Debates of March 24, 2004 (day 7)

Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 74-15(3): Business Credit Corporation Loans Arrears

Yes, Mr. Speaker, to the Member's question, it is true. We try to do everything that we can to make sure we continue to support the business. Our goal is not to put people out of business, our goal is not to push these things into the legal process. I think it's important to remember though that the onus is on the client to ensure that there is an ongoing dialogue with our department. If the dialogue breaks down, then we really have no choice but to try to get the money back. These are public tax dollars. But I would say we leave almost no stone unturned before we move to legal recourse. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Supplementary To Question 74-15(3): Business Credit Corporation Loans Arrears

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the Minister for those answers. I am sure we, as a government, are indeed looking out for our small businesses. The next question is when someone is utilizing our credit facilities, like the BCC or the NWT Development Corporation, they are, of course, not thinking that they will get into trouble or find themselves in situations where they are unable to pay any loans. I'm just wondering if there's any type of counselling available or advice given to the clients beforehand that if you are in trouble, these are the steps that are going to take place and this is what we'll be looking for as a solution to any problems that we have. Thank you.

Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 74-15(3): Business Credit Corporation Loans Arrears

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We look at these on a case-by-case basis, and there is individual case management. I think that that's something important to remember. We recognize that the BCC is a lender of last resort. As such, it takes on loans of higher risk; loans that typically banks are not interested in. In some of our smallest communities where banks won't go, it is the only lender. We acknowledge that there's additional risk, but we don't go into these loans and don't go into working with clients assuming or thinking that the businesses won't work out or that they'll fail. We go in and expect to see the best efforts of all parties, and we make every effort to work with the clients and counsel them where necessary.

I know that our economic development officers in the communities do have discussions and lay out options for recovery plans. Sometimes businesses do go sideways through no fault of the loan applicant or the proprietor. Things can happen. At that point, when we sit down to talk about recovery plans, we lay out all the options for clients and we look at wind-up scenarios. Sometimes they include things like bankruptcy, but I think the point is that we don't get into these loans assuming that they won't work. We wouldn't lend money if we thought the business was going to fail. We know and acknowledge that there is risk and do try to work with the clients, but I think that you'll find that the BCC does a very good job in working in the communities to make sure people recognize all the options before them. We're not trying to push them into any of these options. I think what's best for the client is important and we'll work with them on that basis. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance regarding his statement to the House this afternoon. I don't know if Santa Claus is at the North Pole or in Ottawa in terms of the goodies and the good news that he has given to the Northwest Territories in the response from the federal Member of Parliament. In terms of the Minister's statement, I believe that the budget will contribute positively to the overall situation in the Northwest Territories. I want to ask the Minister if he could explain in plain language his belief on how this budget will contribute to the Northwest Territories.

Minister of Finance.

Return To Question 75-14(3): Impacts Of Federal Budget On Small NWT Communities

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess first and foremost would be how the federal budget has impacted us positively and we can pass that on to our constituents. Number one, most critical is that I will not have to come back in the June session with a negative $10 million supp which would mean cuts to programs.

---Applause

Mr. Speaker, that's the most critical and most important this year.

Going forward on the rest of the federal initiative, the money that they have identified for immunization will help our Department of Health and Social Services ensure that they have this money and that they will be able to deal with, for example, the scenario of immunization of meningitis that occurred here not too long ago.

In other areas, they've shortened the municipal infrastructure deal that they had in place. They had that deal over a 10-year period. It is now a five-year period, which means that all jurisdictions can draw down that money sooner rather than later. So that will have a positive spin-off effect to our communities. There is one catch on that, however. It is still matched dollars that we're going to have to match, so there are some limitations there, but in fact there are some of those positive spin-off effects that can happen for us.

Mr. Speaker, any work that happens in the Northwest Territories can benefit our contractors, whether those dollars are flowing through our departments or through the federal government departments. New dollars in the Northwest Territories mean work for our contracts. That can have a positive spin-off as well.

One of the critical areas that we've talked about and heard about in this House is the Mackenzie Valley development that's occurring around the pipeline, and the fact that the federal government is paying attention to that area and starting to highlight it in the budget. It's a small amount to start with. We're not sure how exactly it will flow, but as long as it's starting to flow, we can continue to work on that and try to improve on it. Thank you.

---Applause

Just recognizing the clock, the time has expired for oral questions, but I will allow Mr. Yakeleya his supplementary. Mr. Yakeleya.

