Debates of March 1, 2006 (day 39)

Thank you, Mr. Chair. In this area here where the contamination was found when the swimming pool was being taken down, there are additional remediation costs that will likely occur in the springtime, so the total costs are unknown at this point. This is the initial piece. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. As to the cause or the responsibility for the contamination in the first place, I know that in many community sites around the Northwest Territories, due to activities from years ago and decades ago under different owners or different parties, there are previous liabilities. Are we looking into whether or not there is a potential liability that could be assessed to previous owners or occupancy of this site, Mr. Chair?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We suspect the department will be looking into that area. The source of contamination in this old site was due to fuel oil, I believe. I believe the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs has more detail to that area. Thank you

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. McLeod.

Mr. Chair, I guess to answer the first question about whether this money is enough to clean up the site, no. The Finance Minister has indicated there is more to do. We are not exactly sure the extent of the contamination. The swimming pool was built on a fuel storage site that was owned by the government. We are not sure if it was our government or the federal government. We are looking into that at this point. It may be significant; we don’t know. The winter weather didn’t allow us to explore far enough to see how badly the contamination was, but it is a huge area.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have taken up some allotment on this page here. To be fair to Members, I will turn it over. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Municipal and Community Affairs, operations expenditures, community operations, not previously authorized, $4.792 million.

Agreed.

Regional operations, special warrants, $120,000, regional operations, not previously authorized, $180,000.

Agreed.

Sport, recreation and youth, not previously authorized, $400,000. Next I have Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I would just like a little information on page 9 with the special warrants under regional operations. First, I believe this is the only special warrant in this complement package, and I wish to acknowledge that. As Regular Members, we don’t like special warrants, so I am very pleased to see that. I should say up front, as well, is that I have no concern with us fronting the money because I see it as an issue with the short term, whereas the repairs need to be done to ensure that the community of Whati gets their community hall up and running and we can follow it up with a contractor. I am curious on why this came through the special warrant process. I ask that because I was in Whati when I was leading the northern group of the AOC consultation. That was at the beginning of September. I saw it for myself how bad and extensive the damage was. I am only curious on why this would be through…This problem has been known for a little while. I am just wondering why it has come through the special warrant process instead of the regular approval process like everything else is in the supplementary appropriation. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, this area here, there was a fair bit of back and forth with the Department of Public Works and Services and Municipal and Community Affairs as well as the contractor in the community, as to who would have to cover these costs and what was required. It got to the point where we just had to proceed with the repairs. As the Member stated, when he had an opportunity to visit in the community to see the state of it, it was not a satisfactory state. At some point, injury could be the result. So it was felt, at that point, that we just had to proceed with the work. There is other work continuing now around going back to see if we can get relief of any of the funds that we have had to spend. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you. I should underscore that, although it was significantly close, the special warrant was well within the rules which is 14 days before, of course, this session. I just found it surprising that it is very close to that little period, if it was approved through their administrative Executive Council process through FMB, if it had been delayed a week, the approval, it would have gone through the Legislative Assembly through the normal process without requiring a special warrant. That is not to question the value of the project that is being considered or being taken care of here. That is not challenging that at all. I just find it strange that it has been a problem for some time and there has been a lot of going back and forth process. It was approved just in the timelines it was. It is not a criticism. The rules were followed. So I will underscore that. I just find it surprising; that is all.

The last line in the description says the department will recover the cost of the repairs from the contractor. Maybe if the Minister could provide some detail on that. Is that associated with holdback? Do they admit faults? Did we sue them? Will the cost that we will be receiving back from the contractor cover the cost to repair that floor? Thank you

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, we are attempting to get the recovery of those funds. The holdback that Public Works and Services had on the initial project is not sufficient to cover the amount of work that was required, so there is going to be an attempt made to recover the funds from the contractor that did the work at the time. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Hawkins.

Are we, at present, going to take them to court, or are they willing to cough up the difference between the holdback and the actual amount to repair this? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, there are discussions still going on in this area as to what avenue we would take. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you. I am just following along into a different area as far as specific to the contractor, if they are providing faulty work, and I am not asking for the name. I don’t think it is probably appropriate at this time to air that name, but was the contract organized, administered and run through the territorial government? I know that the Tlicho people have some authority to do their own business on their own land. I am just wondering if this was a contractor that had gone through the territorial process. Will we be putting them on some type of notice if we have some difficulty if they refuse to repair the faulty work that they had done? If we are getting faulty work from them, I guess I sort of question why will we hire them in the future if they are resisting to pay. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, this project was undertaken quite some time ago initially. It was constructed over a number of years. It was a negotiated contract with oversight from Public Works and Services. They received substantial completion in May of 2004 where it was turned over to the community of Whati. It was in January of 2005 that the flooring became a problem and progressively worsened to the point of safety concerns were raised.

