Debates of March 17, 2004 (day 2)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I certainly do look forward to the formation and appointment of such a committee. I would also like to see though -- and I would ask the Premier if he would concur -- that the terms of reference for the mandate of this committee needs to not be restrictive in terms of where they might go in terms of identifying opportunities for this government to assist northerners regardless of where they live, and what other kinds of corporations they have in their communities to access support and help. That the terms of reference would not be restrictive and let this be decided by the committee. Thank you.

Mr. Premier, Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 22-15(3): Maximizing Benefits Of Pipeline Development

Mr. Speaker, I think the only limitation we would have on the terms of reference for the proposed committee would be the mandate of this government. If it's within our mandate, then we deal with it. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions are for the Premier and they're to do with my line of questioning that I had raised previously. I would like to ask the Premier what direction he's given to his Cabinet Ministers when it comes to dealing with the business incentive policy. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Premier.

Return To Question 23-15(3): Directions To Cabinet On The Business Incentive Policy

Mr. Speaker, the direction given to Cabinet Ministers is what is in the current policies, that we follow the policies. Where there are exceptions made, then those have to come to Cabinet for Cabinet approval. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Delorey.

Supplementary To Question 23-15(3): Directions To Cabinet On The Business Incentive Policy

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, from that answer am I to take that Cabinet is going to have a look at every contract that's going out from departments? If a department comes to Cabinet with a contract to say we want to waive the BIP on this, they're just going to be picking and choosing what projects they're going to apply the BIP to and what they aren't. Is that the direction we're going now? Thank you.

Mr. Premier.

Further Return To Question 23-15(3): Directions To Cabinet On The Business Incentive Policy

Mr. Speaker, we have policies on a number of areas that we follow. If a Minister wants to make an exception to a policy, then he would have to bring that to Cabinet for approval for the exception. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Delorey.

Supplementary To Question 23-15(3): Directions To Cabinet On The Business Incentive Policy

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it gets pretty frustrating when on one side I have a constituent who loses a contract because of a technicality. They say it's a government contract, we have to stick to the letter of the law, we can't make any changes and he loses a contract. Then I hear that on a business incentive policy contract, as a matter of going to Cabinet we can make an exception and we'll waive the BIP on it. I think we have to make a decision in this government of whether we're going to have a business policy or not. This is a government policy, and here we have the government making changes to whether they're going to apply it or not. I'd like to hear from the Premier are we going to keep the business incentive policy and apply it across government the way it should be, or are we going to do away with it, or are we going to pick and choose? What are we going to do? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Mr. Premier.

Further Return To Question 23-15(3): Directions To Cabinet On The Business Incentive Policy

Mr. Speaker, we have policies, we follow the policies, but we don't follow every policy in every possible situation. There are times when it is necessary to make exceptions. If a Minister wants to make an exception to a policy, then that has to be brought to the government. In the case that the Member for Hay River North is referring to, it was a situation where we have been under pressure to provide affordable housing in the communities. In the previous government this was discussed; it was discussed at great length. There were Members on the other side and this side who said we could get housing a lot cheaper than what we're doing it for now. We don't need $300,000 homes for people who can't afford to buy them. How do we get lower cost housing? The previous government took a look at this situation and said if we just went to the market, we know you can buy a modular home for $60,000 or less in the South or wherever, maybe you can buy it in the North for even less than that. So let's look at it with some flexibility. We need to be open on this because the important thing is to get affordable housing into those communities.

This government took that same issue and looked at it and reconfirmed that, yes, maybe it is worth taking a look at. We did make a decision to make an exception in that case. Mr. Speaker, we can't be just bound so much to our policies that we just follow them blindly wherever they take us. There are times when we need to have a look at other ways of doing things that are affordable. In this case, we'll see whether or not this is going to work. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Time for question period has expired, but I will allow Mr. Delorey his final supplementary.

Supplementary To Question 23-15(3): Directions To Cabinet On The Business Incentive Policy

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I thank the Premier for those answers, but at the same time we have a policy that government follows, and that policy was put in place to benefit northern businesses, to encourage northern business to build capacity and be able to survive in the North. I don't believe that if Cabinet is going to take a view of this now that we're going to be picking and choosing on what projects we can apply the BIP on. For two years, we've been asking what is the cost to government and how much are we saving by doing this. We have not been able to see these figures yet. We think it's saving us money, but I haven't seen any figures. Could the Premier supply me some figures that show that we have saved money by waiving the BIP on any project? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Premier.