Supplementary To Question 75-14(3): Impacts Of Federal Budget On Small NWT Communities

Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker. I will also recognize the clock, and I have one final question for the Minister of Finance. I appreciate that, in light of the good news of the budget from the federal government and the recent discussions that Senator Nick Sibbeston had on naming of the Northwest Territories, the resources that the federal government takes out of the Northwest Territories I really think we should call ourselves Robin Hood, because the federal government keeps robbing us. Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask a question with regard to sharing of the dollars in the Northwest Territories and what type of necessary steps you will take. There are lots of interested groups that are also going to look at these dollars that the federal Finance Minister announced yesterday. So I would like to ask what steps have you looked at in terms of sharing resources with other governments. Thank you.

Minister of Finance, Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 75-14(3): Impacts Of Federal Budget On Small NWT Communities

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First and foremost is the result of the exercise of not rebasing and that is $50 million. The biggest thing is keeping ourselves in a healthy state. So that's why we've identified this to go towards the deficit. We're not going to dig the hole that we're in any deeper.

---Applause

That will have positive spin-off effects going forward.

The other side of that is if we don't get the parties to the table to deal with royalty revenue sharing and get some real action happening around that table; as well, if the negotiations with federal Finance on the tax effort side do not work out as we're hoping we'll have them work out, as a government we're going to have to look at all options, all alternative revenue sources that are out there and look at how we, as residents of the Northwest Territories, can gain and benefit from the resources that are being extracted from the regions in the Northwest Territories. We're going to have to look at all options.

Right now, we're working with what we have and trying to come forward in small steps. This budget we're dealing with now is a stepping stone going forward. If we can do it right, come up with a balanced budget and have the federal government look at our arguments in a favourable way, we can definitely set up our future in a more positive way. Instead of having our children looking at debt, they can look at some sort of heritage going forward that would continue to be a positive benefit from the development in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a written question to the Honourable Brendan Bell, Minister responsible for WCB.

Please provide the following for the years 2002-2003 and 2003-2004, at the earliest opportunity:

WCB revenues, specifically the categories of assessments, average assessment rates, and investment revenues.

WCB expenses, specifically the categories of total number of claims, number of accepted claims, cost of claims, and administration with a separate categorization of salary included in the administration budget.

WCB profit and loss statements for the same period.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Earlier, one of our honourable Members pointed out a failing grade on the report card level, and I would like to take the opportunity for the Minister of Justice to redeem his report card implied level with this written question.

Would the Minister table in this House, in a timely manner, this government's position on a sex offender registry, and, further, note any work done to date in support of a national sex offender registry.

And finally, if the Minister would note this government's observations of any potential shortcomings that a future national sex offender registry has in comparison to the Ontario sex offender registry.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 7, written questions. Mr. Braden.

Reclamation Of Miramar Con Mine

Mr. Speaker, I have a written question for the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs.

In the Miramar Con Mine lease agreements, is there a specified reclamation standard which the leaseholder must achieve?

With these leases does the Minister have the ability to set or alter the standards of reclamation which the company must meet?

If these specified reclamation standards are not achieved by the leaseholder, what remedies are available to the Minister to have the necessary work carried out?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I have a return to a written question asked by Mr. Allen on March 16, 2004, regarding a bill of intent to seek provincial status.

The Government of the Northwest Territories and it partners in the Aboriginal Summit are currently involved in devolution negotiations with the Government of Canada that are expected to lead to the transfer of jurisdiction over lands, water and resources to the Government of the Northwest Territories. While the negotiations are aimed at the transfer to the GNWT of jurisdictions similar to those exercised by the provinces, it is not the government’s intent to seek provincial status at this time.

The GNWT believes that the current devolution negotiations provide the best opportunity for gaining greater control over lands and resources in the Northwest Territories. Similarly, a number of factors suggest that seeking provincehood at this time may not provide the powers and benefits that are currently beings sought through devolution negotiations.

Previous historical precedent demonstrates that attaining provincial status does not guarantee control over land, resources or resource revenues, as is currently being sought in devolution negotiations. The provinces of Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta were all created from parts of what was then the Northwest Territories. Although this occurred in 1870 for Manitoba and 1905 for Saskatchewan and Alberta, control over lands and resources was not transferred until the 1930s.

As a province, the Northwest Territories would no longer receive funding from Canada through a formula financing agreement, but would instead be subject to existing equalization arrangements. Equalization payments are based on the revenue-raising capacity of a province, but do not take into account the cost of providing government programs and services. Formula financing arrangements with the federal government do consider the higher costs of providing programs and services in the Northwest Territories and provide an expenditure base that gives our government more money on a per capita basis than it would likely receive through equalization.

