Debates of March 10, 2005 (day 53)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Weledeh, that Bill 17, Modernization of Benefits and Obligations Act, be read for the third time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to point out a point of privilege. Yesterday, on March 9, 2005, in this Legislature during Committee of the Whole debate, I believe that inappropriate amendments were made to a bill that affects my ability to do my job to represent my constituents. I was unable to send this bill back to the responsible standing committee for proper public debate to engage our institution of participatory consensus government. This bill has changed significantly. The Minister added five amendments to a bill of 10; very irregular, and made a new reference to the Wildlife Act which is not an amendment but is an addition. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Before I rule on the point of privilege, I will allow Members to speak to the point of privilege. Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe that I have shown in the past to take very seriously any points of privilege that are raised. I do believe that they are very important and it is one of the privileges of being here, to raise those points, and I respect that very much.

I do want to respond for the sake of the debate here, just to respond to the point being raised. Mr. Speaker, I think it is very serious when anyone raises questions about whether we are giving the public the proper input into our legislative process, and those should be raised whenever there are questions asked and they should be properly answered to. I just want to say that in this case I don't think that it's true that the public have not had a chance to look at this bill or the intent of this bill, Mr. Speaker.

This bill was introduced in the House last October. The public hearing process of this was advertised in mass media throughout November. I know that the Social Programs committee held at least three public hearings on it, and the amendments, I know are troublesome for some and I appreciate that there are some points that are changing the nature and the substantive scope of the bill but, in my view, I believe those changes that were made are very much in line with the preamble of the bill which was introduced and read and accepted by the House, and I don't believe those amendments made in Committee of the Whole yesterday changes that.

So I do respect the right of Members to raise a point of privilege. I do want to add my point to this debate, and that is that I don't believe in this case that the assertions being made are true. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I await your decision.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Do any other Members want to speak to the point of privilege? Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, appreciate any Member's contention that there may be a point of process and an interference with the public's access to what we are doing here. In this case, I do not feel that we have breached that trust.

The purpose of the bill, when it was introduced last fall, was quite clear to me, Mr. Speaker, that it was designed to be a survey, if you will, or an inventory of all of our legislation to catch the areas and definitions regarding spouses or references to particular genders that would not be consistent with Canadian law, and we are compelled to follow that. So even though, as the Member quite correctly pointed out, there were some new provisions brought in in a couple of acts, it was very consistent with the spirit and intent, and I think the impact of the bill will, in fact, result in more people having obligations and benefits returned or restored to them no matter what their gender.

So I think the amendments that were brought forward by the Minister were positive and certainly in the spirit of the bill. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. To the point of privilege. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, for the record, I do believe that Mr. Menicoche does have a point of privilege. If he feels that his ability to represent the interests of his constituents has been curtailed or infringed on in any way, and I think that time is not of the essence with respect to these changes. I think there is substantive time. I would also like to suggest that in fact the reason why these amendments were not made at the committee level was because they couldn't make it out of committee on a vote. Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. To the point of privilege. The honourable Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am going to support the honourable Mr. Menicoche, Member for Nahendeh, in terms of his point of privilege. Mr. Speaker, when we come into the House, the integrity of this institution is at stake in terms of the process and the respect that we give each other and the jobs that we do. If there are changes made to a bill, we need to be aware of them, as committee members. If there are some changes to a bill without us as committee members not knowing or the House not going through the process, even though it may be consistent with supporting the bill, if there are some new provisions that are brought in at the last minute, then I really question the integrity of the process that we have been engaged in in the last couple of weeks here. So I also await the ruling of your decision, Mr. Speaker, in terms of the point of privilege. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The honourable Member for North Slave, Mr. Zoe.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I concur with my colleague from Nahendeh and the comments that Mrs. Groenewegen has made also. I believe that the process that’s been outlined by Mr. Yakeleya. I just want to make a couple other points. Although Ms. Lee has indicated that they follow the normal routine and follow a process of putting advertisements out so they can have general public input, I don’t think they’ve gone far enough, particularly on such a sensitive issue as this particular bill is. I think they should have gone a little bit more in consultation with aboriginal and municipal governments. Then that way we could have had more serious input into this particular bill. I think my colleague here has a point of privilege.

Thank you, Mr. Zoe. To the point of privilege. The honourable Minister of Justice, Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. To the point of privilege. No further comments. Thank you, Members. When a point of privilege is raised, the duty of the Speaker is to determine whether a prima facie breach of privilege has occurred and whether the matter has been raised at its earliest opportunity. Having heard the arguments of the Members on this point of privilege, it is my ruling that a prima facie breach of privilege has not occurred in this instance.

