Debates of March 2, 2006 (day 40)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we’ll ensure that the meat does not go to waste and, as I indicated, the officers will be very sensitive to the fact that we’ve changed the rules of hunting game here and we will work with that perspective in mind. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Final supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 507-15(4): Caribou Management Policies And Procedures

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Well, I appreciate the passion that the Minister comes forward, but I mean an enforcement officer, are you telling me he has to make a judgment call? Why don’t we create a $100 tag directed just in case a cow is shot, therefore, a member of our public isn’t burdened with that type of risk of a judgment call and they pay $100 tag, which seems reasonable, because if the accident happens they shoot one, at least they’re covered? So what are we going to do to protect the accident that could happen? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Minister Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 507-15(4): Caribou Management Policies And Procedures

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We believe we have laid out a reasonable approach. We’re going to work to implement it, lay out all the detail that we will transmit to the public and to the Members and that’s the approach that we’re going to take. Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, I have a question for Mr. Dent as the Minister for Education, Culture and Employment. It’s a bit of a follow-up, Mr. Speaker, from an item that we discussed here in this Assembly last fall regarding the status of people who enter the adult basic education course, but who, in a lot of cases, Mr. Speaker, find themselves without the supports, without the cash flow to be able to continue in ABE and thus seem to end up back in that cycle of poverty and not being able to get ahead. When we discussed this in the fall, the Minister committed to looking at what could be done and I wanted to see if since then the department has looked into what we can do, Mr. Speaker, to improve supports for adult basic education students in the NWT.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 508-15(4): Financial Support For Adult Basic Education Students

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Member and I had some discussion about this last fall and I would agree with the Member that there is a gap in our policies right now wherein living allowances are not provided for people who are looking at adult basic education, adults who may want to upgrade. I believe my commitment at the time was through the next business planning cycle that I would attempt to see if we could not approve the supports. Mr. Speaker, that business planning cycle starts for the government in June and I would hope that by that time I would be able to advance this proposal and see if we have the money in order to move forward with some better supports. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 508-15(4): Financial Support For Adult Basic Education Students

Mr. Speaker, we seem to have a couple of options here. A number of the clients who try to get into this kind of program are on income support and there is really no provision for them to cover the extra expenses that they might incur. Meanwhile, we obviously do not allow ABE instruction on the same basis for funding as regular student financial assistance. Has the department been able to look at whether or not we can change our minds about SFA and help enrol these people on that same basis and help them get further ahead, Mr. Speaker?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Minister Dent.

Further Return To Question 508-15(4): Financial Support For Adult Basic Education Students

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In order to do that, it would take legislative change because the SFA Act stipulates that support is only provided to post-secondary students through that program. Just in terms of the overall changes to our regulations of policies and the legislation, I think that would be too time consuming. I’m trying to move forward with something that would respond more quickly to what I see as an important need that we should address.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 508-15(4): Financial Support For Adult Basic Education Students

Mr. Speaker, I’d certainly support something that’s more timely. If there’s a way of enabling our system to be more responsive, we invest already quite heavily in enabling organizations like the Native Women’s Association to deliver ABE, but it seems now with our society, our economy working the way it is, we’ve got to do some more to enable the students to actually participate in this. So would the Minister be able to bring something forward, perhaps as early as this spring, that would enable even a pilot project to get underway and see if we can find a better way to do this, Mr. Speaker?

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 508-15(4): Financial Support For Adult Basic Education Students

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I don’t have the funds identified in the budget that we’ve just passed in order to do a special project like that, but I’m certainly prepared to advance this. I agree with the Member that it’s an area that needs to be dealt with and I am looking to try and deal with it through the business planning process. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I’m amazed that the government is broke already; we just gave them a billion dollars.

---Laughter

My question is for the Minister of Public Works and Services. Earlier this week, members of my community got together with respect to accessibility for disabled. I was just wondering if there was an assessment done on all the facilities that government owns and leases in the Nahendeh riding with respect to accessibility access. Thank you.

Mahsi, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Roland.

Return To Question 509-15(4): Accessibility For Disabled Persons In The Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am not aware of an issue that has caused us to go out and look at all the facilities that we’re involved in. If there is an issue that’s come about, I will gladly have my department take a look at that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Supplementary To Question 509-15(4): Accessibility For Disabled Persons In The Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s a bit of an issue. Communities like Trout Lake have a ramp for the disabled, but it’s like gravel so it’s quite a lot of work to get somebody up a gravel ramp. Those are issues to look at. As well, there is a building that we actually lease in Fort Simpson where stairs are the only way to get up to the second floor and that’s just not acceptable in this day and age. So those are the types of issues that I bring to the Minister’s attention. Will he conduct an assessment of all the buildings we do have there? Mahsi.

