Debates of March 16, 2004 (day 1)

Supplementary, Mr. Allen.

Supplementary To Question 1-15(3): Bill Of Intent To Seek Provincial Status

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No disrespect to the Premier’s answer, however, I still feel that the people of the Northwest Territories, especially in my riding of Inuvik Twin Lakes, lost confidence in that document and any subsequent documents thereafter. So I am going to again ask the Premier if he is willing to bring forth this process to discuss further with the western and northern Premiers in the conference in Inuvik in July. So I would ask him if he would begin this work, the political work to start generating support for this process. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Premier.

Further Return To Question 1-15(3): Bill Of Intent To Seek Provincial Status

Mr. Speaker, this has certainly been an issue of interest to my colleagues across the country. All of the Premiers have asked me about devolution and where we are at. Mr. Speaker, this is a process that is trilateral, it involves aboriginal governments, our government and the federal government. The framework agreement I referred to is a first step. Second, we hope to have an agreement-in-principle and we commit to working toward that by this summer, and a final agreement by 2005 with implementation in 2006. That is a pretty ambitious schedule. I hope constituents across the North don’t lose confidence in the process, but I really believe we have to take it step by step and I fully intend to do everything we can to bring this to a conclusion during the life of this government. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary, Mr. Allen.

Supplementary To Question 1-15(3): Bill Of Intent To Seek Provincial Status

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think we all recognize the difficulty in trying to persuade the federal government to acknowledge that we are an emerging territory. So I am going to ask the Premier again, failing his undertaking on a trilateral level, if he would call upon the chief electoral office to conduct a referendum on the question of the creation of the Northwest Territories as a province. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Premier.

Further Return To Question 1-15(3): Bill Of Intent To Seek Provincial Status

Mr. Speaker, that is something that will most likely get discussed at some point by our partners, the aboriginal governments, and it may be something that we want to do at some point here, but I would certainly have to talk to the partner governments, the aboriginal governments in particular, before we would do it. I wouldn’t want to try and do it unilaterally or people will feel we are stepping out too far ahead. Thank you.

Your final supplementary, Mr. Allen.

Supplementary To Question 1-15(3): Bill Of Intent To Seek Provincial Status

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I don’t see the relevancy in the discussion with a third party in terms of the constitutional relationship between the federal and territorial governments. I am going to ask the Premier again if he is willing to bring a bill of intent to the Prime Minister’s office through the normal process. Thank you.

Mr. Premier.

Further Return To Question 1-15(3): Bill Of Intent To Seek Provincial Status

Mr. Speaker, I’ve certainly made this issue known to the Prime Minister; that this is an issue that is at the top of the agenda for our government as well as for aboriginal governments. I will continue to do that. I think we also have to keep in mind that all of these processes take time, they are not things that you can do overnight. In fact, the Member made reference to Alberta and Saskatchewan. They got provincehood in 1905 and they didn’t get control over the resources and land until 1930 or shortly after that. So it is a long process. We have been at it a long time, but I believe that we can make a lot of progress by working together rather than trying to move it too fast and having the other partners feel that we are moving ahead of them. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to today ask the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment some questions around a comment that he made in an article that appeared in the Yellowknifer on Wednesday, February 4, 2004. The Minister comments on how the opportunity for all people in the North is at an unprecedented high rate with the demands for qualified, skilled trades people increasing here and throughout Canada. During that first week of February, Mr. Speaker, I had the honour of attending the Apprenticeship and Certification Week Awards ceremony here in the Great Hall of the Legislative Assembly, where the Minister once again spoke of these opportunities. I am wondering today, Mr. Speaker, if I can get a commitment from the Minister that he will address the dire financial reality that the average person has in getting into and staying with the trades program. It's a question that I have for the Minister, and I have some supplementary questions, as well. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 2-15(3): Trades And Apprenticeship Challenges

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Northwest Territories program provides a wage subsidy for employers to take apprenticeships on, so that a significant portion of a first-year apprentice's salary is, in fact, paid by the Government of the Northwest Territories, through the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, in order to facilitate the young people getting into the trades. The government also provides funding for the school training that is required to be taken by all apprentices, so there is support for the books and that sort of training. I think that what we're providing for apprentices meets a fairly good standard, and I would be interested in hearing from the Member exactly where he thinks our program is deficient in comparison to others in Canada.

Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 2-15(3): Trades And Apprenticeship Challenges

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thanks to the Minister for the response. The first thing I'd like to say is that folks who are in the trades program have to leave the North and go to school. Maybe sometimes it's Fort Smith and other times it's Edmonton or Calgary. When they leave the North, they're on their own for the two months while they're away. They don't get paid for the two months while they're away.

