Debates of March 29, 2004 (day 10)

Page 2-28, lease commitments, infrastructure, information item.

Agreed.

We will go now back to page 2-11, program summary of executive offices, operations expense, total operations expense, $13.750 million.

Agreed.

Now we will go back to page 2-5, Executive, department summary, operations expense, total operations expense, $49.590 million.

Agreed.

Agreed. Does the committee agree that the Department of the Executive is concluded?

Agreed.

I would like to take a second to say thank you, Mr. Minister, Ms. Snider and Mr. Bird. Thank you for your attendance. Thank you, committee. We will just give the Minister and his witnesses a couple of seconds to pack up.

Thank you, committee. What is the wish of committee? Mr. Allen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The committee recommends that we review the Legislative Assembly main estimates.

Does the committee agree?

Agreed.

I will have a show of hands, those in agreement? Those opposed to reviewing the Legislative Assembly this evening, raise your hand. Those opposed? Six to two. I see we are going to proceed with the Legislative Assembly review this evening. We will now take a supper break and resume this at approximately quarter to seven. Thank you.

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I will call the committee back to order. At this time, I would like to call on the Honourable David Krutko to make his opening remarks.

Madam Chair, colleagues, I am pleased to present the 2004-05 main estimates for the Legislative Assembly on behalf of your Board of Management.

The proposed operating expenses for the Legislative Assembly in 2004-05 are $14.963 million. This represents an increase of just over three percent over the previous year’s operating expenses. The draft main estimates also include a capital item of $215,000 for upgrade and replacement of the camera and sound systems for this Chamber.

Madam Chair, the first full year in the term of a new Legislative Assembly is always unique in terms of budgeting. This is partly because it is followed by the last year of the previous Assembly’s term. Because of the election period, last year was only a partial year for budget purposes. The estimates for 2004-05 include a return to full year budgeting for the Assembly and the sunset of a number of election and transition-related expenses.

Last year, a number of special committees established by the 14th Legislative Assembly also completed their respective mandates, namely the special committees on self-government and the sunset clause, official languages and non-tax-based communities.

The sunsetting of funding for these special committees combined with the resulting changes to the mandate of the Office of the Languages Commissioner have allowed the Assembly to reduce its non-discretionary travel costs by approximately $175,000 or 46 percent compared to 2002-03 levels. This reduction is consistent with the reductions other government departments are making to their travel budgets.

Madam Chair, in addition to the reductions noted above, the Legislative Assembly’s estimates include an umber of additional cost-savings measures. Most notably, as a result of the work of the Special Committee on the Review of Official Languages, the reduced role and mandate of the Commissioner of Official Languages will result in a reduction of the budget for that office by $150,000 per year. There is a $100,000 reduction that has been transferred to the Department of Education, Culture and Employment to fund the operation of two new language boards established by the 14th Legislative Assembly. Additionally, the elimination of the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight’s coordinator position will reduce that committee’s budget by approximately $50,000.

It is important to note that the appropriations of the Legislative Assembly provide funding to a number of statutory officers of the Assembly. As in past years, these include the Conflict of interest Commissioner, the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Commissioner, the Chief Electoral Officer and the Languages Commissioner. In 2004-05, we will see the establishment and implementation of two additional statutory bodies, the Human Rights Commission and the Equal Pay Commissioner. The implementation of the NWT Human Rights Act this summer will be an historic and much anticipated event. The Legislative Assembly’s appropriation for this year includes annual contribution to the Human Rights Commission in the amount of $630,000. This contribution will allow the commissioner to fulfill the mandate at arm’s length from the Legislative Assembly. Similarly, $175,000 in new funding is also included to fund the operation of the Equal Pay Commissioner.

In terms of forced growth expenditures, the Legislative Assembly is subject to the same inflationary pressures as other government departments. There is $145,000 in additional funding required this year to cover negotiated increases to compensation and benefits. In addition, the cost of providing Hansard services to the Assembly will increase by $75,000 as a result of more active standing committee schedules.

Earlier this month, the Board of Management adopted a cultural enhancement strategy for the Legislative Assembly. This strategy was initiated by the 14th Legislative Assembly in an effort to make the Legislative Assembly more reflective of all the cultures and traditions of the Northwest Territories. The total cost of implementing this strategy over 10 years is $1 million. In recognition of the current fiscal reality, only $20,000 has been allocated to this initiative for 2004-05. At the very least, this funding will allow us to start down the road of enhancing the cultural richness of this important institution.