Mahsi, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 509-15(4): Accessibility For Disabled Persons In The Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we do, when we are into new leases or building new infrastructure, the new requirements for access by disabled is incorporated and put in there. For the older leases we have, at times we would have to look at when we renew the lease to have some modifications brought in. As I stated, we will have the department look at this and see what options there might be available. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Time for oral questions has expired; however, I will allow the Member to conclude his supplementary questions. Mr. Menicoche.

Supplementary To Question 509-15(4): Accessibility For Disabled Persons In The Nahendeh

Good Speaker. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just one more time, will the Minister conduct an assessment? He said he would bring it to the attention of his officials, but I was just looking to see that he will conduct an assessment soon. I am sure there are some leases coming up here shortly as well. Mahsi.

Mahsi, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 509-15(4): Accessibility For Disabled Persons In The Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, I will have the Department of Public Works work with our infrastructure to have a look around and work with other departments to see what is out there and the facilities we lease and what requirement it might take to bring those up to code. Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, I am in receipt of Return to Written Question 28-15(4) asked by Mr. Villeneuve on February 14, 2006, to the Honourable Michael McLeod, Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, regarding exemptions for land lease only policies.

Mr. Villeneuve asked what discussions or consultations took place with the parties affected by this decision to make an exemption to the policy, and whether there was any opportunity for the parties to allow all parties to have input and discussion.

Mr. Speaker, the Member's questions are in the context of the announcement I made on February 7, 2006, respecting the allocation of certain parcels of Commissioner's land to the City of Yellowknife, in fee-simple title.

The decision to transfer the lands was made only after extensive consultation, both formal and information, was undertaken.

All applications for access to Commissioner's land in unsettled land claim areas are subject to the land lease only policy. Under the policy, the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs consults with a wide range of stakeholders, including community governments, regulatory authorities, other government departments and aboriginal organizations. Stakeholders are provided with 30 days in which to submit comments or to make any objections known respecting a proposed disposition of Commissioner's land.

In addition, the Akaitcho Process Interim Measures Agreement spells out further consultation requirements before any disposition of Commissioner's land can occur in the Akaitcho area.

The City of Yellowknife's application was subject to consultation under both these formal processes.

Secondly, the Member asked whether all parties had the opportunity to provide input, and whether any formal agreement was reached. Finally, the Member asked why discussions on this transfer were rushed.

In addition to formal consultation, the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs, in cooperation with the Ministry of Aboriginal Affairs, made sustained and substantive efforts to consult with the Yellowknives Dene First Nation at the staff and political leaders' level, in an effort to find solutions that would accommodate the needs of all parties. These discussions began in April 2005, after the city first applied for the transfer of a large parcel of land. At that time, at the request of the Yellowknives Dene First Nation chiefs, all decisions on land transfers were delayed until September, in order to allow time for the identification of Akaitcho land interests to proceed. In September, I again delayed decisions on land transfers, at the request of the Akaitcho Dene First Nation, until January.

Mr. Speaker, by the end of January 2006, the Akaitcho Dene First Nation had still not completed their land identification exercise. I offered to brief the Akaitcho Dene First Nation chiefs on the land allocation I was considering for the city, but they declined my offer. I then used the best and most current information available to me to make land allocation decisions that were designed to ease the city's immediate land pressures. At the same time, the Minister responsible for Aboriginal Affairs and I announced a two-year freeze on the disposition of lands where the Akaitcho have identified an interest, in order to support the completion of Akaitcho Process interim land withdrawal negotiations.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following document entitled Framework for Action 2005-2008 Status Report to December 31, 2005. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Minister, I wish to table the following documents entitled Corridors for Canada II: Building on our Success, and Connecting Canada: Coast to Coast to Coast. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. (English not provided)…Mr. Speaker, recognizing the value of elders’ knowledge, I would like to talk on the motion.

WHEREAS elders have the highly valued and respected role of passing on the stories, traditions and knowledge of our culture to younger generations;

AND WHEREAS many elders are considered by their people to be experts in traditional knowledge to at least the same extent that individuals with PhD degrees are considered to be experts in their fields;

AND WHEREAS the GNWT and industry have recognized elders' traditional knowledge and expertise by calling on them for advice about the land and animals;

AND WHEREAS elders are frequently called upon by schools, learning centres and government-sponsored conferences and workshops to share their traditional knowledge and are often expected to do so without any payment or for a nominal fee;

AND WHEREAS the payments elders do receive, small as they are, are often clawed back from their pensions so that they effectively receive no compensation at all for their expertise and services;

NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Sahtu, that the government establish standards for paying elders for their traditional knowledge comparable to fees paid to other expert consultants;

AND FURTHER, that the government implement measures to ensure that payments to elders are not clawed back from their pensions. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Mahsi, Mr. Lafferty. The motion is in order. Mr. Lafferty.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I think this motion we are talking about has been long outstanding, especially in the small, isolated communities where we heavily depend on elders’ knowledge and wisdom. We, as a territorial government, need to recognize that there are essential needs and services that are required to do the day-to-day activities in the communities. When we visited the communities throughout the pre-budget consultation process and also our Social Programs tour of the communities, we’ve heard over and over during our public consultation or on the side conversation where elders are sometimes paid $100 compared to a consultant fee that is upwards of $1,000. There is a huge difference there, Mr. Speaker. I think we need to comprise. We are not saying pay the elders $1,000 a day, but we are saying be equal to what the consultants are getting paid for their expertise. We recognize elders as a PhD when it comes to traditional knowledge and sharing their wisdom, their bush skills. That’s what they recognize.