I will remind Members that a breach of privilege occurs when the ability of the House to execute its functions has been obstructed or where individual Members have been obstructed in the performance of their individual duties. It is my ruling that neither of these conditions have been met. Many of the Members' arguments relate to the matter of procedure and the rules of this House. While these matters may have been relevant on a point of order raised at the appropriate time, they are not necessarily relevant to a question of privilege.

To the motion. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I request a recorded vote.

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Member for North Slave, that the motion be amended by striking out “that Bill 17 be read for the third time” and substituting “that Bill 17 be not now read a third time, but that it be read a third time this day three months hence.”

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I make this motion today because I do not agree that we are ready to give Bill 17 third reading. This bill has not been through an appropriate public review process. I find it very disturbing that five amendments were made to Bill 17 yesterday during Committee of the Whole debate. To me it is totally inappropriate that these amendments, which change the context of the bill, were made without an opportunity for public input. When do our constituents get to have a say? For example, an amendment was made to the Wildlife Act, Mr. Speaker. That’s a very key act for a lot of people and it’s unbelievable that we short circuited the democratic process by not having a public hearing on something that important. There is a dangerous precedence that is being set by not even allowing the public an opportunity to be informed about a major change to legislation, let alone the opportunity to speak to it. How can we justify this? If we’re going to evade the democratic process this time, what’s next, Mr. Speaker? In my opinion, this bill should be reintroduced in the next session so that people can be given an opportunity to appear before the standing committee and speak to it in it’s final form, including the amendments that were made yesterday. It’s the right thing to do, Mr. Speaker. Reintroduce the bill so our constituents can have a say in the legislation that’s being made here. Mahsi cho.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. To the amendment. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’ll be voting in favour of the amendment. I do think that the way these amendments came forward on the floor of the House in Committee of the Whole is an aberration to how we normally deal with amendments to legislation in our committees. It may only be a convention, it may only be a tradition that we don’t make those kind of significant amendments in Committee of the Whole, but the fact is normally those are carried out in committee and we have diverged from normal process here. For that reason I do agree with the Member that we do need to give constituents a chance for input and further public consultation. I will support the motion. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. To the amendment. The honourable Member for North Slave, Mr. Zoe.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will be supporting the motion brought forward. This bill is a very sensitive issue and, as my colleague has indicated, I think we should go back to our aboriginal and municipal governments, get their input, and from the general public again. It doesn’t hurt to wait three months and get reintroduced…

Hear! Hear!

…in our May sitting. On that same issue, I wonder if the government also would consider having their Members having a free vote on this. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Zoe. To the amendment. The honourable Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I will not be supporting this motion, Mr. Speaker, because as I stated earlier I do not believe the amendments yesterday did change the bill substantially. But more importantly, Mr. Speaker, I just need to make it very clear because the suggestions and assertions being made here are very serious and I think they should be answered to. Mr. Speaker, I find it interesting that even the committee, I have to tell you for the House that the committee agreed that the bill was ready for Committee of the Whole. That’s how it ended up in this committee. It was moved to the committee by the committee. There were no indications there that would suggest anything other than normal democratic process. I should also point out that it’s a very routine procedure that bills are amended in Committee of the Whole all the time. We just did that in supplementary appropriation yesterday. That is what we’re supposed to do. We make amendments to bills all the time as long as it does not change the nature and substance of the bill. I don’t believe the amendments that were made yesterday do that.

Mr. Speaker, I’d like reiterate once again because I think it’s really important that there be no impression put out there that the public did not have a chance to respond to this. Mr. Speaker, this was introduced last October. That was six months ago. It’s not like this bill was introduced two weeks ago and it’s being rammed through the House. It was introduced in October. It was advertised all through November. There were public announcements on the radio in February for all the public hearings we had. I’m compelled to say, as the chair of the committee, that I could appreciate everybody not agreeing on this bill, but I think the objections to the process are verging on something more serious. It really seems to be questioning the conduct of the committee. Mr. Speaker, I would urge the Members to be more generous about how they regard the work of a committee. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. To the amendment. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm going to say two things. The first thing is I'm very supportive of Bill 17…and I stress, wait for the second. I can't see why we would stop or stall, because I really believe in rights and the acceptance of rights. But I can't say that on one hand, without giving my colleagues the extra couple of months that they have asked for. That's all that they have asked for. The problem is what do we do if it prorogues, and that's exactly it. I need to hear how it's brought back on the paper by someone who is speaking in favour of the delay, how we assure that that can be brought back in May. If I can be assured of that, I can wait until May. But I can't go strictly on a leap of faith that it will return in May. So unless I hear that today, I'll be voting against it. So somebody needs to speak to how it will be back on the paper, and I will vote in favour of the amendment.