In keeping with the spirit and intent of settled land claims and self-government agreements, as well as ongoing negotiations, the GNWT had chosen to work in partnership with aboriginal leaders to pursue expanded jurisdiction over lands, water and resources in the Northwest Territories through devolution negotiations.

The GNWT has worked hard to achieve consensus with its partners at the table and, with the recent signing of the devolution framework agreement, has made significant progress in our negotiations. We continue to believe that devolution offers the best possibility for the people of the Northwest Territories to gain control over their own lands and resources. We do not believe that there would be any additional benefit to be had by putting aside the success we have achieved to date through devolution negotiations to embark on a new process to seek provincial status. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wish to table a document which is an invitation to tender put out by the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, the Honourable Michael McLeod; a tender for 22 mobile homes in which it states that the Government of the Northwest Territories business incentive policy will not apply. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following document entitled, "Gwich'in and Inuvialuit Self-Government Agreement-in-Principle for the Beaufort-Delta Region." Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to table the following document entitled, “Action Plan To Strengthen Tuberculosis Management and Control in the NWT: Status Report, March 2004.” Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to call Committee of the Whole to order. The matters before us have already been read out by the Speaker and I don't think we need to read them again. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Allen.

Thank you, Madam Chair. The committee recommends that we review the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, and we review them until the conclusion of that department. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Agreed.

Agreed. Thank you. Shall we proceed with the opening remarks from the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment?

Agreed.

Agreed. Thank you. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Madam Chair. The main estimates we bring forward today total nearly $214 million. Overall, this represents an increase of $3.2 million, or 1.5 percent, in the departmental budget over last year's main estimates. It is, however, important to note that increases for schools, based on enrollment changes, have not yet been finalized and, as a result, are not reflected in these numbers.

This modest increase in the department's budget represents a balance of program reductions and reinvestments in key areas.

First, within the education and culture activity of the department, we are proposing to spend nearly $135 million. Spending in this area includes monies for early childhood development, schools, as well as cultural and heritage programs. I would like to highlight a few key activities.

For 2004-2005 we plan to spend $4.4 million on early childhood development activities. These activities help provide children with a healthy start in life and assist in preparing them for learning in our school system.

As Members are aware, the three-year early childhood development initiative ends at the end of this month. During the last three years the GNWT has funded a range of activities to support healthy development of children. An evaluation of the initiative is currently underway and should assist us in determining how to effectively invest any future funding in this area.

Schooling has been identified by most of the Members of the Assembly as being critical to the future development of the Northwest Territories. During the last two months, Members have told me they feel more must be done to keep children in school and to improve the results of the school system. During 2004-2005 we proposed to spend nearly $115 million in support of schooling.

Madam Chair, our education system has made a number of significant gains over the past 20 years. For example, more students are accessing senior secondary programs in their communities and more aboriginal students are graduating. In 1999, there were 81 aboriginal grads and in 2003 there were 113. There were 620 students enrolled in community high schools in 1998-99 and in 2003-04 there are 872.

During the coming year, ECE will be making a number of modifications to its accountability structure for schooling. For example, the department is preparing an aboriginal language and culture-based education directive that will be sent to all education authorities outlining program requirements and criteria for expenditure. The department is also working with education authorities to expand student assessment activities.

Madam Chair, during 2004-2005 we will continue to follow up on recommendations made in the last Assembly regarding official languages. In addition to federal funding of over $2.6 million, we proposed to spend $2.290 million on languages activities during the year. This includes an additional $100,000 to support the establishment of two language boards by July 1, 2004. The boards will provide me with advice on matters of importance to language communities. This will help determine the services we provide and initiatives that our government puts into place for the promotion, enhancement and revitalization of aboriginal languages.

Within advanced education and careers, the department is proposing to spend $72.428 million. Programs and services within this activity are focussed on ensuring that northerners have access to skills training and the post-secondary education needed to successfully participate in our expanding economy. The branch also supports career development activities to assist residents in expanding their careers and offers a range of income assistance programs ranging from student financial assistance to income support.

At the present time there are a number of job opportunities across the Northwest Territories. If northerners are to receive the greatest benefit from these jobs, they need to have the skills and knowledge necessary to successfully compete for opportunities. The skills of the workforce must be linked to the requirements of employers.

