Debates of March 2, 2006 (day 40)

Mr. Speaker, my questions this afternoon are for Mr. Dent as the Minister responsible for the Workers’ Compensation Board of the Northwest Territories and Nunavut. Mr. Speaker, our Workers' Compensation Board spends dollars, significant dollars, and retains a substantial legal talent to apply and interpret the rules and implement the procedures that hit holes when considering the cases of injured workers who bring claims before it. But Mr. Speaker, one injured worker at least has had to endure significant procedural steps and a significantly long period of time in order to get, potentially, some resolve. The trouble is, Mr. Speaker, that he had to go to the Supreme Court of the Northwest Territories, not the Workers' Compensation Board’s own, as I say, I think very well funded and very largely staffed legal and appeals tribunal. Mr. Speaker, why did this worker have to go all the way to the Supreme Court to hold the WCB accountable?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. The honourable Minister responsible for the Workers’ Compensation Board, Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 501-15(4): WCB Chronic Pain Policy

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think it’s worth noting that in 2001 this worker, through the worker's advisor, approached the governance council and asked that a ruling of the appeals tribunal be reviewed. The governance council at that time agreed that it needed to be reviewed and it was the governance council itself that directed the appeals tribunal to rehear the case, but the appeals tribunal felt that it wasn’t appropriate for it to rehear the case and, based on that, it got bounced back. So the worker followed the process of going to the courts and having the court rule that the appeals tribunal should again hear the case. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 501-15(4): WCB Chronic Pain Policy

Mr. Speaker, what actions will the governance council of the WCB take to address the shortcomings in its chronic pain policy, Mr. Speaker?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 501-15(4): WCB Chronic Pain Policy

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. At the time this case was taken to the courts and the policy that applied to the case goes back to before there was a clear policy in place from the WCB. The WCB has, since the Martin case in the Atlantic provinces in 2004, adopted a policy around chronic pain. What they have done since adopting that policy is direct their council to approach the courts to ensure that that policy is in compliance with the Charter and all court decisions. They have committed, at their most recent meeting, to revise the policy if anything is found wanting in it.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 501-15(4): WCB Chronic Pain Policy

So, Mr. Speaker, the court is going to come up with rules regarding chronic pain and how it’s applied, not our own governance council, our own potentially Legislative Assembly, our own stakeholders. Is this responsible governance to go back to the court to tell them, to ask them to set our policy? Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 501-15(4): WCB Chronic Pain Policy

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I didn’t say that the courts were going to set the policy. I said that the governance council had set a policy in place and they were going to the courts to seek a reference to ensure that their policy is compliant with the Charter of Rights and is in compliance with previous rulings of other courts in Canada. I want to be perfectly clear that the WCB policy does allow for chronic pain sufferers to be allocated a pension, whether a temporary or partial pension or total disability pension. Those are all possible right now. What the WCB is doing, though, is making sure that the policy is entirely compliant with all the rules that would govern a policy of this sort in Canada.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Final supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 501-15(4): WCB Chronic Pain Policy

Mr. Speaker, would the Minister or would the WCB, through the Minister, make available to this Assembly, and to the stakeholders, and the public, the draft or the proposed policy that it is going to submit to the courts to see indeed if the policy fits the needs of the stakeholders and not only the courts, Mr. Speaker?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 501-15(4): WCB Chronic Pain Policy

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I said earlier, this is not a draft policy at this point. It was adopted by the governance council in 2004 and I would point out that the governance council is made up of stakeholders from the people in the Northwest Territories. Business representatives, employer representatives, employee representatives make up the governance council. The answer to the direct question is, yes, I will make sure the Member and all Members get copies of the policy.