Further Return To Question 23-15(3): Directions To Cabinet On The Business Incentive Policy

Mr. Speaker, no, I can't show the cost of BIP or the amount of money that was saved by not using BIP in past situations. It's very difficult to pin those numbers down. The issue that we face though as a government and in this particular one that Mr. Delorey is referring to, is the need to have affordable housing. We need low-cost housing that people can afford to buy or afford to rent in the communities. That's our primary concern. How do we get there? One way of getting there is to allow people to obtain housing from wherever they can get it. That achieves our objective on housing. It may not achieve our objective on economic activity and economic support to business in the North, but we need to prioritize what the objective is. In this case, it was affordable housing. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My written question is with regard to the application of the territorial BIP policy and the exceptions that are made through their discretion.

Mr. Speaker, would the Premier, the Honourable Mr. Joe Handley, table in the House the Cabinet policy that clearly demonstrates to all Members and the public how Cabinet consistently decides if a project warrants the waiving of the BIP? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is the first opportunity I've had to reply to the opening address and I think it's important I do it at this point in the early term of our session here.

Mr. Speaker, it is not often that a small riding such as my electoral district of Inuvik Twin Lakes sets a new standard by having a turnout of electors that exceeds 153 percent during a general election. In my review of recent history, this seems to be the first of its kind in the history of Canada.

My Speaker, my riding of Inuvik Twin Lakes did not only come out in support of its four candidates, the electoral district also provided the MLA with the draft mandate that supports an agenda for change, a vision they want me to convey in this 15th Assembly. I guess there sets an example; in the past, I asked a more seasoned veteran of this Assembly two questions and he took them both as notice. I'm sure that if he understood the history of our territory, he would have an immediate reply for me. So it tells me that there needs to be a political transformation. Too often we have heard that our political system requires modernization, universality across the NWT so that we function in a…(inaudible)…I'm sure that that indoctrination remains today in the minds of many as we try to progress forward, as we have done in the Mackenzie Delta in the history of our short period extending back to the late 1800s.

With the current developments occurring across the Northwest Territories, Mr. Speaker, we have little ability other than try to react to progressive business and economic change, and that has hurt our fiscal capability of trying to deal with it. When we tried to talk about trying to develop capacity building, I think we should really look at ourselves as a territorial legislature and see if we can meet some of those objectives.

As has been expressed to me, I express to you, my colleagues in this Assembly, that we need to make ambitious changes to the way our government system is designed and intended to work. It's unfortunate that we have to continue to have examples where large businesses get benefits, yet we spent hundreds of thousands of dollars chasing a poor, marginalized person in this territory to try to recover either student financial assistance or income support or other payments that are outstanding and owed as a small debt to this government. Then we continue to see economic business and corporate development in the fields of diamond mining and oil and gas exploration across the Northwest Territories. When the immense natural resources of our wonderful land are tapped, we will not only contribute to our own prosperity but to the prosperity to the rest of Canada.

Mr. Speaker, it speaks well for the future of political and social change which has lagged behind in the pace of this business and economic process. Thus it has come upon myself and many Members of this Assembly, as duly elected Members, to embrace the challenge of modernization.

Mr. Speaker, far too often we have gotten into a discussion about our relationship with the federal government with minimal positive results. I think that's why you heard myself as a Member in the last two days talk about constitutional reform for the Northwest Territories. My constituency has asked me to mandate the Premier to build support with his western Premier colleagues and northern colleagues, prior to the scheduled meeting in Inuvik between July 12th and 14th, to bring forth some objectives that give the NWT some of the same powers as any Canadian province, rather than remaining under the federal jurisdiction in many areas.

Mr. Speaker, too often we hear that many of our processes that were changed come under the authority of the Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs, and that any recommendations we make are only accepted if they're liked by that department. I believe the next level is to take ownership of many processes afforded to other jurisdictions, and the only way to do this is to have a rightful seat at the Confederation table, so I would ask that the Premier follow up on this suggestion. We must have the western Premiers support our vision in promoting self-government by aboriginal groups, regions and municipalities, by pressuring the federal government to move rapidly in support of our new political institutions.

Mr. Speaker, the coming years will be a time for far-ranging experimentation in governance within our North. Our new governments will be laboratories for democracy, but they must also have the powers to rise to that challenge. That means adequate funding including resource revenues in the context of devolution where programs and responsibilities are transferred, and the transfer of financial authority must accompany them.

