Debates of March 31, 2004 (day 12)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In my statement today I addressed the area of the Liquor Licensing Board so my questions are for the Minister of Finance who has responsibility for that area. I contrasted a statement by the Minister in which -- I’m paraphrasing here -- he indicated that it’s difficult for the board to go into social aspects in expanding its mandate. Yet a judge of our court indicated that considerations, which focus on public safety and public peace that are consistent within the purpose of the Liquor Act and the intention of the legislature. My question for the Minister, Mr. Roland, is can the Minister explain the discrepancy between his views on the matter and that of the judiciary? Thank you.

Minister responsible for the Liquor Licensing Board, Mr. Roland.

Return To Question 120-15(3): A New Liquor Act For The Northwest Territories

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I think in responding to that question we should look at more than just one very small section of what was stated in that ruling. In fact, there’s an area that refers to the enactment of the Liquor Act as an exercise of the legislature of its authority to make laws in relation to property and civil rights and also in relation to intoxicants. There are a number of factors there. By the language of the act in section 6(2) and section 13 in particular, the legislature intended to give broad discretion to the Liquor Licensing Board, section 6.2(2) subject to this act, the board shall control (a) the conduct of licence holders; (b) the management of equipment of licensed premises; and, (c) the conditions under which liquor may be sold or consumed on licensed premises. This is coming from the actual ruling that was made. I don’t think I differ from what’s been there and, in fact, how the board would carry out and conduct its affairs that would have an impact on the public safety of individuals in the Northwest Territories.

My comments to the media are more when you look at the other aspects of social conditions in the Northwest Territories, when it comes to our concerns as we’ve heard raised many times in this Assembly from the Minister of Health and Social Services and the cost that it has on our system and the lives of the people in the Northwest Territories, how far do we go as a quasi-judicial board into the area of social response or morale, in a sense? How do we legislate that? How do we control that? They do play a role and it’s an important role and I support them in that initiative. They’ve been tough on a number of recent rulings and I met with them and said it’s within their authority. If they want to make their rulings harder and harsher, as long as they’re being consistent across the board that was okay with me. I met with them and discussed that issue and then said if they had concerns about other areas I’d be glad to meet with them and discuss those concerns.

We should be clear that I don’t see myself as differing from the judicial aspect of the role. The concern that I have is, as a quasi-judicial board, if they in fact go beyond their mandate -- which was also laid down in the report from the judge -- into the socialism and into advocacy, then we have some blurring of the lines. So we have to be careful there. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 120-15(3): A New Liquor Act For The Northwest Territories

Thank you. This, indeed, is the kind of discussion that is useful to the whole topic, but it is one that I think really needs to be broadly expanded, Mr. Speaker, if we’re going to sit here and debate the fine points of a mandate and judicial ruling, we could be here for a long time and not address what really is at issue here. That is the cost in human terms of the abuse and mismanagement of alcohol. So at least in consideration of the environment we’re in today, what steps will the Minister take to endorse our Liquor Licensing Board’s new and more proactive approach to enforcing our laws? Thank you.

Minister responsible for the Liquor Licensing Board, Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 120-15(3): A New Liquor Act For The Northwest Territories

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I stated, I did meet with the Liquor Licensing Board here in Yellowknife a number of weeks ago and discussed a number of things such as mandate, goals, a number of their concerns over who has authority over the budget, how things were working, communications. I said I gladly open the door to having a good, healthy working relationship. It caught me by surprise that the letter indicated the resignation of the chairperson.

As well, Mr. Speaker, I think we will be proactive. Number one, the Department of Finance has the Liquor Act under our authority and we’re intending to move forward with some work in that area and looking possibly at a rewrite of the act. There’s work going on there. We need to go further and clarify what actual roles and responsibilities will be for enforcement and how the board would look at itself. Again, the bigger broader picture is can that act and the Liquor Licensing Board deal with the full gamut of the social responsibility that we would have as a government? I think we’re again going into a different area.

This Assembly, as a whole, can set a direction and a policy and try to work to that area through Health and Social Services, through Education, Culture and Employment, but can we combine that all into one act and one board, that being the Liquor Licensing Board? Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 120-15(3): A New Liquor Act For The Northwest Territories

Mr. Speaker, the information that the Minister is providing just doesn’t jibe with what I heard from Mr. Simpson. Again, in the conversation I had with him this morning, in the aspect of seeking assistance from the department he said that he or we, the board, felt like we were high school kids going and asking for help to get a few things done like building a Web site, more training for their own people, training for bar staff and wait staff, continually denied at the administrative and bureaucratic level. So where the Minister says we’ll support you, in reality that is just not the case as I’ve heard from Mr. Simpson. Can the Minister explain that discrepancy?

Minister responsible for the Liquor Licensing Board, Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 120-15(3): A New Liquor Act For The Northwest Territories

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Through this whole process -- and the media term as to the harshness of the rulings that were made -- I’ve stayed out of the picture, because they are a quasi-judicial board told to do things. They have an act to follow. They’ve done that and I haven’t interfered with that process. I did state, when I met with the Liquor Licensing Board, that if there were concerns to please work through me and I will initiate a process. If there are concerns around enforcement, I will work with the Minister of Justice to try and do that. Is there an education factor? I will work with one of the other Ministers that can help support that initiative. If it’s from within, we’ll do that.

Mr. Speaker, in my initial meeting with the chairperson of the day, Mr. Simpson, and again with the board, there were a number of issues we discussed. I didn’t have red flags thrown my way to say here are critical issues that are not working. I did hear and have seen some e-mails about some frustration dealing with department officials. Mr. Speaker, again, we have to look at what authorities we have and how far we can go. If there were those concerns and they were that drastic, then I would have liked to have heard from them personally in a one-on-one instead of going about this route that we have now seen. I don’t think it’s appropriate that we air out this concern in a public way where it’s aimed at one or two individuals within a department or even to the board itself. I would have much more appreciated the fact that we could have sat down, discussed the issues and I could have sort of set a course of action in place and tried to work it out that way.

I still think there are some valid points made and we’re going to work to improving that but, Mr. Speaker, there’s obviously quite a difference from what the Member has raised to me here and what I’ve heard in the media than the letter I received from the individual. So there’s very different messaging going on there and that is somewhat disappointing. Thank you.

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Final supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 120-15(3): A New Liquor Act For The Northwest Territories

Thank you. You know, the Minister is right in that if we get into a sort of he said/she said discussion here, we’re not going to help the issue. I would like to use my last question to ask on a go-forward basis. Will the Minister commit to bringing a new Liquor Act forward and to do so in time for consideration and passage by this Assembly? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister responsible for the Liquor Licensing Board, Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 120-15(3): A New Liquor Act For The Northwest Territories

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it is a high priority for the Department of Finance. We’ve highlighted that, brought it forward as we begin our legislative planning process. So it is a high priority for us and I intend to do the work necessary to bring it forward and try to have that dealt with in the lifetime of this Assembly. As the Member stated, this is a very old act, there has been some work done on it in the past. It is a high priority and we intend to move it forward as best we can. Thank you.

Just to remind Members that we only have 60 minutes for oral questions. In 11 minutes we’ve only gone through one question. I have a lot of people on my list, so if we could get to the point when you ask the question, and in your responses answer the question to the point of the question being asked.

----Applause