Mr. Chair, the current Board of Management of the Legislative Assembly has only been in place for approximately four months. In that short amount of time, however, I, as Chair of the board, have witnessed a real commitment to both providing effective and responsive service to Members and the public at large while at the same time exercising fiscal responsibilities and prudence. The estimates before you today provide the financial and human resource necessary to meet the needs of the Legislative Assembly and allow it to carry out its essential mandate.

On behalf of the Board of Management, I look forward to any comments or questions you may have. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. At this time, would you like to bring in any witnesses?

Yes, Mr. Chairman.

Does the committee agree?

Agreed.

Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort in the witnesses.

For the record, Mr. Speaker, would you please introduce your witnesses?

To my left, I have Myles Moreside, director of corporate services; and, to my right, I have the Clerk of the House.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. General comments. Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I don’t have general comments, per se, but I do want to ask our new Speaker on some of the things I was talking about in the last Assembly. I remember at the end of the last Assembly in the late hours here as the former Clerk of the Legislative Assembly, Mr. Hamilton, was ready to retire I raised questions about the fact that it was good timing as we were going through a big renewal because Mr. Hamilton was here for so long and provided great service. I did raise a question about what kind of a succession plan the Legislative Assembly has in terms of balancing out the representation of the Clerk’s office more, so that we have more aboriginal and women representation in table officers and the Clerk’s office. I don’t mean to in any way lessen the value of the incumbents. I value the service we get from them, but I am talking about the long-term view. I believe when people turn on the TV it matters what they see and how we reflect to the rest of the NWT. I do believe the former Speaker made a commitment to address that issue. I know that this is an issue that Mr. Speaker was very strong about and worked on in his life as an MLA.

I would like to ask the Speaker about whether or not he’s had a chance to address his mind to some of these issues and what he sees in what he can do in his life as a Speaker to improve the situation. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With regard to the succession plan that Ms. Lee is talking about, the previous Board of Management directed the Clerk to present the document to the Board of Management within six months of the establishment of the 15th Assembly. So the Clerk will be presenting such a document within the next six months to the Board of Management for us to review. We are working to get that item concluded and also have a document presented to the Board of Management for us to look at to see where we are going in the next term of this Assembly.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank you for that answer. I would look forward to hearing more about that from the Board of Management whenever they are ready to present to us. I do appreciate the work that the Board of Management does. It is very tough work, but I know they are working very hard at it.

Mr. Chairman, I have another question on the second paragraph of the opening statement of the Speaker. It is with regard to the budget item for upgrading and replacing the camera and sound system…I have a question not specifically on that, but in terms of the lighting we have in this building. I don’t know what sort of work we have done the last one or two years, not inside but outside. In times of budget restraint and budget cuts that we are experiencing the fact that this building is lit up 24 hours a day like a beacon of hope…Beacon of hope. I thought it was beacon of oak. In all seriousness, people have commented to me about how bright this building is to the sky and all night long. I would like to get another explanation from the department and the Speaker about what made it necessary for us to have that work done and why is it important for the whole building to be lit up 24 hours a day during the winter days. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Speaker.

With regard to the lighting on the exterior of the building, that is part of the security upgrading that took place in the previous Assembly to the tune of $280,000 to improve the lighting on the exterior of the building, so the security people could see what is happening on the outside of the building. I think that was one of the reasons that they have the system in place. The lights do operate on a sensor that allows them to go off when twilight reaches a certain level and when it starts getting dark. So it isn’t on 24 hours a day. It is on for those periods of time. It was implemented as part of the security measures like most legislatures across the country and also what has happened with regard to security in general because of 9-11. We, as a legislature, are not immune to that. We do have to take some action. It was part of the security plan for the Legislative Assembly during the 14th Legislative Assembly.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The last question on the lighting situation, I can understand the need to have cameras and lights around the building in case someone wants to trespass or break into our offices or something. I can see that. But why do they need to have the roof lit up? What is the security situation there? Are we afraid of someone intruding from above?

Thank you. Mr. Speaker.

If someone wants to get into the building, they can get in from the outside and that includes the roof. If someone wanted to make their way into the building, they can find their way from the exterior of the building which also includes the roof. I think this is part of the security system we do have and this is something that was acceptable to the 14th Assembly and they felt they had to implement this as part of the security measures. As you know we do spend a lot of money on security and I think it’s one more means of enhancing the security of the building. We can’t spend more money in the area of getting more bodies out there, but if there are ways that we can use cameras and other ways of lighting so that it makes it so much more by the people we do have in our security operation are able to track what is going on outside the building, but also being able to carry out their responsibility in the building. So it is part of the overall security system by enhancing the lighting outside the building, so that our cameras can pick up what’s going on outside.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. May I just remind the committee that we are dealing with the 2004-05 budget, so can we stick to the relevant items on the budget?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I accept your advice. I would like to know whether or not there is any increase in utility bills from last year’s budget to this year’s budget. Not utility, but power bills, whatever it costs to light the building. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I believe there is a cost associated with having that extra lighting, but I think I will have to get back to the Member with that information. I don’t think we have it right now to get down to that type of detail. We will have to get that information for the Member and I will present it to her when we do have it on hand.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mrs. Groenewegen.