Question 502-15(4): WCB Assessment Rates For Quick Service Restaurants

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions are to Mr. Dent and it’s following up on my Member’s statement. Mr. Speaker, we have a situation here where businesses like Tim Horton’s, McDonald’s, Quizno’s, Pizza Hut and all those businesses that are in Yellowknife have seen the increase of WCB rates at maximum levels for four years in a row. That’s more than double over four years. I have, in front of me, assessment rates for the last three years for all the other categories that WCB has, and no one has seen that kind of increase four years in a row. They have been doing everything they can to get the attention of the WCB Governance Council and the Minister. They have held meetings; they’ve had briefings; they’ve done everything they can to have them re-look at what can be done to improve this. I understand they’re meeting as we speak and I am not at all confident that we are going to be able to achieve any resolution or any positive feedback or as the Minister can tell here today otherwise. So I’d like to know what steps he’s prepared to take to work with the governance council and see if there could be any reprieve for this group, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. The Honourable Charles Dent, Minister responsible for the Workers’ Compensation Board.

Return To Question 502-15(4): WCB Assessment Rates For Quick Service Restaurants

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First off I would like to point out that everybody in the Northwest Territories, every employer in the Territories has typically seen an increase over the past three or four years. Until 2003, because of good investments, the accident fund was what was called over funded. The governance council thought that in order to reduce their over funded position and to give some money back to employers, that they would offer subsidies. So up until 2003 there was a 35 percent discount. Mr. Speaker, that means that if your rates were $1 per hundred that you were paying, after the discount, 65 cents per hundred. Between 2003 and 2006 that discount was taken off. It was reduced over time. That means that somebody’s rate has gone from, or apparent rate, has gone from 65 cents a hundred to $1 a hundred. If you look at it thinking that 65 cents is your starting point, you’ve seen a 54 percent increase in your rates.

So what has happened, that is something that is outside what is seen as or what has happened in terms of accident records to change rates. Over the same period of time, the accidents that have been seen in different categories have caused them to go up. Now, the board has a policy that changes of more than 25 percent will not be allowed. That’s a policy decision. It’s one that the board has instituted in order to make sure that sudden changes aren’t seen. I’m advised that if they had actually allowed the rates to go to where they should be for this category, that they would be in excess of $4 instead of at $2.93 per hundred. So right now, the board has already made a policy decision to make sure that the amount is, or that this group is, protected from a rate increase.

I think that the governance council members are meeting with the quick service restaurants as we speak, I believe, and I have no doubt that the same question will be put to them there. This is a policy decision that the governance council could take. They could take a position that a lesser amount of increase was allowed and I have no doubt that it is a question that they will consider. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 502-15(4): WCB Assessment Rates For Quick Service Restaurants

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As always, the Minister is burning up valuable question period time defending the status quo and not answering my question. Mr. Speaker, if he wishes, I’d be happy to go over the whole list. You know, I could do that just as well. My question is very simple, Mr. Speaker. Even with the subsidy, there are no categories that I have in front of me that have seen a 25 percent maximum increase four years in a row. These groups are stuck, and there’s nobody telling them what they can do to get out. There’s no way for them to get out of a different category. There’s no explanation as how they can improve so they can graduate from that category. There’s just no option. It’s like, you have to pay and pay up. There’s no means of appeal. The Minister knows already that that outcome is not positive, but I want to give him a chance to explain that. So I’d like to know, and I didn’t get the confirmation with the governance council today, would the Minister direct the GC or talk to them to review the whole cross-subsidization process so that no other group could see maximum increases four years in a row? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 502-15(4): WCB Assessment Rates For Quick Service Restaurants

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Certainly I will request the governance council to consider that situation or that position and ask that they, at their next meeting, consider it. Thanks.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 502-15(4): WCB Assessment Rates For Quick Service Restaurants

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, would the Minister ask the governance council to at least take a leadership role? I mean, if he’s just going to ask the governance council and have the governance council come back and say, I could do that job just as well. You know? I could write a letter to the governance council and he could come back and say sorry, Ms. Lee, I considered your option and it ain’t going to happen. So I’d like to know what he can do as the Minister of WCB responsible for the portfolio and who’d have to answer to if businesses go down, what’s he prepared to do as a Minister to make some changes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 502-15(4): WCB Assessment Rates For Quick Service Restaurants