Mr. Speaker, I certainly hope that this government will take this into consideration as a motion that’s been put forward. This will satisfy a lot of elders. A lot of elders are reaching 70, 80 or 90 years of age and we still utilize their service to the full extent in the communities. The government programs and services have fully utilized these services, as well. It’s time that we recognize their services as experts in their field of expertise. This is why we are presenting this motion to this House, so it’s recognized and we should be paying equal or similar to what the consultants are being paid, Mr. Speaker. This will truly serve the service that they provide to us. It will be a bit more available. We are going to have more elders getting more involved in sharing their wisdom and knowledge to proceed even further in the cultural programs, language enhancement programs. What we are doing now will be further enhanced. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Mahsi, Mr. Lafferty. To the motion. Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just wanted to thank the honourable Member for Monfwi, Mr. Lafferty, for putting this motion on the floor here. I wanted to support this motion. I am very glad to second it. This motion speaks to the very valued essence of our people and honouring our elders in this manner. It would be equivalent to a PhD professor or someone who has a master’s degree in the western concept of education. The elders are the reason why we are here today, Mr. Speaker. It’s the elders who guide us in our communities. They may not be in front of our political arenas and they may have been pushed aside over the period of time, but it’s really them we receive guidance from.

When I ran as an MLA, it was the elders who guided me in this process. It was them who gave a lot of wisdom to me. Sometimes I take it and sometimes I don’t take it. I know what happens when I don’t take it. I fall and I hurt pretty badly. It’s the elders who have kept me on this path and they will continue to do so and it’s about time that we recognize them for the true capacity.

Elders will watch this House and they will watch what kind of support we are going to give them in terms of bringing them up to a status where we look at teachers or anybody who comes into our communities with PhDs and we say they have all the answers, but we don’t really give that to our elders. We don’t pay them and if we do, we claw them back. It’s the system that hurts them. It’s something that needs to be corrected.

I certainly hope that this government takes a serious look at how we can bring the elders up to a statue that we were once revving for. Mr. Speaker, I am going to support this motion whole heartedly knowing it’s out there, and now it’s up to the government to decide what they are going to do with it. It’s our grandparents and parents who are the ones we are speaking about. They are the ones we need to consider. This motion is long overdue, as said in the past, and I feel very good about seconding this motion. Thank you.

---Applause

Mahsi, Mr. Yakeleya. To the motion. Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. With respect to the motion, I, too, see that as a gap. As a Member with many small communities and many elders in the communities, having their knowledge valued is something that is of great importance. As well, many of the elders I represent are not wealthy elders. They don’t have huge RRSP stockpiles on which to draw upon. Often the only income they have is what they get from the federal government and what they get from the territorial government. Often they are used at meetings for consultation. We bring them to meetings. We pay them a limited amount of money, but that gets added to their income, so it affects their ability to draw on income support programs that we do have, like the fuel subsidy. It’s all income tested.

Yet, we are paying how much to the elders and providing them income when we use their services, but the motion speaks about are we really giving them the value. Then you get some pimpled guy from the university and we are paying him $1,000 or $1,200 a day for his advice. It’s just not right. The people from the land are experts. So we have to recognize them. Just speaking back to my first point, there must be a way to assist them from not getting clawed back. It’s up to Members on this side to point out the gaps and inconsistencies, and it’s governments’ responsibilities to find or see if there is a way to assist them without getting clawed back or just not count it in their income when we want to assist them with some income support programs that we offer.

I will be voting in favour of this motion, Mr. Speaker. I support it wholeheartedly. It’s a motion whose time has come. Mahsi cho.

---Applause

Mahsi, Mr. Menicoche. To the motion. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just want to speak in support of this motion. I want people to know truly that, as the Member for Monfwi has said, this is about fair treatment. This is about respect for the elders. This is about showing that we care about their valued work and we do not believe this motion…This motion says we do not believe that their work should be undervalued. It should be appreciated for what they do. This will not break this government to take this into consideration and I certainly hope that this government is listening and I certainly hope the Premier will allow Members of Cabinet to have a free vote on this issue, so we can show that our elders are supported. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. To the motion.

Question.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

---Applause