Debates of March 30, 2004 (day 11)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you, Mr. Minister. In light of that, can the Minister inform this House and instruct the majority of the authorities of the mental health and drug and alcohol workers in terms of the expectations of having these workers secured in place in this initiative, in terms of security in their positions and their roles from now on with the GNWT? Thank you.

Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 116-15(3): Reclassification Of Mental Health, Drug And Alcohol Workers

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the intent of this initiative was to at long last recognize the work that was being done by the alcohol and drug workers, who for many of these years have laboured often in isolation. We got the positions reclassified, we had money added to the budget, and the issue now is would they become employees where they could get the benefits, they could also get the benefit of the supervision and support for training. The intent here is to continue to provide this service in all of our communities. The issue is to work out the arrangements with the various communities. The preference would be that in fact the employees would agree to come under the authorities, however, that is an issue that we have agreed to discuss with the communities on a case-by-case basis. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Supplementary To Question 116-15(3): Reclassification Of Mental Health, Drug And Alcohol Workers

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I understand the importance of the drug and alcohol and mental health workers as I was one of those people who were in that field. In terms of initiating a new program -- and I applaud the Minister for taking on this initiative and providing some level of comfort for the drug and alcohol and mental health workers -- March 31st is just around the corner, in terms of them securing some level of comfort in terms of them opting into the new initiative. I would like to ask the Minister what level of comfort can he give the mental health workers, the social workers, or the drug and alcohol workers that their employment will continue? Thank you.

Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 116-15(3): Reclassification Of Mental Health, Drug And Alcohol Workers

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The comfort we can give the alcohol and drug workers and the mental health workers is the fact that we have invested a considerable amount of money. We have taken the time to work with the communities and the authorities to get a reclassification done that recognizes the value of the work they do. With the appropriate classification, we have raised the pay so they would have the benefit of job security, the benefit of having some qualified clinical supervision, ongoing training, and that commitment is there. It is in the budget, it is in the business plan, and we want to work out the details in those communities where there are still questions. Thank you.

Final supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Supplementary To Question 116-15(3): Reclassification Of Mental Health, Drug And Alcohol Workers

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you, Mr. Minister. Can he instruct his department in the communities that need to work out some of the case-by-case details in terms of informing the mental health workers, or the drug and alcohol workers -- because it might be a week or two before they have their final details to secure them into these new positions -- that these workers will continue on with their employment and the detail will be worked out to secure them in their positions? Thank you.

Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 116-15(3): Reclassification Of Mental Health, Drug And Alcohol Workers

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would be happy to commit and reassure the workers and those staff or employees that may be out there listening that the intention is not to put anybody out of a job April 1st, that we want to work with the communities. There may be some transition time required, and we want to be sensitive to that. This is supposed to be a good news story. The intent here is not to get into a conflict situation with communities or staff, but to work through the questions and to work through the process. We have done that in the majority of cases, and those cases where we haven’t we will work extra hard with the involved communities and authorities to resolve the issues to hopefully everyone’s satisfaction. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I want to ask the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation about the issue of the housing units that will be going into Deninu Kue and these other communities in the NWT. On the question of affordable housing versus maximum benefits in relation to this whole tendering process and the BIP and what not, my question really has nothing to do with the business incentive policy, although the community does welcome the opportunity to have a little bit of employment in that market and in getting site preparation and that stuff done for these units. I really want to caution the Member when talking about affordable housing, because usually when you talk about affordable housing you have to really look at quality housing.

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I would rather see some quality units going into the communities, and the people that build these units are using nails instead of staples, which happens in a lot of southern units that come up north, and are put together with a lot of staples in the units as opposed to nails.

Hear, Hear.

I am wondering what measures and contract obligations that these southern firms would have to ensure that these units will last at least two to five years, and that this portable housing will not have to be replaced by some more affordable housing in the short term. Mr. Speaker, thank you.

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Two questions, Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, Mr. McLeod.