---Applause

To the amendment. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Braden.

Mr. Speaker, it should be very clear that we are about to prorogue, and approval of this motion would take it off the order paper. It would die, we would have to begin the process all over again, and I do not see at all the benefit of that. So I will be voting against this motion.

I think Ms. Lee captured what we should be looking at here, and the objections are to process, and not in this venue, Mr. Speaker, to the substance of it.

Standing committee chose to allow all of those amendments, those five amendments that the Member for Nahendeh talked about. By the way, I think three of them were essentially typographical errors; they are of little substance. The Standing Committee on Social Programs said there are aspects of this that a broader membership of the Legislative Assembly should be allowed to speak to. We are not going to pre-empt or presume anything on their behalf; we're going to bring that debate into Committee of the Whole which, in effect, made it much more public and much more accessible for all Members and for the public to hear and see. So I think the procedural point that Social Programs committee sort of missed the boat by not adopting these amendments in committee was, in fact, a very positive and accommodating step and we have all benefited by that.

So I really urge Members to consider what value this will bring to this bill. It was made amply clear, in my listening to what was going on, that we can take this proactive step as a Legislative Assembly and change these laws now, or sit back and wait for a court or other jurisdictions to make those changes for us.

Three months...I'm sorry; if we follow this, the bill will have to start all over again. It could be at least another six months, maybe another year before we could see this back on the order paper to allow the kind of full public debate that is being advocated here. I do not see the benefit of it. This is a great exchange, Mr. Speaker, but I can't vote in support of this amendment.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. To the amendment.

Question.

Question is being called. All those in favour of the amendment? All those opposed to the amendment? The amendment is defeated.

---Defeated

To the motion.

Recorded vote.

A recorded vote is being requested. Mr. Clerk. All those in favour, please rise.

Mr. Dent; Mr. McLeod, Deh Cho; Mr. Bell; Mr. Ramsay; Mr. Villeneuve; Ms. Lee; Mr. Braden; Mr. Hawkins; Mr. Miltenberger; Mr. Krutko; Mr. Roland; Mr. Handley.

All those opposed, please rise.

Mrs. Groenewegen; Mr. Pokiak; Mr. Zoe; Mr. Menicoche; Mr. Yakeleya; Mr. McLeod, Inuvik Twin Lakes.

All those abstaining, please rise. To the motion: all those in favour, 12; all those opposed, six; abstaining, zero. The motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Thebacha, that Bill 20, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 2004-2005, be read for the third time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. The motion is on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Question.

Question is being called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Bill 20 has had third reading. Item 20, third reading of bills.

Colleagues, before we go on, I would like to take this opportunity to let you all know what an honour and a pleasure it has been serving this House as your Speaker during this past session. I have learned a lot and will endeavour to put what I have learned as your presiding officer to good use in our next session.

This budget session has been long, but it has been constructive and beneficial to the people we all serve. The debates have been heated at times, but respectful, and for that I thank all of you. It has certainly made my job easier.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank all those whose jobs are never easy, beginning with the Sergeant-at-Arms and the Pages who have attended to our needs over the past five weeks…

---Applause

…including the many late nights. Thank you for your tireless efforts, and good luck in all of your work and studies.

Thank you also to the Clerk and his staff who have been of faithful assistance to me and all Members during the last five weeks.

---Applause

Thank you, as well, to all the government officials and the employees whose daily labours and commitment contribute so much to the people of the Territories and to the work done in this House.

As we near the end of a seemingly never-ending Third Session of the 15th Assembly, I want to remind Members that in every ending there is a beginning. As we leave this Chamber for the next few weeks, we must be mindful that our work continues and there is much yet to be done. I am sure all Members are looking forward to the second Circle of Northern Leaders meeting to be held next month in Inuvik, as an opportunity to build northern partnerships and shared concerns.

On behalf of the youth of our territory, I would also like to note that the sixth annual Youth Parliament will be held here in this Chamber during the week of May 2nd to the 6th. The participation of all Members is encouraged to assist our young parliamentarians with their duties and their quest for knowledge.

To you all I say best wishes, travel safely, keep to the high road and, until we meet again, may the Creator’s blessings be upon you and yours.

Please be seated. Mr. Speaker, Members of the 15th Legislative Assembly, it is both an honour and a privilege to be in your service once again.

I would like to begin by extending my sincere and heartfelt sympathies to the families, loved ones and colleagues of the four young RCMP officers killed in the line of duty in northern Alberta last week. Constable Anthony Gordon, a northerner, originally from Fort Smith; Constable Peter Sheimann; Constable Leo Johnston; Constable Brock Myrol, were more than just courageous and dedicated officers. They were sons, husbands, fathers, friends and respected colleagues.

