Debates of March 1, 2006 (day 39)

Agreed.

Thank you. Page 18, Industry, Tourism and Investment, operation expenditures, economic development, not previously authorized, $527,000, total department, $527,000.

Agreed.

Thank you. Page 19, Environment and Natural Resources, operations expenditures, forest management, not previously authorized, $127,000, wildlife management, not previously authorized, $57,000, total department not previously authorized, $184,000.

Agreed.

Thank you, Committee. Page 20, Municipal and Community Affairs, capital investment expenditures, regional operations, not previously authorized, $874,000, total department, $874,000. Committee?

Agreed.

Thank you. Page 21, Health and Social Services, capital investment expenditures, health services programs, not previously authorized, $315,000. I have Mr. Yakeleya.

Mr. Chair, the funding for tenants’ improvement. Is that our own building or is that someone else who owns that building, the Great Slave Medical House?

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Roland, please.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I believe it is a leased building.

Thank you, Minister Roland. Mr. Yakeleya, please.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. A leased building, so that’s not our building, it’s somebody else’s building?

Minister Roland, please.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, it is another property. What we have done in the past as a government when we’ve entered into facilities and leased them, if we need to make changes in the structure or office space, or requirement for space, we would take that on and pay for those changes. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Roland. Mr. Yakeleya, please.

Thank you. So is this a practice by this government to support these types of buildings that need improvements, or office space, or renovations, because I’m having a difficult time right now to know some double standards? So is this common practice that this building gets improved by this government to help out a landlord? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, for the details of this change, maybe we can go to Minister Miltenberger on that. But it is common practice for the government, when it does lease facilities to make changes to those facilities for our own requirements, that we fund those changes. This particular amount that’s allocated and requested is also being covered off by the agreement with the federal government, but for more details on the specific case, Minister Miltenberger could probably provide some more detail.

Thank you, Minister Roland. Minister Miltenberger, please.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Back in the year 2000 there was a fund agreed to at the First Ministers of Health meetings under their primary health care transition fund. About $4.7 million was our share and there were 11 projects that were developed across the North. The program took a long time to unfold. One of the projects that was agreed to was to look at how do we advance our primary health care model, which would allow us to integrate our services at the community level with the nurse practitioners and the doctors and the nurses. Back then the plan was to do some modifications to the Great Slave Medical Clinic to in fact allow that to take place. That is what this is. It’s a one-time, it was a pilot project and it was to do these program developments on a pilot basis. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, again, we’ve certainly seen some improvements needed in our smaller communities and it seems like it’s not getting some of the attention that is needed. I’m trying to follow this process here and some of these buildings that are needed in the communities that need improvements that doesn’t seem to make a good acceptable business case for Cabinet sometimes if they take it or leave it and then come back and say well it’s not their building, they won’t do anything to it or not their responsibility and it’s up to the landlords. So I’m having a hard time in terms of something like this. It may be needed and it may be required and even to pay, even though it’s funded partially by the Government of Canada, for these tenant’s improvements just doesn’t seem to cut it in the small communities in terms of any type of proper improvements or services and always come back with no money. You see something like this, it just doesn’t feel good, even though they’re going ahead with it, but two different levels of health care as far as I’m concerned. However, it’s in the budget and that, so I just don’t see the equalization of treatment of health care in the Northwest Territories. More of a comment. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Roland, please.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the area we’re looking at here and the work that’s required, as Minister Miltenberger stated, comes into the area where 11 projects were looked at for a one-time fund. This was one of them. I understand where the Member comes from about the concern about delivery of health care services and competing projects and getting, I guess making the cut as to whether it proceeds or not. This area here, just to be clear so individuals out there don’t feel like we’re creating a two-tier system, this does not create a different level of service. Anybody needing the requirement for primary care or health care, you know, to the best of our ability are getting it out there in every community. But, yes, there’s still a difference in that level of service when you’re into the smallest communities that we have versus the larger communities where you have. For example, here in Yellowknife the territorial hospital versus a health centre in the smaller communities. So the level of service is different, but an individual going to one…Our goal is to ensure that they get the same level of service and care if indeed the medical system to come to their aid. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Roland. Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you. I think you have to go in the communities to see the kind of centres they have there and the kind of buildings they have to operate out of and you would see it right there. So we don’t have to create that perception in terms of look at Colville Lake, look at their health centre, look at the equipment they have there and the type of needs that are required there. All things like that in the other smaller communities. So this is the reality in our health care system. Again, there’s just different levels of services I guess in larger centres requiring more and more, I don’t know what they require more of, but they seem to get it. The larger centres outside just seem to have a different level. We should be, I guess in some sense, happy that we have health care in our communities no matter what. It just seems to be that the playing field I guess is still different. So I’m just saying this more of a frustration I guess when I see something like this that gives extra dollars to a leased tenant for improvement of a medical centre here in Yellowknife, which may be justified, by all means justify. However, I think other centres outside here don’t have the type of services that they should have. It’s not even on here. So that’s more of, Mr. Chair, my frustration of seeing a budget item like this.