I have a few general comments with respect to the budget of the Legislative Assembly. On the issue of the lighting that Ms. Lee referred to, I think it’s already a foregone conclusion that we spent a lot of money on this building. I had my reservation about it when the money was first expended and when we were first making plans for a building of this nature. But I do think the lighting does enhance the very high priced architecture of this building. It was supposed to look like an igloo. With the lighting, it does look really nice. If we were going to spend all that money on a building that looked like this, we might as well highlight it.

One issue that I want to bring up was, when we talk about capital improvements around this building, as I said, it’s a very nice building. I have visited a lot of legislatures in my work as committee Chair and I have toured a lot of other Legislative Assemblies in Canada. Certainly, we have a very nice facility here. One thing that is very sadly lacking here is parking. I wanted to comment on an incident which happened here the day that our Finance Minister invited many people to a reception to celebrate the presentation of his first budget. Literally, by the time you put all the people who work in this building, those of us who have offices here, put them in the parking lot, there are no other parking spaces available. So we invite all these people here, we should put on the bottom of all our invitations, take a cab, because there is no place to park. Whilst we were in here, hearing the news of our Finance Minister’s budget, security was having vehicles towed away out front. I know that was an intervention that they took which is their job and I’m not criticizing them for that, but I just think it’s sad to have a $25 million or $30 million building and no place to park. We’ve got the Great Hall so people can hold functions here, but if we’re here -- those of us who work in this building are here -- there is no place to park whatsoever. I think we seriously need to look at that.

We have put quite an effort into preserving the natural vegetation around this building, which is admirable, but if we don’t have a place to park, it kind of diminishes the usefulness of the building, as far as I’m concerned. So I think parking is something I would like to have looked at. I know there have been lots of little upgrades of extra parking stalls here and there for contractors and different things like that, but even if we take a chunk of that circular area out there and turn it into parking I think we need to consider that.

One other thing that I would like to comment on is -- and maybe this is something that needs to be done internally or by some kind of payroll deduction or something -- when our most recently departed Speaker, Mr. Whitford, left the Assembly we have no policy or procedure on recognizing those people. Now upstairs in our hallway there, going down to the Ministers’ corridor, there are portraits of former Speakers. I just find that it's left to happenstance of chance whether or not people holding some of these positions get thanked or recognized in any way. I understand when our Clerk departed it was an initiative of the staff to thank and recognize him, but then when one of us amongst us has served in a capacity like that and can depart here with not even a tea party or anything costly or otherwise…The reason why I make a point of this is I think we need a policy on this. If it’s a Members’ payroll deduction or something like that, that’s fine. But we need to be a little bit more conscious of some of those kinds of protocols. I still think something should be done for the former Speaker and I certainly will be willing to participate in that if we can find the right time and date to do that.

One of the things I was curious about, too, is that in the 13th Assembly when we all first arrived here we passed a motion in the House with respect to any Members' or Ministers' indemnities allowances including entertainment that would include the cost of alcohol. We had passed a motion in the 13th Assembly that would not allow government functions at government expense to include the purchase of alcohol. I don’t know if that policy, now two assemblies later, is still in place or not. It’s one that I supported. I mean, if we have an event and we want to have a cash bar, no problem, but I am just only concerned specifically with taxpayers' money being used to entertain people, entertain ourselves when it comes to the use of alcohol. I think it was for a reason that we made that motion because it made a statement and I think we’re all capable of picking up that tab.

I guess that’s about all I wanted to comment on. Specifically I’d like to know if there are any plans in the works for additional parking around this building. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, in regard to the different points raised by the Member, it is true that we do have a major parking problem, but I think it’s because of the lack of parking and we also have to live up to city bylaws with respect to the fire code not being violated by way of parking on the road where vehicles cannot pass. I think that’s one of the biggest reasons that vehicles have been towed. I believe we do have to do something with the parking at the Legislative Assembly and one of the ways we’re looking into that is through the new cultural enhancement program through the Legislative Assembly, where I mentioned that over the next 10 years we’re looking at $1 million. One of those initiatives will also look at the exterior of the building, including parking as one of those areas. Because the report has been adopted by the 15th Assembly Board of Management, now we have something to work with. I think it’s something that we should deal with sooner rather than later and bring something back to this House to find a way to improve the parking at this Legislative Assembly. Hopefully, through the review of that document and the Board of Management, that’s one area we can look at. In the budget for this year there are no dollars for that, but I think that’s something we can look at as a possible supplementary budget item because it is dealing with fire code violations. I think we do have to find a way to get around that because we have had a lot of vehicles towed because the bylaw officers are enforcing fire code violations to ensure the fire trucks are able to get through. I think that’s one of the biggest reasons vehicles have been towed. I think it’s important that we look at that.