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I certainly hope that we don’t see these businesses go down. I enjoy being able to access the services and products that they provide as much as anybody else. Mr. Speaker, just as insurance on a car is a cost of doing business, so is insurance for your employees. I’ve probably put $60,000 or $70,000 more into the pockets of insurance companies than I’ve ever claimed back for my car and I think that we’re going to have to recognize that there are costs to doing business. I’d be happy to, as I said, direct the governance council to consider this. I think all of the stakeholders have to be involved in considering an approach that the Member is suggesting, because it is a zero sum game. It takes X number of dollars to operate the WCB and look after the injured workers and so if one group is paying less, another group has to pay more. So I would be happy to ensure that this issue is considered, but I think we’re going to have to involve more of the stakeholders. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Final supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 502-15(4): WCB Assessment Rates For Quick Service Restaurants

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this is what’s most frustrating about this exercise that’s been going on for a very long time, because I don’t believe that the Minister and the governance council, from all of my meetings, that they really understand the QSR has a different problem than the rest of them. I am not interested in Minister talking about what his experience is like as a regular insurance payer because that tells me he does not recognize the unique circumstances under which this group finds themselves in, and they need attention, and they need careful review, and that has not been done, Mr. Speaker. So, in fact, I don’t know if I can do anything more. So I would like to ask the Minister, I understand this is something he could do directly, there is a vacancy on the board and I think we should get a direct input from this group so that they could have a different perspective, small businesses that’s not there. So I’d like to know if the Minister would consider appointing members from QSR into the boards. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 502-15(4): WCB Assessment Rates For Quick Service Restaurants

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I had received an e-mail message from one of those groups suggesting that very thing. It is certainly something that could be considered. Typically the past practice of this in our government has been that pan-territorial organizations are consulted, but that doesn’t mean that other nominees can’t be considered. So, yes, I guess we could consider any nominee that comes in from the business community. Thank you.

Question 503-15(4): Appointment Of Regional Superintendents

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Premier. With the appointment of the regional superintendents of the Executive, how much autonomy will the Sahtu region now have to conduct its own affairs? Thank you.

Mahsi, Mr. Yakeleya. The honourable Premier, Mr. Handley.

Return To Question 503-15(4): Appointment Of Regional Superintendents

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Where the programs have been transferred to the Sahtu region, then they will have the same autonomy as any other region. An example is with the Housing Corporation; transfers have not been completed in other departments. Transportation, for example. We would have to make that at some point in the future. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Supplementary To Question 503-15(4): Appointment Of Regional Superintendents

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That begs the next question. When will we see full transportation authority or services program into the Sahtu and other departments like the Department of Justice in terms of those type of responsibilities coming to the Sahtu region? The Premier has said in the near future; however, I’m looking for more specific timelines to that question. Thank you.

Mahsi, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Handley.

Further Return To Question 503-15(4): Appointment Of Regional Superintendents

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I heard someone say when you get the billion dollars.

---Laughter

Mr. Speaker, we would need to have justification for a superintendent, and staff, and office space, and so one to move departments. In some cases there isn’t the workload right now. You know, if we’re successful in getting infrastructure money for a highway through the Sahtu, then it may at that time be justified, but right now I don’t think there’s the workload. The same applies I believe with Justice. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Supplementary To Question 503-15(4): Appointment Of Regional Superintendents

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think we’re going to be waiting for a long time in the Sahtu in terms of types of superintendents we’re going to have in our region. So anyhow, that’s for another day. I wanted to ask the Premier, will the regional superintendents of the Executive be able to override the deputy ministers in providing directions to other departmental superintendents? Thank you.

Mahsi, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Premier.

Further Return To Question 503-15(4): Appointment Of Regional Superintendents

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, the Executive superintendents in the regions will not be dictators or some kind of autonomous rulers in there. They’re going to have to live by the guidelines, the directions, the legislation and the Minister’s direction the same as all employees. So they won’t be able to overrule the whole system. No, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr Premier. Final supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Supplementary To Question 503-15(4): Appointment Of Regional Superintendents

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I don’t think I was suggesting that the regional superintendents be dictators. I think we have enough in Yellowknife here to dictate to how the regions are going to run.

Ohhh.