Again, we’re going to come up next year again. You’ll see us in the House screaming for more dollars for our communities such as Colville Lake. You tell them that they have different levels of services. So that’s, Mr. Chair, more or less my frustrations and it's more comments to the Ministers. I’ll continue asking these questions when I see something like this. I mean, it’s not fair. It’s just not fair. So I’ll leave it at that.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess what I could say at this point would provide little comfort to the Member in what we’re doing with the request for this funding to be spent in this area, and he raises a lot of valid points and concerns about that level of service. Many of them, which would use as well when we have to ship a lot of our patients out of the territory because we can’t provide a level of service that is found in the larger centres across Canada. It’s unfortunately a fact of life in a lot of places. In the smaller places you go to, the level of service isn’t the same as in the larger and we’re having to face, as we dealt with earlier, sending some of our children out of the territory because we don’t have facilities here. It is something we wrestle with when we make these types of improvements and request the authority to spend these dollars in these areas and it’s going to be an ongoing issue that governments are going to have to deal with as to what level of service they can provide for our residents. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. I now have Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just a short question. The Minister of Health indicated earlier that this is as a result of a pilot project being funded by the federal government and that there are 11 different projects. Did he mean that there were other projects being funded under this program, and, if that’s the case, where are those programs located? Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Minister, please.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We don’t have that level of detail with me. I’m not sure if the Minister of Health and Social Services has that at his station. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Minister Miltenberger, please.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I don’t have the detail on the other projects. I know that there were 11 and they were across the regions across the North, but I could get that information for committee.

Thank you, Minister. Ms. Lee.

Thank you. If the Minister could give the breakdown of where these projects are and what they were for, to all the Members, I’d appreciate that very much. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Minister Miltenberger.

Yes, Mr. Chairman, I'll make sure we forward the information to the chair of Social Programs for her perusal.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Ms. Lee, anything further?

No, thank you.

Thank you. I now have Mr. Pokiak, please.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just to follow in line with what Mr. Yakeleya is saying, and I guess the first question I have is how long is the lease for this building. The second one is when the department found out it needed improvements to the building, why didn't they approach the landlord and say, look, can you improve the building to our standards that we require? The third question, Mr. Chair, is once the lease expires for this building, will the government have to put the building back to its previous setting? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak. Mr. Roland, please.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I'll have to apologize if I don't get all three responses to his questions. I believe there were three. The first one is the lease is in effect until August 2008, with two further options to extend by one year to 2010.

In regards to the improvements to the facility, once we are concluded with the use of that facility, we would not return it back to its original state. We end up leaving the upgrades that were done.

I have to apologize; I missed the second question.

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Pokiak.

Thanks, Mr. Chair. My second question was when government identified they needed improvements on the building, why didn't you just go to the landlord and say, look, can you add this on for us, at their cost? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak. Minister Roland, please.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, as with all of our properties that we lease, when we originally go out for a lease requesting square footage and the type of environment we're looking for, we would do our initial improvements and upfitting, as we would call them, as departments go in there. Once that is established, it's straightforward and you renew on that basis from year to year. If there are requirements on our behalf for a chance in the use of that facility, then the department responsible would end up paying for those conversion costs or further upgrades for any changes to that agreement. So it is standard practice that with our leasing practices, as we go into a facility and do the original upfitting, as we call them, moving in departments, and any further changes would be the cost of the department. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Anything further, Mr. Pokiak?