Debates of March 18, 2004 (day 3)

Final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 32-15(3): Non-Insured Health Benefits – Growing Deficit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, on behalf of our constituents, who are the beneficiaries of this particular programming, I would like to have the Minister’s assurance that the level of service is not going to be diminished or affected by these shortfalls and by the lack of response from the federal government. I’d like to know from the Minister, as well, does he see any other scenario? We’ve heard about the possibility of these services being delivered, the money flowing through, for example, the aboriginal governments as opposed to this government. Would he see that as any solution to the problem or would that, in fact, complicate the issue by having a dual health care system and, in fact, drive our costs up? Thank you.

Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 32-15(3): Non-Insured Health Benefits – Growing Deficit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as my colleague knows, having been in the 13th and 14th assemblies, especially with division, when you make two out of one you never do it for the same costs. The more administration and the more different program areas or delivery mechanisms we create, the greater the costs that take away from the ability to deliver the program. The issue for us, the fundamental issue is that we are delivering programs on behalf of the federal government that are under funded that they refuse to acknowledge. We had some small relief with the non-insured health benefits, but that is the big issue. I want to assure the Member and her constituents, all our constituents, that there’s no intention of this government to lessen the services we currently provide to our people, our citizens. But we do have a serious disagreement with the federal government and it’s one that’s very high on our agenda as we try to bring some relief to this growing debt just on the health side. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wonder if I could just continue asking questions to the Minister of Health and Social Services on the same topic that the honourable Member for Hay River South has been pursuing. This is something that’s been curious to me, as well. I don’t know the long and whole background of this issue, but I do know that we have upwards of $30 million in disbursements or reimbursements from the federal government outstanding that has incurred as a result of this government providing services to aboriginal residents in our territory that they are entitled to. We’re falling behind. Thirty million dollars is almost half of our deficit. I’m just wondering, why is it that there has been no progress made in dealing with this outstanding amount with the federal government? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Return To Question 33-15(3): Federal Government Honouring Commitments To The Non-Insured Health Benefits Program

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there are a number of issues that constantly bedevil this process. The federal government challenges a lot of the expenditures. We, as a territory, have some programs and services that are higher or greater than the federal government wants to pay for. They refuse and disallow those invoices. The program was only funded at 95 percent, so there’s a five percent deficit that we deal with yearly because there’s a cap set on what they’re going to pay. There’s a whole host of reasons and, as we know from many of our other negotiations with the federal government, when they want to, the wheels of federal bureaucracy grind very slowly and fine and progress is often glacial in resolving issues. That’s one of the situations we’re also faced with. Thank you.

Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 33-15(3): Federal Government Honouring Commitments To The Non-Insured Health Benefits Program

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wonder if the Minister could advise as to whether or not this Cabinet, this government or any previous government has ever considered launching a legal action against the federal government to put more added pressure and to express our seriousness about the impossible situation and the urgency to resolve this claim. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 33-15(3): Federal Government Honouring Commitments To The Non-Insured Health Benefits Program

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there was a court case initiated in the past that got the federal government to the table and had some basic changes made. Since that time things have once again accumulated and we have, for example with the non-insured health benefits, the lack of recognition on the federal government’s part in terms of things like dental days, obsolete rates that they refuse to modernize, reflection of cost-of-living increases, population growth. There’s a whole number of fundamental issues that we constantly argue and debate with the federal government about and they’re very slow to respond or acknowledge, even though we’ve had many audits and evaluations in terms of the costs, and are they legitimate. Thank you.

Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 33-15(3): Federal Government Honouring Commitments To The Non-Insured Health Benefits Program

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to know more about what result came about the last time the GNWT took the federal government to court on this issue. The Minister mentioned that they did come to the table. Can the Minister advise as to exactly what they came to the table with? Was this government able to get any money out of that, any concessions on the rules, anything like that? Thank you.

Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 33-15(3): Federal Government Honouring Commitments To The Non-Insured Health Benefits Program

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we as a government did not get everything we asked for. There was an out-of-court settlement. We signed an agreement that resulted in the GNWT getting 95 percent of the expenditures for insured medical services for Inuit and Indian residents up to agreed upon maximum. So we have an agreement, there was an out-of-court settlement, but it didn’t meet all our needs and the gap has once again grown. Thank you.

Final supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 33-15(3): Federal Government Honouring Commitments To The Non-Insured Health Benefits Program

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I’d like to ask the Minister whether or not, given the seriousness of this issue on our financial situation and the importance of this issue in our ability to deliver health care programs to our residents in the future, what efforts has the Minister, if any, made to bring this to the attention of our partners and all the aboriginal government leaders? Would this not be something that he should consider bringing into a territorial agenda so that there is as aggressive an action on this issue as there is currently being mobilized for devolution and the pipeline and everything else? Because I do believe this is as important as all the other issues. What efforts has he made to bring this to that level of attention? Thank you.

Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 33-15(3): Federal Government Honouring Commitments To The Non-Insured Health Benefits Program

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Member is correct. This is an issue that has to be moved to as many tables as possible. That is, in fact, what we are in the process of doing. As I indicated and the Premier has indicated in this House, health issues like this one are on our agenda. The role of the federal government, their lack of response, the fact that they only fund 16 percent down from I think it’s 18, way down from the 25 recommended by Romanow. We’ve talked about this with our territorial colleagues. We’ve met with the former Minister of Health collectively. The new Minister of Health has agreed to meet with us again on this issue. We have officials, as well, pushing at different tables on non-insured health benefits and their relationship with DIAND. The Premier, as well, has raised the issue at his meetings with the Prime Minister. We’re also pushing the federal government, as I’ve indicated earlier, to in fact consolidate their health programs so that they can be rationalized. We can come up with a better, more efficient and effective way to deliver programs and that they get funded in a way where there’s not this bureaucratic fragmentation between federal departments which are truly like two solitudes in the same government. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I hope I find a Minister that doesn’t take my question as notice. I certainly want to raise that point with the Speaker. Today, Mr. Speaker, in the context of my Member’s statement and also the replies to the opening address, I want to ask the Minister of RWED if he’s willing to work with his department to change the philosophy from one of enforcement to one that supports resource development in the smaller communities across the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Just a point in regard to how the questions are answered. The Minister has the responsibility to either answer the question, take the question as notice, or not answer the question. Those are the three processes. If they take your question as notice, that’s their prerogative. I have some power, but I don’t have the power over that.

---Laughter

Minister of RWED.

Return To Question 34-15(3): Supporting Resource Development In Small Communities

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate your procedural advice. I think I’ll heed some political advice and answer the man’s question here today…

---Laughter

---Applause

…to make sure that we keep things on the right track. I think it’s a very interesting question and the Member is mentioning our philosophy of enforcement as it relates to the protection of the environment and the protection of wildlife. Of course, we have obligations in that regard that flow from land claims. It’s very important to realize and to work with communities to help them realize where there are economic development opportunities that might not immediately be obvious.

I believe as a government we have an obligation and a responsibility to try to help communities pursue those so they can be self-sustaining. Not everybody is going to want to work in the mining industry. Not everyone is going to want to be in oil and gas. I think it’s not immediately obvious always that there are markets out there for many products that we traditionally harvest in the North and could continue to do so and it can be very lucrative.

So, yes, our department is certainly willing to work with people in the communities to help them realize these opportunities and I certainly look forward to good suggestions coming from that side of the House from many of the very entrepreneurial Members who’ve spent some good time thinking about this. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Allen.

Supplementary To Question 34-15(3): Supporting Resource Development In Small Communities

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m very pleased to hear that the Minister is prepared to work with us in trying to address some of the key questions that are raised consistently by our constituents. Again, it goes back to my statement yesterday about how we want to put people back on the land to become resourceful again. So I’m going to ask the Minister if he’s prepared to work with the Minister of ECE to develop an initiative that would influence people to move back on the land and not only develop land skills, but also to help in the recovery process of many of their social problems that are consistent with a number of the questions other Members have asked in the past. I would ask the Minister if he’s prepared to work with the Minister of ECE to introduce some new initiatives that would support that. Thank you.

Minister of RWED, Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 34-15(3): Supporting Resource Development In Small Communities

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’ll certainly sit down with my Cabinet colleagues and specifically Minister Dent to discuss this issue because I think it’s very important that we support people who want to pursue traditional lifestyles and want to live on the land. Obviously, though, you have to have some means to sustain yourself. You have to have some ability to have an income. I think that I am certainly very proud of the work that we’ve done for the hunting and trapping, specifically the trapping community. I think our Mackenzie Valley fur pricing program, the prime fur bonus, helps and goes a long way toward helping trappers making a living at this pursuit. I think it’s by far probably the best program in the country in this regard.

I know it’s important for us to help people get back on the land if that’s what they choose, but we have to recognize that it will be about economic development programs because most people simply can’t sustain themselves without some ability to pursue an income. I think we need to work very closely as a government, as a Cabinet, but it will be about a lot of the programs that this department is responsible for delivering. I think a lot of that responsibility will come on my shoulders as Minister of this department. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Allen.

Supplementary To Question 34-15(3): Supporting Resource Development In Small Communities

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m pleased to hear that and my final question to the Minister then is, is he willing to put more money toward the marketing aspect of that resource development in support of the trappers? Once they’re on the land they’re self-sustaining, as we know as previous trappers, hunters and food gatherers. So I’m going to ask if he’s prepared to put money into the marketing aspect of that sector of the economy. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister of RWED, Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 34-15(3): Supporting Resource Development In Small Communities

Thank you. We do rely on southern auction houses to sell the furs, and I know the Member is very aware of that. I think we recognize that we had some communication problems initially with helping people in the territory understand some of the recent changes we’ve made to the programs. Sometimes that’s because there’s turnover at the local level and we tried to address that by putting together a communications package and making sure that our renewable resource officers have this information and can speak with community members. I think it’s also about making sure that in the large markets in southern Canada or the United States, people have an understanding and a recognition of just how valuable our Mackenzie Valley furs are. That’s why we’ve tried to make sure that our fur pricing bonus is available for the finest furs so that when people see products from the Northwest Territories they’re impressed and it creates demand and that will allow us to keep these trappers doing what they do best, as the Member has said. Once they’re on the land they are sustainable.