…(inaudible)…go outside of the Chamber and talk.

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So in regard to the parking thing, I think it’s something that has to be looked at and I think we should bring something back by way of the supplementary budget. The Board of Management should seriously look at this matter because it has caused a lot of people who come to the Legislative Assembly for various events and activities and find out their vehicles are getting towed. It doesn’t say much for attracting people to the Legislative Assembly and making use of the Assembly. I think that’s something we do have to look at and I think that’s something that will be recommended to the Board of Management to look at the cultural enhancement program, which is part of that study.

With regard to the other issue that was raised by the Member about recognition of service of Members of this Legislative Assembly, not only the Speaker or Premier or other officials. I think in other jurisdictions across Canada they do have service awards for Members of the Legislative Assembly with respect to 15-year service awards, et cetera. The Government of the Northwest Territories does have service awards which they give to long-term employees and I think that’s something that we have to look at as the Legislative Assembly for people that have served their time in the Legislative Assembly by way of being a Member, a Minister, a Speaker. I think that’s something that we should consider accepting, because that is accepted in other departments within the government for the long-term service awards. I think that’s something that we have to consider by way of recognition of a Member’s years of service. Like we all know, you do put a lot of time into years of service, and at the end of the day you had to give up a lot to provide that service. I think we should, as a legislature, look at implementing such an activity by way of recognition of years of service for Members of the Legislative Assembly and Ministers and Premiers.

With respect to the other issue about the alcohol policy, this legislature does abide by that policy and it is still in place. The policy stands as a policy of the Legislative Assembly. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I also wanted to just comment on a couple of the programs that take place here related to youth. I just wanted to speak in favour of the Youth Parliament that is held. I think it is an extremely valuable program, as is the paging program. I would like to see that continue. We have many young people come back and report on just how exciting they find being in this building and working in this building and how informative and how it gets them interested in politics. After having been here they do follow along more often with what goes on here and so on. There was a youth parliament where a young man from Hay River came here and served and ultimately went on to be Page in the Canadian Senate. We saw him when we were down there from the Northwest Territories. His interest in that job was as a result of work that he had done here in the legislature. I think it’s a very valuable program. I think it’s something that we should continue, if not perhaps consider enhancing. The more people we can get involved in our process here the more valuable this is as a public government that people can feel they can participate in some way. I think that’s all I’m going to have to say for now. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’d like to thank the Member for that. I think it’s important that we as a legislature and the Legislative Assembly do more to not only promote the Legislative Assembly, but find ways of enhancing the political structure of the legislature and the Government of the Northwest Territories through other means. Youth Parliament is one means, but we also have to look at curriculum development so it can be presented in the schools. Also ensuring that we do have some sort of documentation that a lot of people haven’t been able to have an opportunity to see what goes on in this legislature, but also understand the makeup of the consensus government. The young man that you mentioned from Hay River, his last name is Unka. He started in this legislature as a Page, he attended the Youth Parliament and now he’s a Page in the Senate of Canada attending University of Ottawa studying political science. I think that’s the type of effort we have to find ways of promoting, not only to our youth, but also people in the Northwest Territories, that you can achieve your goals. It doesn’t mean you have to be a politician at the end of the day, but there is a career that is out there with regard to the area of political science and the political field. One of the things I can consider is working with the Department of Education, Culture and Employment to start promoting these things in the schools so that students can take a course that looks at the social and cultural makeup of the Northwest Territories, as well as the political makeup of the Northwest Territories and how the Legislative Assembly works. That’s something that I think we have to look at and I’d like to thank the Member for the question.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Just a further comment in support of what the honourable Member for Range Lake was talking about with regard to the cultural enhancements strategy. I feel the same way, that our workforce should reflect the people that we work for. We do have a thing called a management access program. Perhaps I’ll suggest to the Speaker that we should have something like a Legislative Assembly work program where we can bring in employees from the government to see what the workplace is like over here. I can appreciate the difficulties in recruiting in the general workforce, per se. Just a suggestion to the Speaker. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Speaker.