Debates of March 24, 2004 (day 7)

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I think the next question for the Minister from me would be that I’m just trying to determine whether the priority is identified in this special report. I was wondering if there was a move or trend towards having more aboriginal language and culture used in the school. Some of my constituents were talking to me. They’re saying, Kevin, the way it looks to me is that the government has a priority in languages and culture, yet we’re actually only spending five to 10 percent of our time in these endeavours. So what’s the real priority? I’d just like to ask the Minister if, in fact, there is a move to utilize aboriginal languages and cultures more in the school.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, in terms of total funding in 2002-2003, we provided school boards with almost $6.5 million in total towards aboriginal language and culture programs. As I said, there hasn’t been a lot of consistency in how that has been spent, and there has been some concern about whether or not we can demonstrate to this Assembly that it has been spent in ways that Members would consider appropriate. Knowing that, I’ve talked to the Chairs of the boards and advised them that we need to work on a directive to make sure that the spending is able to be demonstrated to the Members of this Assembly as being spent appropriately. That’s what we will be ensuring is happening starting this fall.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you very much. I can appreciate also some of the local resource problems with regard to aboriginal languages and culture. Some of the things that lead me to think that it can be improved more efficiently is if we use the languages and culture more and it’s more supported by our government and as a result by our education department. For instance, it was brought to my attention the Jewish people in Ontario are all really strongly knowledgeable in their languages and in their culture. I was wondering how an almost dead culture continues to be fluent in their language and their culture. It was pointed out to me that what happens is that they got buy-in from the school boards in Ontario to spend a huge amount of time utilizing their language and culture to be taught in the schools. For example, it would be taught all day on a Friday.

It kind of made sense to me that that’s something I’d like to pursue as an elected Member to this government, that we should be using our aboriginal languages all day. The way it’s situated right now, it’s just not working to be speaking English all evening, come to school in the morning, speak Slavey for an hour and then finish off the rest of your school in English. I’m gravitating towards increasing this component. Yes, it’s every day, but perhaps let’s set it aside for a Friday and spend most of our time in the aboriginal language.

It might take a huge shift in our thinking because now we’re not just going to be teaching languages all day, we’re going to have to start concentrating on the fundamentals of math and sciences. That’s a huge undertaking itself, but I’d like to steer the government in that direction, saying it’s valuable enough and this is the direction we should go to maintain our language and culture, and to reaffirm them for our youth and for our future. I’d just like the Minister’s comments on those thoughts of guiding our aboriginal languages and culture and firmly entrenching them in our education system.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Right now DECs and DEAs can do that sort of thing. That’s permitted. We would welcome seeing it happen. The problem is often, as the Member has already noted, the resources and finding teachers who are fluent in the local languages is sometimes a problem. There’s no question that it can be done. There can be more done in aboriginal languages in the school and we encourage more and more of it to take place. I think it’s important to remember that the schools can’t save the language. Again it comes back to family and community buy-in. There has to be more than just an hour a day or all day Friday at school in order to make the language stay alive and thrive. It has to be something that people in the community are supporting and happy to use at home.

One of the areas where we have tremendous success in the school systems is in the Tlicho region. You visit Chief Jimmy Bruneau School and when you walk through the halls there you don’t hear teenagers speaking English. You tend to hear the teenagers speaking in their own language. When you know that the kids are comfortable in their own language, they’re speaking it without being in a classroom, without being forced to speak it, that’s when you know that the language is going to stay alive and thrive. That’s what you need to see. That’s not happening because it’s being taught at the school, it’s happening because there’s community leaders’ support for the language, and the leaders and the community use their language all the time. The schools are part of it, but there has to be a real broad support for language use in the communities around the North in order to make sure that the languages stay alive and thrive.

We can do our part, and DEAs and DECs should be doing as much as they can to use the language of the communities, but we need families and leaders to buy in as well.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. What I heard from the Minister was that the authority is there with the divisional boards to allow that kind of structure to exist, which is to have a day set aside to concentrate on education of aboriginal languages. Maybe if the Minister could confirm that for me.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, that’s something that is completely open to DEAs. For instance, in K to 3 the DEA could decide to do the entire program in an aboriginal language. It could be five days a week. The flexibility is there within our system to allow a significant amount of aboriginal language programming. It’s a challenge for a lot of districts though to find adequate resources, to find people who can teach and speak the language as well. That does become a big problem. Then we need to make sure that our communities are being supported.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Now we’ll go on to Mr. Villeneuve.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just have one more issue with the education and culture. I just wanted to touch on a subject that I’m sure we’ve all had questions about and we’re all familiar with. That has to do with sex education in our school systems. Just noting that, I know that people and students that are well educated in sex, and the outcome of irresponsible sexual behaviour would make more informed decisions with respect to the actions they take and some informed decisions in modifying their sexual practices. It would help alleviate a lot of problems we have with combating STDs and other diseases such as HIV and AIDS, and just basically improve the overall eternal health of students. I know it’s something that has always been an issue with a lot of families and high school students and a lot of DEAs.