In our discussions with the contractor about the work and the need to do the right work, there was some initial activity done to try and remedy it. That did not fix the problem. In the meantime, as things happened with the Tlicho Government coming into effect and taking over the company that was involved, it has further complicated the matter. But we are in discussions again about where we need to go and try to recover these costs. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I apologize if I am taking too much time up on this issue, but I saw the facility. It is a beautiful facility, but there weren’t just problems with the floor. I seem to remember that the exterior had problems, as well. I hope those are being addressed at the same time. I just hate to think that a contractor went in there and we have to keep in mind that a contractor that does faulty work brings the whole industry down, especially if they run away from their responsibility. I think that is an insult to the good contractors that do good work and by us letting them go, or off the hook quite easily, I think we insult the industry because I think there are a lot of good contractors out there that ensure, to the best of their abilities, that quality products are built, followed up on and warranted. The issue I have with some concern is that this contractor may be able to sort of slip through the process or get away. I guess I am concerned because I saw the building. It is a beautiful building. It is a shame the floor looks pathetic. It shouldn’t. It should be a beautiful floor. There are problems with the siding. I have concern that we are going to spend big dollars. Sorry; big dollars were spent and no warranty on that. The poles out front, there were a lot of little things. I just want to ensure that this building will be completed properly as it was originally designed. I want us to take notice and take note of this contractor, whoever they may be, and consider this for the future. If they start continuing bidding on tenders and demand negotiated tenders, it shouldn’t matter who they are. It shouldn’t matter if they are non-aboriginal or an aboriginal contractor. It doesn’t matter. The fact is if they are providing faulty work, we should really take this seriously and say why are we going through this process? Because if they are not willing to pony up, when they did something wrong, and repair it, I feel that they have let us down and they have let the community down in the long run. I can only imagine that this facility is not being used by this community. I don’t know for details, but I think this community is being denied a facility that they deserved and they sort of got…Thank you, Mr. Chair. That is all I have at this time. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Maybe I can just remind members to be very cautious in terms of when you talk about contractors when you are speaking. Mr. Roland, do you have any comments to make?

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, we have our processes in place when it comes to disputes with contractors. I have laid out what the intention is from our government’s side, and our focus in this area was to repair the flooring situation. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Next I have Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have a question on the sport, recreation and youth for $400,000. I just would like to get some information on why we have seen the kind of increase from the projected budget on the Arctic Winter Games budget. Mr. Chair, I obviously support the work and mandate of Arctic Winter Games, so that is not the issue here, but I just want to know if some anomaly or something extraordinary happened that caused such a big increase in the budget. I understand that the regional trials travel, for example, was budgeted for $92,000, but now we are projecting $195,000. So that is a variance of $103,000 which is more than 100 percent of what was budgeted. The territorial travel budget component is not too bad. It went over by $65,000 and that could happen over a $257,000 budget, but the other item that should raise some questions is in regards to Arctic Winter Games travel in general. It was budgeted for $266,000. We are projecting $226,000 more at $492,000 which is not quite 100 percent of what was budgeted, but quite substantial. I am in support of the games, but I just want to know if the Minister could share some information as to what transpired there. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, the area for 2006 Arctic Winter Games trials, what we found, and I have been informed of, was that the regional participation had increased significantly. That is part of the larger portion of the increased cost as well as the high cost of fuel which affects the charters that were used getting athletes to and from the centres where the trials were happening. As well, for example, in the Beaufort-Delta with the closure of the Inuvik high school which has a gymnasium, it would have helped in the delivery of this. It caused some problems where they had to get out to other communities and use other facilities, as well as the Liard ferry situation. When that was closed, it added additional expense in the travel budget area. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Ms. Lee. Thank you. Page 9, Municipal and Community Affairs, operations expenditures.

Agreed.

Community operations, not previously authorized, $4.792 million.

Agreed.

Regional operations, special warrants, $120,000.

Agreed.

Regional operations, not previously authorized, $180,000.

Agreed.

Sport, recreation and youth, not previously authorized, $400,000.

Agreed.

Page 10, Municipal and Community Affairs, operations expenditures, School of Community Government, not previously authorized, $15.090 million. Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have just a short question on this issue of Northern Strategy trust fund money. I am happy to see that a number of communities have taken the step to tap into this funding. I am sure there are other communities to come here. I just would like to know, because I do not have any information about what sort of projects are being funded under this program. I just want to know what is going on in communities with this Northern Strategy money. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Roland.