Debates of March 29, 2004 (day 10)

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Are they all standing contract agreements or are they subject to renewal as of April 1st? Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, for example, if you take contract services for devolution, then there is $245,000 in 2004-05. That includes $100,000 for a negotiator, $50,000 for an individual who is doing some background research for us, and there’s another $95,000 for two companies who are doing some other research and communications work for us. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think we are familiar with the tendering process for more tangible things like 22 mobile homes or firefighting services or something like that, but do these kinds of contracts, consultants, have to go through the same process as those capital projects? Is there some sort of mechanism within each department or each division as to what the guidelines or parameters of each contract is, and is there a requirement for an open contract process? Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, a lot of the services are already services that are engaged in the department. Very often the kinds of services we require in the ministry are based on particular expertise that the individual might have. In this case, we are proposing to continue on with the same companies or individuals, that have been used in the past. If there is a need for additional or other services, then I want to look at putting those through a regular process. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Did the Minister imply that these were negotiated contracts?

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, yes, I believe in some cases they were negotiated. For example, if we need expertise as a negotiator from outside on devolution, let’s say, then we wouldn’t have a tender call for that. We would look for someone who has that particular expertise. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Minister, can you explain to me why we need negotiators, why that fee would not be included under the compensation and benefits portion? If we need negotiators ongoing and we create agreements where we don’t go out to tender, we almost sound like we are hiring employees, but not hiring employees. Could the Minister explain the difference?

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, if someone is on salary with us, as regular staff, then they will be included in compensation benefits. If they are someone who is on a limited term contract for a specific purpose or on an ongoing contract for some purpose, then they would be under contracts. So we differentiate based on the status of the individual. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Minister, for your answer, and thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, if the Minister could further explain what we get for $100,000 as a term negotiator as in time, how long they work with the department, and what we get for a $50,000 research contract. I'm just trying to clear this up as in why. Is $100,000 slated to pay a negotiator for a year, and is $50,000 kind of slated around a program to pay a researcher for a year? I'm just curious in us finding new avenues to have excluded negotiated contracts, when either they should be employed within the service or you should be going to public contracts. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In the two examples the Member refers to; first of all, the $100,000 for negotiator is for an individual who is on contract to negotiate on our behalf on devolution. That is the amount for his fee and travel for a year. I expect that if things go well, that that contract will continue until we complete devolution negotiations in 2005. The other one of $50,000 is for an individual who we had on contract to determine the true A-base cost of the programs and services that DIAND is offering that are being negotiated through the devolution resource revenue sharing process. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Chairman, would the Minister be so kind as to provide me some feeling on tenure service, how long these individuals have had these types of contracts? Has this been an ongoing contract for a number of years that ends in 2005 predictably as pointed out? Can you elaborate on the term that these nice contracts have been out there, because I haven't seen them in the government posting of contracts. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, first of all, the negotiator on devolution we have had on contract for a year-and-half or two years now. It was at the same time, as you may recall, the federal government contracted David Pederson to negotiate for the federal government. I expect our negotiator on devolution will be with us until we complete the devolution negotiations which are scheduled for 2005. This one would appear in the list of contacts for the government. I'm not sure the exact name, but it would be in that list. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If the Minister could be so kind in pointing it out, he did say he wasn't sure; I'm not sure either. I would appreciate if the Minister could point that out with the title. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, it would either be in Hal Gerein or Hal Gerein and Associates or a company that he has under some name, I'm not sure. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wasn't really concerned about the actual name of the individual, more so under which line item I would find it under, if the Minister could point that out.

Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, we will find the exact place, but it would be under contract services. It's included in the $1.634 million. I gave the break out on it. I don't think there's any one item that shows up with that particular cost as an isolated item. It's in other expenses.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. I believe that appears in the blue contract book, Mr. Hawkins, that the Minister speaks of. Go ahead, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If the Minister could elaborate what we get for $95,000 out of this $245,000 breakdown. We pay $100,000 for someone to negotiate on our behalf; $50,000 we pay for someone to do research. If you could elaborate on what the $95,000 gives the territorial government for service. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, I will have Mr. Warren give more detail if you want, but it is the advice on a national devolution strategy and communications related to that. Mr. Chairman, if the Member wants more detail, I'll ask Mr. Warren.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Hawkins, do you wish to request more information?

(microphone turned off)

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Warren.

Mr. Chairman, thank you. Basically we have a couple of contracts. This is what we spent money on in the past, but not necessarily exactly with the same companies. But it's seen that within the devolution work, it's necessary for us to have an overall communications strategy on our overall approach to how we're getting out the message that the Northwest Territories should be the controller of its own resources, and that there's value to not just the Northwest Territories but value to the rest of Canada in our resource revenue and doing a devolution deal. In order to promote that approach, we need to promote it more than just in the Northwest Territories. Well, this strategy would include a Northwest Territories strategy, and also one that is on the national stage and that can be heard by the other provinces, the other Premiers, and the other First Ministers. So we have contracted with a couple of companies to help us develop an overall strategy for providing communication on a national stage about the values of devolution and resource revenue sharing in the Northwest Territories. I think a lot of that has been seen throughout the press over the last year.

Thank you, Mr. Warren. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Mr. Warren, for your comments. How long has this group or function held this $95,000 negotiated contract? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, they were contracted last year, and right now it's ongoing. I can't predict how long it will continue, possibly for a full year.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you. Did the Minister say we've done a negotiated contract for one more year? Has it not gone out to tender so they will fall under the breadth of a two-year program?

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, it's an ongoing contract that we would have to terminate when we no longer need the services. So there is new contracting happening.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think I'll just finish with this section in the sense to get an answer maybe. What type of advertisement did the MAA proceed to get some of these individuals who negotiate, who research, who provide advice, our value for devolution? What type of arm's reach did our territorial government go out to get these folks, and why didn't we continue them from before if these positions have been existing for some time, and maybe if the Minister could reference if they had been in existence for some time. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.