dropped. We will work on getting that information together. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 80-15(4): Commitment To Provide List Of Capital Projects That Lapsed Or Were Held Over To Subsequent Years

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I’d like to ask the Minister of Finance where in the Financial Administration Manual, and that’s directive 302, does it say that the government can consult with standing committees and Regular Members of this Legislative Assembly through supplementary appropriations? Where does it say that, Madam Speaker? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Minister Roland.

Further Return To Question 80-15(4): Commitment To Provide List Of Capital Projects That Lapsed Or Were Held Over To Subsequent Years

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, the formal process of reporting to this Assembly is through a number of bills. For example, if projects change between one department from funding allocated to another, there’s a list of interdepartmental transfer activities that is tabled in this House. For the year end where we have to carry projects over into the new fiscal year, we have to come back to the House for the approvals to carry those projects over to a new year. Those are the formal processes that we have in place. For programs that change in a year from one capital program to another, that’s when we initiate the letters to committees and Members about the change that has occurred in any pre-approved program that’s been in place. So we follow that process.

As the Member is aware, in the directive 302, those are guidelines we use for consulting with the committees and Members on changes to the projects we have available. So we have a number of ways of consulting with Members. That’s either making presentations directly to them or a letter to each specific Member or to a committee or a discussion we have in an office to inform them of the changes. So there are a number of those ways, but the formal processes we have in place are the ones that we do use and are either tabled in this House or have to come back for approval in this Assembly. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Roland. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 80-15(4): Commitment To Provide List Of Capital Projects That Lapsed Or Were Held Over To Subsequent Years

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The difficulty I have, Mr. Minister, is we questioned the Minister of Health and Social Services to try to get us information. We get the information one night prior to a supplementary appropriation coming before the House for us to vote on for $500,000. What type of consultation is that, Madam Speaker, that this government can come back to the Regular Members without going through the standing committee? We have a job to do on this side of the House. What type of consultation is that to get the information one night and make a decision the next day? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Minister Roland.

Further Return To Question 80-15(4): Commitment To Provide List Of Capital Projects That Lapsed Or Were Held Over To Subsequent Years

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, the information that we use or the changes we use, we do inform Members of the changes that have occurred. In this particular case, the item came back to this House requesting the permission to make the change. So when you look at the process, we followed the letter of the law. We’ve followed the process in place and, in fact, I believe Members were aware that this was occurring prior to the day before, because a Member had been quoted in the paper as being supportive of this initiative. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 80-15(4): Commitment To Provide List Of Capital Projects That Lapsed Or Were Held Over To Subsequent Years