Return To Question 117-15(6): Quality Housing Versus Affordable Housing

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we demand the same quality, the same warranty conditions whether the contract is allocated to a southern supplier or a northern supplier. I am sure there are many owners or trailer owners or mobile home owners in different trailer courts in the NWT that would be very interested to hear that the houses that they are living in and are perfectly happy with are substandard, as the Member has indicated. These units meet a certain standard, they have to have CSE approval and we expect at least a 20 plus year life out of them. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Supplementary To Question 117-15(6): Quality Housing Versus Affordable Housing

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just to realize what the Member was eluding to that many people in the NWT live in trailer units, Mr. Speaker, I am well aware of that. But a lot of these trailer units are older units and they are put together by very big nails. The newer units are usually a little more cost effective and, therefore, they are put together with three-quarter inch staples. I wanted to ask the Minister about the affordable housing crisis that he is addressing, and the communities that these affordable housing units will be accommodating to probably professionals that have full-time employment in these communities, which in my case are very few. What kind of affordable housing will these people have an opportunity to purchase, probably at a high rate with no real market in place? How would the government assure that these people are getting value for their dollar? Thank you.

---Applause

Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 117-15(6): Quality Housing Versus Affordable Housing

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as the Member has indicated, there are some units going into communities. There is a high need especially in the community of Fort Resolution. We are planning to put in five this year, and providing everything goes this year, from the report and Cabinet’s direction, we would look to next year for more units. The community has come forward, the DEA Chair, and also the LHO president has come to Yellowknife to meet specifically on this issue. They are indicating to me that what we are allocating is not near enough for what they require. They have situations in Fort Resolution where they have three or four teachers and nurses staying together who are total strangers, and have to live in the same accommodations. We are also hearing that in some cases we’ve had reports from some members there who are moving eight to nine times in one year because of inadequate housing. So it is a real challenge to meet all of the demand that is out there. I also want to point out -- I think there was a reference that all this money would be going south -- 17 tenders were picked up. Also, as part of this contract, only a portion of this is for trailers, the rest is for setup. About 50 percent is for setup and we are looking at accommodating, as part of this project, stairs, skirting, the mechanical hook up, the electrical hook up, the land costs, land development, driveways, gravel pads, and all of those things have to be provided locally. So there is more than just going out and dialling a number in the south, and sending a…(inaudible)…there, as somebody referenced. They are trying to make an attempt to bring these units in as cheaply as possible and, at the same time, we are trying to balance with some of the investments staying in the North. Thank you.

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Final supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Supplementary To Question 117-15(6): Quality Housing Versus Affordable Housing

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have to concur with the honourable Member to the point that there is definite need in the community. Just to get back to the accommodations set up in the community, I know that there are a lot of professionals that are all living in one unit. That is probably due to the fact that they are probably in a social housing unit, and with the rent scale they have in place one person in each unit can never afford the amount of rent. I wanted to ask the honourable Minister that when these professionals start moving out of the social housing units that were for social clients in these communities, will the department take a review of the rent scale system that currently discourages any incentive for people to seek full-time employment? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I will have to rule that question out of order, it is a whole new question. It has nothing to do with your original question. The question is out of order.

---Ruled Out of Order

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in follow up to the Member for Tu Nedhe’s questions about these units that the government is proposing to put into the communities, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Villeneuve was in the property assessment business for a long time, and I am sure he knows a little bit about this as well. But in terms of our investment as a government, could the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation tell me if he is aware of the life expectancy for mobile units? When buildings are appraised they have a normal lifespan. How would the life expectancy of a mobile unit compare to a stick built northern modular home? Thank you.

---Applause

Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, Mr. McLeod.