I’m just wondering if the government has a policy with respect to how sex education is conducted, or if it is in any of our school systems and how they could develop a system where students wouldn’t be so compelled to take it lightly and be more diligent when considering courses of this nature. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Courses that teach the sorts of things the Member was talking about -- I believe it’s called Healthy Relationships -- is part of the health curriculum and is required to be taken. I think it starts in Grade 8 or so. There is a requirement that it be taught. I can tell the Member that when I was Minister five years ago, I would often take the opportunity when I was visiting schools to ask high school students their thoughts about AIDS and so on. I found that the students were actually very well informed about sexually-transmitted diseases and the implications, yet, after I asked the question, they would often indicate to me that it didn’t seem to matter in terms of altering their behaviour. There seems to be a bit of a problem in altering the behaviour, not teaching it. They were very well informed and able to prove that they had taken the course, but they didn’t seem to think it was all that important to them. So we have some work to do there.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Villeneuve.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just to top up on that question. I know in a lot of communities there are high incident rates of teen pregnancies and what not. I know that it has always been a conundrum for district education authorities to try and tackle and find ways to resolve and educate youth in that area. I was just wondering if it is a DEA role whether a school incorporates a program like that, Healthy Relationships and such.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. No, that’s not an optional program. It’s a required part of the curriculum, it must be taught.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Villeneuve.

I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. Thank you very much.

If there are no further general comments, we’d like to proceed with detail. One moment. Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have one small question under this area, and then two motions that I’d like to move. My question, Mr. Chairman, has to do with the waiving of…We’re still on page 9-17, right?

Yes, we are.

Okay. Thank you. My question has to do with the fees that the schools were charging to students which the Minister has, I believe, sent a directive asking the school boards not to levy those fees to aboriginal students. I understand the position of the aboriginal governments that this is a treaty right for the students to go to school and they shouldn’t be asked to pay, and that’s fine. I’m just wondering about the repercussion that may be in the school system that might have relied on this as extra funding for the school. I’m interested in knowing what the financial impact of that might be and whether there have been any requests by school boards to the department to make up for the loss in that revenue they’ve had for a long time. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, there have been no formal requests for the department to reimburse boards for those monies so far. I think it’s important to remember that there are only a few boards that actually charged fees. Most boards in the Northwest Territories did not charge any extra fees. We would be hard pressed to justify giving extra money to some and not to all.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I understand that those boards who were charging these fees have decided that they would not charge those fees to anyone at all, not just those who have been defined to be exempt. Does the Minister have any indication as to what the dollar figures were that school boards who were charging them were raising under this fee?

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Dent.

Mr. Chairman, I’m not aware. I think there were three boards in the Northwest Territories that were charging fees. I know that at the meeting with the board Chairs that at least one of the Chairs did mention a number, but I can’t remember what that amount was; I’m sorry.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wonder if the Minister could make a commitment to just look into that. I guess the schools will just have to raise the money in other ways and do more fundraising than they have done in the past. I think the money was usually used for school activities. If the Minister could make a commitment to get back to us with the figures, I would appreciate that. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Well, this isn’t a number that the boards have ever reported to us. Like I say, most boards did not charge any extra fees, so it’s not something that the Department of Education, Culture and Employment was ever involved in. We could write a letter requesting the amounts that they were getting, if the Member would like, and we can pass that on to her. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Ms. Lee.

Thank you. There is a motion on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion. Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’m not going to say a lot on this one. I think a lot has been spoken in support of what we are trying to achieve through this motion. I think it’s very clear from the debates this evening and early afternoon that there is strong support on this side of the floor to see that this very important program continues, and we would urge the government with this motion to find in their hearts and their passion and their commitment to find $1.2 million, please. I would ask for support for this motion from the Members. Thank you very much.

---Applause

Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’ll just be brief. As I see it, this program means a lot to the communities and to the culture of the communities. It seems like a shame that we would find money for three years through programs and transfers and then let the program dissolve in its own way and evaluate it after. It would only seem reasonable that evaluation would happen before we send it off into the sunset and say goodbye to this program. It seems alike a shame -- shame -- but I’d like to see that the government demonstrates some passion and leadership, which seems to be the theme today, by finding some money for this program. I’d like to ask for some compassion and consideration of those people who will feel the loss of this program. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. To the motion.

Question.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have another motion. I move that this committee recommends that a quantitative evaluation on grade extensions be undertaken to ensure that not only are our students accessing senior secondary schooling in their home communities, but moreover that they are graduating with the quality of education that allows them to be successful and competitive if and when they pursue post-secondary studies. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Question.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

---Applause

We’re on page 7-19, education and culture, operations expense, total operations expense of $134.837 million. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’ll just keep my comments brief. I think most of my colleagues here have gone over most of the things I would have mentioned. The question that I have is with regard to a new school in Yellowknife. I know the Minister is aware that there are definitely some problems in the schools in Yellowknife in terms of overcrowding and limited space. I know a school in my riding, Ecole St. Joseph School, has programs, Mr. Chairman, for special needs students that they’re running out of broom closets at the school, and I’ve observed that myself on a visit to the school. I know the enrolment at Weledeh has grown by 17 percent. There’s no space at St. Patrick High School, and even by the government’s own standards the need for a new school in Yellowknife is clearly identified. I’m just wondering, Mr. Chairman, where on the radar screen is a new school for Yellowknife. The community is growing. By most accounts, the population in Yellowknife is just over the 20,000 mark, and it seems to be growing. The vacancy rate is remaining low: 1.7 percent, even though there have been at last 400 new rental units brought onto the market in the last 18 months. I think it's time that the government took the situation seriously here in Yellowknife, that we do need a new school and we're going to need it in the very near future. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.