During the next fiscal year an expenditure of $7.7 million is proposed to support programming related to career and employment development as well as apprenticeships and occupational certification. Activities supported by this funding include: training on the job, stimulation of youth employment, the provision of career counselling and the continued work with employers in both the public and private sector to plan and deliver skills training.

In many cases, training to prepare northerners for work on NWT resource development projects must be planned and delivered in partnership with industry and aboriginal organizations. We remain committed to continuing to work closely with these organizations to plan, deliver and evaluate programming with a goal of ensuring that northerners benefit from relevant, high-quality and accredited training.

Madam Chair, during the next year we plan to continue to support our northern college system with an expenditure of $27.696 million. Aurora College has primary responsibility to provide training and adult basic education programs that will prepare students for jobs and productive activity in our communities. This year's main estimates include an additional investment of $880,000 to implement a bachelor's degree program for nurses. This will help ensure that we increase the supply of nurses to serve in our communities.

Madam Chair, during the 2004-2005 year the department will increase funding for student financial assistance by $825,000 to meet the needs of students participating in the program.

The GNWT also continues to provide a broad range of subsidies and services that address basic needs across the lifespan. To ensure these programs remain current, we have established an annual process for examining income support levels for food and personal care items. Current funding levels will allow us to continue meeting these needs.

Finally, Madam Chair, I would note that the capital acquisition plan for the fiscal year is valued at $9.681 million. Implementation of the projects identified in the plan will result in the completion of the Mildred Hall School renovations and the Aurora Campus Academic Building in Inuvik; continued renovations to the Prince of Wales Northern Heritage Centre and project activities to replace the Chief Albert Wright School in Tulita and to build the Ecole Boreale, the French first language school in Hay River. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. At this time I'm going to ask the Deputy Chair of the Standing Committee on Social Programs, Member for the Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya, to provide the committee's overview of the main estimates for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment. Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I would also like to let the committee know we are going to do this through teamwork, and my honourable colleague from Nunakput, Calvin Pokiak, will conclude the report.

The committee met on February 23rd, 2004, with the Minister and his officials to consider the 2003-2004 draft main estimates for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment.

The committee notes an estimated $213.705 million for operations expenses, an increase of $2.685 million over last year’s numbers and a total of $13.430 million for capital infrastructure for 2004-2005.

The committee is concerned with rising costs and diminishing adequacy of the current Aurora College facilities in Yellowknife. During the review of the draft main estimates the committee noted $145,000 forced growth due to increased lease costs for the Northern United Place, NUP, Aurora College Yellowknife Campus. The Minister clarified that the total increase to lease costs for this year are actually closer to $329,000. Members note the total lease costs for the Northern United Place campus are now $1.529 million. This does not include lease costs for off-campus facilities.

The committee is concerned costs are escalating for a facility known to have substantial shortcomings for college program delivery. The building has reached capacity and classroom space is already being rented off-campus. In addition, the NUP campus has no dedicated parking, insufficient student housing and the campus design provides limited opportunities for student interaction outside of the classroom setting. The Yellowknife Campus is the only Aurora College campus struggling to deliver programming in a facility that was not purpose built. The standing committee indicated a strong need to begin to look at options to address these problems.

During the review, the department commented that the NUP lease will expire in 2007 and they have begun to consider options. Committee Members were pleased to hear that the Minister had initiated a cost-benefit analysis of staying in the current location versus new construction. The committee supports a cost-benefit analysis and looks forward to seeing the results, possibly during the next business planning cycle.

The committee is concerned with the lack of vision that the department demonstrated for student housing at Aurora College campuses. Inadequate student housing is a problem for all three campuses and committee Members stress the need for a comprehensive plan to deal with the issue.

During the review the Minister explained that the decision had not yet been made whether to use the $2.272 million total capital allocation for the Green Apartments and the $2.314 million total capital allocation for the Brown Apartments in Fort Smith for a retrofit of the existing apartments or for construction of a completely new structure. The committee questioned if the plan to retrofit the Fort Smith apartments would be cost efficient. They noted that $446,000 had been allocated for work to begin as early as 2004-2005. Given the vagueness of the department’s plans, the committee was concerned that the start date for this project was too soon and recommended careful analysis prior to action.

The Minister assured committee Members of further consultation on this issue prior to the commencement of any work. The committee is receptive to this approach.

Over the last few years, Aurora College has implemented a number of excellent programs geared at students from across the Northwest Territories. Many have relocated to attend. Unfortunately, the department’s student housing initiatives have not been keeping pace with the growth of programs. As a result, housing needs for out-of- town students, particularly in Yellowknife and Inuvik, are not currently being met.