Mr. Speaker, I'm wondering why the trades are different. Why can't apprentices in the Northwest Territories access our student financial assistance program to make sure that they have the resources and the financial wherewithal to see the trades through to completion? We're losing a great number of individuals who can't afford it. During the first two or three years of an apprenticeship program, the average apprentice is making $12 to $15 an hour. It's not a great deal of money, and if you have responsibilities at home, a family and what not, it's a tremendous burden.

I'm wondering, Mr. Speaker, will there be a resource available to those in the first years of the trades program to help them financially to get them through this. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 2-15(3): Trades And Apprenticeship Challenges

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, NWT apprentices do qualify for financial assistance for books, for travel if they need to travel to take their training, and for living expenses. So there is funding available to support apprentices in those areas already. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 2-15(3): Trades And Apprenticeship Challenges

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess the final supplementary that I have is can I get a commitment from the Minister that he will look at putting trades on par with other post-secondary pursuits of individuals in the Northwest Territories so that everybody is on an equal footing in terms of access to financial resources? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 2-15(3): Trades And Apprenticeship Challenges

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I suspect that there is overall equity right now, if you take into account the amount of subsidy that is paid to support the apprentices through their work throughout the year. This government contributes a significant amount of money to providing salaries to the apprentices while they're working. One of the advantages you have in the apprenticeship program is that generally you get through that program without thousands and thousands of dollars of student debt, which is unlike post-secondary programs for university students. Right now somebody can come out after four years of university and owe this government $40,000 to $60,000 that they have to pay back over a number of years. For apprentices that's not usually the case, and that is a big difference. I think that has to be factored in as to whether or not there is equity in the current program.

I would certainly be willing to take a look at the program and work with my colleagues on the Standing Committee on Social Programs to ensure that there is, in fact, equity between post-secondary supports and apprenticeship. Thank you.

Final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 2-15(3): Trades And Apprenticeship Challenges

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wasn't going to ask this one additional question, but I'll rise and ask one more question. How many apprenticeship officers does this government have to service the residents of the Northwest Territories? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 2-15(3): Trades And Apprenticeship Challenges

Mr. Speaker, I can't answer that question at this time. I don't know exactly how many staff, but I know that, for instance, in the North Slave region, there is one officer supported by five staff in the career centre, who can also provide services to people in apprenticeship programs. That's typically the way it is done; the support is provided through the career centres in the Northwest Territories. I will have to commit to getting the Member the specific numbers at a later date. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Ontario was the first province in Canada to create and implement legislation that established and maintained a sex offender registry. The act, named Christopher's Law, was proclaimed on April 23, 2001; named after an 11-year-old boy, Christopher Stevens, who was killed by a previously-convicted pedophile. Since there was no sign of a federal strategy to implement such a program, Ontario proactively and independently, to protect their citizens, developed their own registry.

Headlining in the territorial News/North paper, there was a story of a girl who was attacked in Yellowknife by a convicted sex offender. The attacker was on probation for only 11 days before his next assault. Six days later, he was picked up by the RCMP for being drunk in public, and released. Three days later, the offender sexually assaulted someone else. He only was later identified to police by someone who knew him.

Mr. Speaker, this leads me to my question for the Honourable Minister of Justice, Charles Dent. Does the Minister agree that a sex offender registry could have helped and played a role in this particular case to aid the RCMP to flag this person as a previous sex offender, to help solve sex crimes in Yellowknife and all of the communities in the NWT?

Minister of Justice, Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 3-15(3): Registry Of Sex Offenders

Mr. Speaker, that's a hypothetical question that I'm having trouble answering. I'm not sure if it would have helped. It's clearly a regrettable situation that happened, but I’m not sure whether or not a sex offender registry in the Northwest Territories would have helped to identify this person. In this situation, the question as to whether or not to identify this person would have been made, I think, by the parole system as to whether or not he was qualified to be released. The situation was that under the terms and conditions of his release order, there was no specific order about how he should be supervised. The parole staff were, in fact, going above and beyond what had been ordered to supervise the person, but there wasn't really anything that had been set out by the parole board or the courts in terms of what should have been done to supervise him. So I'm not sure how that necessarily would have worked. I can certainly take a look at what the options are for setting up such a registry. I'm not certain how the NWT would be able to operate such a service, but I would be prepared to look into it. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 3-15(3): Registry Of Sex Offenders

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you to the Minister for answering that question. Then in this case, Mr. Speaker, I would like to further draw attention that on September 6, 2001, the Ontario Conservative Government offered their $2 million software at no cost to any other government in Canada that wished to use it. Noting that this software is free from Ontario, would the Minister be willing to investigate the potential of accessing this free software database program for the Northwest Territories?

Minister of Justice, Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 3-15(3): Registry Of Sex Offenders

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would certainly take a look at it.

Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 3-15(3): Registry Of Sex Offenders

Thank you again, Mr. Speaker, and thank you, Mr. Minister, for offering that. Mr. Minister, would you also be further willing to supply information to all Members of the Legislative Assembly, noting reoffender rates of sex crimes for the last 10 years in the NWT, and if this could be linked to offence locations in correlation to their home location, and further out-of-province offenders who commit crimes in the Northwest Territories, and would you bring that forward to all Members of the Legislative Assembly?

The question is sort of bordering on another question. It sounds like you're beyond the original question that you raised, but I will ask the Minister if he would like to respond. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 3-15(3): Registry Of Sex Offenders

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'm not sure that I really understand what the Member is looking for and maybe I could ask him to restate it, if that would be acceptable.

Final supplementary.

Supplementary To Question 3-15(3): Registry Of Sex Offenders

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just a point, due to shortness, I tried to summarize my preamble into my next question. Essentially, I'm asking if the Minister would supply us with information, a database that we could work with to see offences committed in the Northwest Territories, so we could recognize the potential usefulness of a database that would note sex offenders. Therefore, we would note reoccurrence of sex offenders in the Northwest Territories, as well as potential offenders who have offended in the Northwest Territories who are not Northwest Territories citizens. Therefore, I'm looking for 10 years of data of offenders who reoffend. Thank you.

Minister of Justice.

Further Return To Question 3-15(3): Registry Of Sex Offenders

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I don't know how you identify potential offenders in a document. I would certainly be prepared to examine what information is available on charges that have been laid and on convictions that have been laid, and provide that sort of numerical data. But in terms of privacy concerns, until somebody is convicted I can't see how we can provide much information.

Again, I am prepared to work with Members here to provide them what we can, but there will be some limitations on what is publicly available.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions are following up on the Member's statement that I made, and they also relate to the questions that have been asked by Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Speaker, as I'm listening to the Minister, I'm going to say I'm very surprised by the apparent lack of consideration that the Minister has given to this issue. I would think that, as Minister of Justice and as the Solicitor General in charge of crime prevention or safety, he would have given more thought to how this could have happened and what we could do to prevent that from happening.

Mr. Speaker, that predatory youth sex offender, I'm sure, is an exception rather than the rule, but this young man is a very dangerous guy. He's had a long record of sexual offences and he's had reports from probation officers that said clearly that he was likely to offend and that he is calculating and predatory. So I would like to know what the Minister has done in terms of learning about this case, and has he given any thought as to what he could do within his power to make sure that this doesn't happen again. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister of Justice.

Return To Question 4-15(3): Rising Crime Rate And Public Protection

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the issue of the two young people is a very incredible situation, and it's certainly horrible for the young people and their families. I am terribly sympathetic to that, but I have an issue here where there's a person who has been charged with an offence. It's an alleged offence and for the Minister of Justice to be talking about a case while it's before the courts is completely wrong.

So I can speak in general about the issue of what we're trying to do about crime in the Northwest Territories. I have met with the chief superintendent of the RCMP and discussed with him the issues that we face with crime in the Northwest Territories. The Member raised some of the issues about the increase in the amount of crime. It's not just in Yellowknife; it's all across the Northwest Territories. We have the second-highest crime rate in Canada. It is an issue of concern to me.

One of the ways we're hoping to address that is to respond to the RCMP's business plan which called for an increase in the number of officers, and hopefully we will be able to see through that some way to address it. Not only that, but the department has funded one RCMP position to work in the city of Yellowknife with agencies like the Community Wellness Coalition to help deal with issues of public safety. There are a number of different programs that are active in the community. The Citizens on Patrol program is going to be in operation fairly soon; there are a number of other ones.

Members can be assured that I am very concerned about the crime rates in the Northwest Territories. I can't speak specifically about any one case that's currently before the courts though. I will do my best to make sure that we can address the issue of the rising crime rate.

Just to remind Members, as we all know, we are not allowed to touch on issues which are before the courts, and also not to name names in the House. So just to caution the Members that if you're talking about particular programs and services privy to the department I have no problem with that, but just to caution you that you're not allowed to raise issues which are before the courts. Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 4-15(3): Rising Crime Rate And Public Protection

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I don't know if we're talking about the same case, because as far as I know this case has been tried and this young man has been charged and sent to jail for seven years, and this is his third time before the court and it has been done and dealt with.

I do believe that we have to show more than regret in knowing that our young girls are being sexually assaulted at knifepoint near a school and near a home. This is in our backyard. I have a very specific question to the Minister. Why is it that we don't have any communication plan? Why is it the RCMP cannot let the community know that we have a dangerous sexual offender on the loose? In extreme cases, why can't we do that? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.