On behalf of all northerners, I share the grief and the shock of my fellow Canadians and offer my sincere condolences, not only to those close to them, but to all members of the RCMP touched by this tragedy. Today, a national memorial service was held in Edmonton, Alberta, for the fallen officers where the Northwest Territories was represented by Her Honour Commissioner Glenna Hansen. Our thoughts and our prayers are with everyone at this time.

I would also like to take this opportunity to thank members of the RCMP for the selfless and dependable work they do on our behalf. I understand the community of Rae-Edzo recently held an event thanking the RCMP for their contribution to the community. I hope more communities will reflect on the valuable work of their local RCMP and take the opportunity to thank them as well.

A group of individuals who promote learning and discipline to our youth are the Canadian Rangers. Commissioner Hansen recently opened the Junior Rangers Air Rifle Competitions here in Yellowknife and has asked me to thank the junior rangers from all territories for a most exciting competition.

The Canadian Rangers provide a structured and supervised program for young people from the ages of 12 to 18, promoting traditional lifestyles and cultures. The Junior Canadian Rangers Program is the largest youth program in the North with over 1,000 members. On behalf of Commissioner Hansen, I would like to thank them for the excellent work they do across our territory.

Our northern communities are full of many talented and committed residents. Today I would like to recognize some wonderful people who have recently been the recipients of a number of different awards. First the Wise Women Awards. These awards are bestowed upon women who have been nominated by their peers as examples of intelligent and respected contributors to furthering the role of women in northern society. This year’s recipients are Ruth Wright from the Beaufort-Delta; Tanya Cazon from the Deh Cho; Helen Tobie from the North Slave; Alphonsine McNeely from the Sahtu; and Sister Agnes Sutherland, South Slave. All these ladies are strong, positive role models in their communities and throughout the North. I congratulate them for being honoured as this year’s wise women.

Recently some brave and selfless people were recognized with Rescue Commendation Awards from the Life Saving Society. The recipients of these awards put aside their personal safety and go to the rescue and assistance of those in peril. I would like to congratulate the recipients of the Rescue Commendation Awards. They are, in the youth category, Nicole Henkel; Angus Willson; Hanna Willson; Ishai Forget-Manson; and, Devon Allooloo. In the adult category, we have Edward Jumbo; Paul Falvo; Todd Burlingame; and, Christa Domchek. As well, I am very pleased to announce that three northerners have been honoured with Aboriginal Achievement Awards to be presented to them in a televised ceremony in Saskatoon at the end of this month. I am delighted that Andy Carpenter, Sr.; Bertha Allen; and, Sharon Firth have been selected by the Aboriginal Achievement Foundation to receive these prestigious awards.

Andy Carpenter, Sr. has devoted his life to conservation and sustainable use of wildlife and he has held many other positions of leadership. He was involved in the Inuvialuit Final Agreement and is the founding chair of the Inuvialuit Game Council, a position he held for 10 years. Among many other achievements, Mr. Carpenter initiated the International Polar Bear Management Agreement between the Inuvialuit and the Alaskan Inupiat and helped establish the Ivavik National Park, the first Canadian national park legislated by a land claims settlement. Andy Carpenter, Sr. lives in Sachs Harbour.

Bertha Allen is a life-long activist for social change and the advancement of aboriginal and northern women. A strong advocate for education and training, Mrs. Allen helped found the NWT Training Centre in Yellowknife and Inuvik and worked as a life skill facilitator at those centres. Through her leadership as a former president of the Advisory Council on the Status of Women, founding president of the Native Women’s Association of the NWT and former president of the Native Women’s Association of Canada, Mrs. Allen has been a tireless promoter for women. In addition, Mrs. Allen has served on the NWT Constitutional Committee, the NWT Judicial Appointments Committee, the Multicultural Advisory Committee to the RCMP, and was the only woman to sit on the Bourque Commission. Mrs. Allen lives in Inuvik.

The third northern recipient is Sharon Firth. Sharon was born in Aklavik and, along with her twin sister, Shirley, has competed in cross-country skiing in four winter Olympics, three world championships and countless other national skiing competitions. In 1985, she took part in the Great American Ski Chase and took the overall title. A highly regarded role model, Ms. Firth delivers motivational speeches in schools throughout the Northwest Territories. As well, she has been the subject of many documentaries, including CBC’s The Olympians, the Firth Sisters and Northern Gold. Ms. Firth was inducted into the Canadian Ski Museum and Skiing Hall of Fame and 1990. In 2002, she received the Queen’s Golden Jubilee Medal. Sharon Firth lives in Yellowknife.