During the review of the NWT Housing Corporation draft main estimates the standing committee noted that a considerable number of out-of-town students were occupying social housing. Approximately 90 Aurora College students are currently occupying social housing and another 18 are on the waiting list. The concern is that student use has increased pressure on a program whose mandate is not to meet the needs of out-of-town students.

Student housing was an unresolved issue from the last Assembly and the committee sees no indication that Aurora College and the department are any closer to developing a comprehensive plan. Committee Members expressed considerable apprehension for what it sees as an ad hoc response to a crucial issue that warrants a carefully thought out strategy.

As the department and Aurora College had not yet finalized how they were going to deal with the issue, the committee got a commitment to be informed of further details as they unfold. The committee is giving the department the benefit of the doubt and has approved the $446,000 because they do need the planning money to advance the project.

The committee would like to see a proactive position from the Department of Education, Culture and Employment on the issue of residential school survivors and secondary victims. The committee stresses the need to actively look into possible funding opportunities from the federal government for the GNWT and to support individuals and organizations in accessing the available funding.

Committee Members would like to see the department’s efforts go beyond restitution to victims as directed by the Courts. Committee Members would like to see the department look for additional opportunities for involvement in assisting residents in accessing federal programs and dollars. The devastating impacts that the residential school system has had on families, language, culture and heritage are well known. Members of the committee hope that the department will keep this issue in mind and that it will be reflected in department goals and program delivery.

The committee is pleased to offer support for Education, Culture and Employment’s plans to rationalize income security programs. Committee Members commented that excessive “stove piping” and compartmentalization of the various components of income security result in unnecessary frustration among clients. The committee feels that a more integrated case-management style delivery model would increase the quality of service to clients. The need for life management skills counselling to be integrated into income security program delivery was emphasized.

During the review the Minister provided a brief historic overview of the decision made in 1994 to separate what was viewed as strictly clerical income support functions from the counselling aspects of the social services program. The rationale was that this would free up more time for social workers to provide counselling services. Unfortunately the counselling mandate appears to have fallen through the cracks. Income support recipients in need of life-skills counselling are not always receiving the services they require.

The committee favours a broad-based approach to the review of income security programs and emphasizes the need for cooperation among all government departments involved in income security and social services program delivery. The standing committee also advocates increased training of income support workers to better identify the needs of clients so as to better assist clients to help themselves. The committee looks forward to a full briefing on income support programs and a discussion paper on options for the rationalization of income security by June.

The Minister proposed substantial committee involvement during the examination of income security programs. The committee is receptive to this approach.

The Members of the standing committee are disappointed to note that the four-year Bachelor of Education degree program in the Northwest Territories will not go ahead as planned. Aurora College had anticipated beginning delivery of the fourth and final year of a Bachelor of Education degree at the Fort Smith campus starting in September of 2004.

The committee understands that current fiscal constraints have brought the Bachelor of Education degree as well as a number of other deserving programs to a standstill. However, committee Members are very supportive of the program and hope to see its implementation sometime in the near future.

Programs geared to training NWT residents to meet the NWT’s needs for professionals in areas such as teaching and health care have been proven successful. The Bachelor of Education degree program is a key component of the strategy for teacher recruitment and retention in NWT communities.

Madam Chair, at this time I would like to ask the Member for Nunakput, Calvin Pokiak, to continue with the report.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Pokiak.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

The Social Programs committee is very concerned with the sunset of parts of this very important initiative, particularly under the Department of Education, Culture and Employment. Anecdotal evidence has placed a very high value on the success of the language nest portion of this program as part of any successful early childhood development program, such as the aboriginal Head Start program.

There was general consensus between Members from both smaller and larger centres on the success of the program and the need to save it from being lost because of the failure to ensure ongoing funding. It was also recognized that the infrastructure is in place to continue this program, but there is a danger of losing this infrastructure if the program is allowed to lapse for any significant period of time. There was no advance evaluation done by the department on the success of the early childhood development programs affected by the sunset of the applicable funding.

The Committee Pointed Out That In A Direct And Tangible Way, Language Nests Deliver Many Aspects Of Education, Culture And Employment’s Departmental Goals: better beginnings for children; support and resources for community involvement in the education process; and the promotion of aboriginal language and culture.

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak. At this time I would like to ask if the Minister would like to bring in witnesses.

Yes, please, Madam Chair.