Return To Question 118-15(3): Mobile Homes Versus Stick Built Homes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would have to seek the information. We were expecting these trailer units to last for the term that we have amortized, and for years longer than that, and that is a 20-year period. I don’t have any estimations to refer to, I don’t have that information in front of me. So I don’t know, I can’t say in any certainty. Our amortization and full cost recovery is based on a 20-year period, I can offer that much. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 118-15(3): Mobile Homes Versus Stick Built Homes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, is the Minister aware that mobile home units depreciate in value at a much faster rate than a stick built home? Thank you.

---Applause

Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 118-15(3): Mobile Homes Versus Stick Built Homes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would have to guess, but I would say yes. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 118-15(3): Mobile Homes Versus Stick Built Homes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, would the Minister also concur that normally construction technique for mobile units would be different than that used in a normal stick built construction? Thank you.

Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation. Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 118-15(3): Mobile Homes Versus Stick Built Homes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I couldn’t say to a great certainty that it is different. We are having a number of developers interested in coming forward. First of all, the facility has to be mobile so that we can move it, however, for the rest of it there are some interesting concepts and designs being put forward that would allow us to build these units fairly close to what a normal stick built house would be, smaller and 16 feet wide, but it would also be mobile. So I think the concept that they are totally different, the building construction methods are different, and I think we are moving away from that considerably and it is coming closer to being one and the same. Thank you.

Final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 118-15(3): Mobile Homes Versus Stick Built Homes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, that is an interesting amount of detail for a tender that went out with no specifications. Mr. Speaker, I think it would be safe for the Minister to assume that the construction technique is somewhat different for mobile home units. I am responding to this because of the response to Mr. Villeneuve. It kind of suggested that somehow mobile homes are substandard. They are not substandard, but they are different. Life expectancy on a mobile home could be half of that of a normal stick built home, and that is just an industry knowledge that is understood. For example, the ability to insure mobile homes is quite different than stick built homes. So it goes to that point, and I just hope that all of these, and I had asked the Minister, if all of these variables have been considered in terms of investing taxpayers' dollars in these quick-fix market units. We may say they are cheaper than going with the stick built technique, but I want to know if the Minister has considered all of those things, the shorter life expectancy, the higher maintenance, the higher insurance costs, all of these other things. Thank you.

Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation. Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 118-15(3): Mobile Homes Versus Stick Built Homes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yes we have made a lot of estimations on these units. We recognize they are not the same as a house. That is something that I didn’t mean to indicate, that they are one and the same. There was a reference made that they are substandard for accommodations and that is the point that I was trying to make, that many people are residing in mobile homes across the North and they take pride in these units. We have looked at and realize that there are cost factors, and that is one of the reasons that we’ve gone to a mobile home. They may be a little bit more expensive to heat, and the lifespan is different. We recognize those things and we’ve taken those things into consideration. However, it is our goal to provide housing in the communities, as we have said many times, to respond to the public outcry in the Deh Cho, the Beaufort-Delta, the Sahtu, Nahendeh, and this is what we are putting forward. Thank you.

Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Allen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just received a letter from the Inuvik alcohol committee with regard to Turning Point. I just want to ask the Minister of Health and Social Services if he can give this House an update as to the status of Turning Point as it relates to the alcohol and drug program, as well as the facility for the homeless. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If I could ask the Member to repeat the last part of the question, I didn’t catch it as he was sitting down. Thank you. I’ll get my earpiece out here.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’ll rephrase my question and put it in one sentence. Would the Minister update this Assembly on the status of the Turning Point facilities that relate to his alcohol and drug programs and how it will affect the issue of homelessness in Inuvik? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Return To Question 119-15(3): Status Of Turning Point Facilities In Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my understanding is that as of today they are still operational and will continue to provide the services they do in both areas referenced by my colleague. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Allen.

Supplementary To Question 119-15(3): Status Of Turning Point Facilities In Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m going to make reference to the letter. They indicate that their funding to provide the essential services under the alcohol and drug program, as well as to help facilitate the issue of homelessness, has been withdrawn. I’m just going to ask the Minister if he would make a commitment to provide a detailed response to myself so I can convey that to the committee in Inuvik? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.