Mr. Speaker, we must ensure that the Premier acknowledges the position expressed in this Assembly by my constituency and, therefore, work with his colleagues in advancing this modern approach with the federal government.

Mr. Speaker, our natural resources basis is for increasing contributions to the nation’s economy, but we must have a fair share of that wealth as well. My constituents have stated emphatically that we need a greater share of resource revenues that will allow us to make investments in our future. We must invest in our small companies so that we can train our young people. In my talks with many people across the North, there is a huge gap in their skill levels and unfortunately we do not have training programs in place that they can tap into to further their skills, plus we are bottlenecked at the labour entry levels. These young people will eventually play a part in developing our infrastructure and the infrastructure reporting and growing economic role. Without this type of investment that is a concern that we will continue to report highly skilled labour, therefore maximizing the unemployment strategy is virtually ineffective.

My constituency agrees in principle that this government must move faster in negotiating a fair division of resource revenues so we can invest much of our share in a resource royalty fund, a system that has been successfully used in Alberta.

Mr. Speaker, in review of our budgets, we must bring our spending under control as we negotiate a realistic funding formula with the federal government. Too many federal programs are based on per capita funding, which neglects the higher costs in the North. Mr. Speaker, we must ask this government to develop a workable funding arrangement, that we have funding reflecting our higher costs and they will top up funding on a per capita basis. Now is the time to act. The current formula funding ends in March of this year, so the successor must be more equitable. With more generous funding, this does not relieve us of our obligation to get our Assembly in order. As we have heard in the past three years, all of our expenditures have increased at a rate of 27 percent. Mr. Speaker, this is unsustainable. Spending restraints must become the norm in the GNWT operations, and I am pleased to hear that the Finance Minister will introduce some form of legislation in the near future to address that territorial-wide concern.

My constituency of Inuvik Twin Lakes is also requesting the Premier and his Cabinet to complete a comprehensive program review using zero-based budgeting to identify those programs that are already cost effective, those that require reform, those that have failed and should be discontinued. Mr. Speaker, we too often see GNWT programs duplicate those of federal and NGO programs, for example. We must amalgamate and consolidate programs in the interest of greater efficiency and lower costs.

In budgeting for the future, my constituency clearly advocates electronic budget reform. This will allow for businesses, community groups and others on the receiving end of the budget process to forward their ideas on what works and what doesn’t work. We see this as a fascinating move which will allow the creation of a more open budgeting process. We must proceed to a multi-year budgeting system in order to provide a more stable, predictable fiscal framework for the subsequent two or three years. Annual financial updates will ensure the flexibility to adjust to changes in the economic climate.

Mr. Speaker, while Cabinet in the sense that they are accountable, unfortunately the system is not and that is what we are trying to address today. We want to see far-reaching reform under the Financial Administration Act. This will ensure greater financial transparency with more budgetary information available both in print and online.

If we are to provide services that truly serve, then we must provide high quality service at an affordable cost, which would require government to work in partnership with the private sector. Again, emphasis will be in the area of education and life skill development. I spoke to many constituents across the North and they said academic training is not enough, we need life skill training as well so that they can adjust to the demands of industry and the high standards that are set through unionized jobs, unionized training and unionized standards. We see examples of this in the Mackenzie Delta-Beaufort area between aboriginal groups and industry. We see industry can develop, whereas government can’t coordinate, that community and regional educational facilities can deliver apprenticeship and scholarships for high paying jobs that economic development brings. These are the jobs that will build capacity in our communities and help our people pursue rewarding careers. We can support the retraining of older workers as an example through tax exempt individual training accounts that will promote lifelong learning.

Mr. Speaker, people have told me that they find our system of access and social benefits confusing and ineffective. In their observation it seems that the government gives money with one hand and takes away with the other. I have heard other Members of this Assembly raise that key question to the appropriate Minister. This fails to target those who need help the most.

Through my discussions with the experts, the proposal to vary tax, which the Minister asked me about, is an idea thought out in the U.K. In a social benefits program, they target those who need this form of help. I will ask, on behalf of my constituents, that the Finance Minister of this government liaise with the federal government to develop the negative income tax as developed by the renowned economist Milton Friedman to provide aide for those in long-term need rather than the existing tax system.