So I think we need to work with southern auction houses to continue to develop this genuine Mackenzie Valley fur program, to make sure that there is a demand and there is a premium for furs coming from the Northwest Territories. I have asked the department to carefully look at many of our programs and see if we can’t take a look at some of the rationale for doing these, make sure that the programs we’re delivering are still our highest priority programs.

I have no illusions and no belief that we’re going to find a lot of new money, so I’ve asked the department to look at some of the money we’re currently spending and if we’re spending money in priority areas that no longer seem to make sense, then I’d like to adjust it and move it into some areas that we know are important to us going forward. I do believe there will be a lot of profile on oil and gas and on mining and that needs a lot of our support, but largely economic issues will drive that. If we truly believe that we’re going to and it’s important to have a diversified economy, we need to put more money into some of these other activities and I’ll certainly work to continue to do that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday in the budget address there was a line item of $300,000 directed at assisting land-use planning studies, new technical investigations and other items related to development. Mr. Speaker, my question to the Minister of Finance is when will tax-based communities receive similar treatment? Thank you.

Minister of Finance.

Return To Question 35-15(3): Fair Treatment Of Tax -Based Communities

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the arrangements we have now with tax-based municipalities are such that they have advantages in dealing with developing lots in their communities through financing and so on. This measure we've taken, although small, is an initial step to try to help the general taxation communities with their ability to develop some of those lots and encourage some development in those small communities that are right now not feeling much from the spin-off effects of other development around the territory. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 35-15(3): Fair Treatment Of Tax-Based Communities

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My next question to the Minister of Finance is does he recognize that $300,000 is merely a drop in the bucket for any land-use planning in any type of development, and does he note how far $300,000 goes? Can he give us examples of how that money will be spent fairly amongst all the non-tax-based communities?

Minister of Finance.

Further Return To Question 35-15(3): Fair Treatment Of Tax-Based Communities

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, that is a small amount of money but it is a start, and we need to start working in that area to help the small communities in our territory start doing some of this land development. The Department of Municipal and Community Affairs has the detail as to how they will allocate those dollars in a number of the communities. I am sure the Member will be able to get that detail as we go through the budget process. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 35-15(3): Fair Treatment Of Tax-Based Communities

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Then at this time I'll ask the honourable Member if he will provide a briefing note to all Members. Thank you.

Minister of Finance.

Further Return To Question 35-15(3): Fair Treatment Of Tax-Based Communities

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, we will have that information provided to Members when they go through the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs budget.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance also with regard to the budget address. It was very interesting listening to all the feedback that came in following the budget address yesterday in the media and to hear the Finance Minister being interviewed last night on Northbeat and on CBC this morning, and to hear the people's responses on the budget address. Overall, on balance, it seemed like it wasn't that unfavourable.

But nestled in the budget address, kind of in an inconspicuous place under fiscal strategy, it states in the longer term we will need to find an additional $20 million in expenditure savings or cost avoidance in each of the following two fiscal years if we are to balance our budget by 2006-2007, which the Finance Minister clearly indicated he was committed to doing. That is a significant amount of money. We certainly all know as politicians that a lot of our people have a lot of ideas about how this government could spend more money. But, Mr. Speaker, I maintain that those same people also have a lot of ideas about how this government could save money and spend less money in certain areas.

So I would like to know what the Finance Minister has planned in terms of any kind of formal dialogue. Certainly through our constituents and through Members you will get input and feedback on that, but being as we are embarking on what could be some difficult economic times, some difficult fiscal times, does the Finance Minister have any plan to receive and document and respond to those kinds of suggestions which I'm sure people will come forward with? Thank you.

Minister of Finance.

Return To Question 36-15(3): Formal Process For Receiving The Public’s Suggestions For Fiscal Restraint

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would gladly receive input from residents across the Territories on what we could do to save dollars for government and for the people overall as taxpayers. Mr. Speaker, one of the problems we had again was the timeline and choosing to come forward and have a full budget by the end of this fiscal year -- that's the end of this month – which put us under some severe time constraints as to what we could do. One of the processes I will follow, besides the fact that we will be working with Members and the northern leaders next month as we lay out and give the information we have about our fiscal situation, is to consult with northerners and through chambers of commerce and other groups, seeking more input in what might be achieved through our budget reform process. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 36-15(3): Formal Process For Receiving The Public’s Suggestions For Fiscal Restraint

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I think we have a tendency sometimes to look for big-tickets items, items that are in the hundreds of thousands and millions of dollars where we can save money. I think where our constituents and people in the public service could help us is in areas involving smaller amounts and smaller adjustments where the impacts won't be felt as greatly, but added all together they would make a significant difference, as well. That's why I think it's important to have some mechanism set up where these kinds of suggestions can be channelled and properly considered and responded to. So I would look forward to the Minister coming forward with something like that. Otherwise it's just possible to lose those suggestions in the fray of day-to-day business. Thank you.