Mr. Speaker, we must commit to invest in our renewable resource sector as well. I raise this quite regularly. Our world is deemed to be so fragile and in our recent history we have seen what effects diseases such as SARS or BSE has on our economies. A comprehensive review of our renewable resource sector shows that the departments put too much emphasis on enforcement and not enough into community resource development. We must ask that the department reprofile this mandate to accommodate systemic change so that we can put people back onto the land and become resourceful again.

This common knowledge in my electoral district of Inuvik differs from the government's motive to move towards a one-rate zone that theoretically introduces the levelized rate zone of power. Mr. Speaker, although well intended, I’ve never believed we can make a parallel between the high rates in Colville Lake or say in this valley as large as Fort Simpson, simply because there are far fewer customers in Colville Lake than there are in Fort Simpson. The intent of introducing levelized rates should be based on setting a cushion for those hit hard by crushing power bills, by retaining the economic incentive to shift to more sustainable, environmentally-friendly power sources. Therefore, I still remain committed to support the idea of a three-tier power rate system to equalize rates for all communities, which use either gas, diesel or hydro power sources.

Mr. Speaker, through my many years in political life, I have heard that banking services in Northwest Territories communities are either poor or nonexistent. The subject is still a matter of debate when one sits at various annual general meetings of aboriginal organizations. Our government must begin to develop an NWT community bank program where each community’s capital resources could be brought together and mobilized to build businesses and futures. Testability is the monumental word. We should follow the model of the Alberta Treasury Branch, which brought banking services to rural Alberta when the existing banks would not. This helped local economies grow in the process.

Mr. Speaker, what I seek on behalf of the constituents of Inuvik Twin Lakes and for the people who support me across the NWT, the government with a vision of our own possibilities. Whether you are an aboriginal who is ancestral to the North, or a southerner who sees its immensity as a canvass for your own ambitions, I ask you to share this vision.

In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, I have been guided by a small but very ambitious riding that articulated a vision of their own. I take pride in delivering this key message on their behalf today. So I call upon my colleagues in this Assembly to endorse the challenges provided herein. Mr. Speaker, it is now time to meet the challenge of not only political transformation, but to compel our political organizations to work with us in modernizing and to change the way we are governed. Thus, I have raised the questions in the last two days and also in my Member’s statement. This will ultimately make our territory wealthy and self-reliant.

In final conclusion, Mr. Speaker, I find that many instruments presented to this House should be taken and we should move forward on them. I thank you for your indulgence in listening to my reply to the opening address. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I give notice that on Friday, March 19, 2004, I will move that Bill 2, An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act, be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I give notice that on Friday, March 19, 2004, I will move that Bill 3, An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act, No. 2, be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 17, notices of motion for first reading of bills. Item 18, motions. Item 19, first reading of bills. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to proceed with first reading of Bill 1, Appropriation Act, 2004-2005. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Weledeh, that Bill 1, Appropriation Act, 2004-2005, be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The motion is in order. To the motion.

Question.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move, seconded by the honourable Member for the Deh Cho, that Bill 1, Appropriation Act, 2004-2005, be read for the second time.

Mr. Speaker, this bill authorizes the Government of the Northwest Territories to make operations expenditures and capital investment expenditures for the 2004-05 fiscal year. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The motion is in order. To the principle of the bill.

Question.

Question is being called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

What is the wish of the committee? We have Bill 1 before us today. Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I move that we report progress. Thank you.

The motion is in order. It is not debatable. All those in favour of the motion to report progress? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Thank you. I will now rise and report progress.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Bill 1, Appropriation Act, 2004-2005, and would like to report progress and, Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of Committee of the Whole be concurred with. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The motion is in order. Do we have a seconder for the motion? Ms. Lee. To the motion.

Question.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Orders of the day for Thursday, March 18th:

Prayer

Ministers' Statements

Members' Statements

Reports of Standing and Special Committees

Returns to Oral Questions

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Oral Questions

Written Questions

Returns to Written Questions

Replies to Opening Address

Replies to Budget Address

Petitions

Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

Tabling of Documents

Notices of Motion

Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills

Motions

- Motion 1-15(3), Appointment of Deputy

Chairpersons of Committee of the Whole

- Motion 2-15(3), Setting of Sitting Hours by Speaker

First Reading of Bills

Second Reading of Bills

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

- Bill 1, Appropriation Act, 2004-2005

Report of Committee of the Whole

Third Reading of Bills

Orders of the Day