Debates of March 4, 2005 (day 49)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would ask the Minister if he would also give an update regarding Colville Lake. I understand Colville Lake school is not slated until 2007-08. They don’t have any running water there in the school. The recreation facility/storage room in Colville Lake is also the same room as their washroom. What can the Minister do in terms of telling the people in Colville Lake when they can expect to have a decent school with running water and a proper washroom?

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. I would just like to remind Members that their oral questions are supposed to stay on one topic. However, I will allow the Minister to respond. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 544-15(3): Status Of Schools In The Sahtu Region

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I can tell the Member that Education is working with Municipal and Community Affairs to try to schedule the addition of water to the school at the same time that MACA works with the community to get water treatment into that community. So we are hoping that the planning will be this year and we will be able to move fairly quickly by next year to address the water issue and to address the space issue. There needs to be an addition to accommodate the high school in particular in that community. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, earlier in the week, I brought forward a concern about the arrears process with the Housing Corporation and the fact that there isn’t consistency in the policy. The Minister clearly stated that if you were in public housing and you had arrears, they would make a plan so that you could pay back those arrears, so you wouldn’t be kicked out. I was trying to put the spotlight on the issue that if you had arrears and you aren’t in social housing but you qualify for social housing…If you qualify for social housing and you can only pay market rate, it’s going to put you in a pickle to pay those arrears back.

Would the Minister be willing to look at this policy to make sure, for those people who qualify for social housing and have arrears but are not in social housing, that there is a consistent policy on how we collect our arrears? This question does not ignore those arrears. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, Mr. Krutko.

Return To Question 545-15(3): Review Of Social Housing Policy For Arrears

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The policy is clear that if you were a former tenant and were evicted for not paying your rent and you do have arrears, the way you get back into social housing is you have to pay your arrears or attempt to pay those arrears, so you can get back on the waiting list to get back into social housing. You have to realize that in most of our local housing authorities, there is a waiting list to try to get into housing. To be fair, those people who have been evicted for not paying their rent, there is a process for them to get back on but the key is they have to pay down those arrears before they will be put on that list to get back into housing. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 545-15(3): Review Of Social Housing Policy For Arrears

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am still very concerned with this issue because I feel we are discriminating against those who are in most need. We are discriminating against them because they owe some money. I want them to pay the money back, but if they are prime candidates for social housing, they obviously are not prime candidates for market rent. Mr. Speaker, if they can’t pay market rent and we are forcing them to pay market rent, how are we ever going to get our arrears back? It’s perplexing. It’s like trying to push a rope. We are not going to get the money back. What we need is a clear, consistent…

Your question, Mr. Hawkins.

That being said, would the Minister investigate a policy where we do not discriminate against people? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 545-15(3): Review Of Social Housing Policy For Arrears

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we have to realize that we have to be fair to all tenants. We can’t have a loophole for one group of tenants. You were evicted for a reason. There is a reason that you got kicked out of housing. In order to get back into public housing, you can’t skip the queue by jumping in front of the line. We have people on waiting lists who want to get into public housing who are in just as much need as the person who got kicked out. If you didn’t have a problem the first time, you wouldn’t have been evicted. There is a way to get people back into social housing or public housing and that is to pay off those arrears and then they will be put back on the list. Then they will have the opportunity to get back into public housing.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 545-15(3): Review Of Social Housing Policy For Arrears

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We are still missing the point on this issue, Mr. Speaker. I have a constituent out there who is in public housing right now. I can tell you if he wasn’t in public housing, his arrears as they were a few months ago, which were $2,000 or $3,000…This is a single guy with four kids and I can’t imagine him paying market rent forever. When he qualifies for public housing, he wouldn’t get in on this system. So how would he be able to afford to get into public housing if he has to pay his arrears? I think the policy is truly discriminating…

Mr. Hawkins, do you have a question?

Mr. Speaker, I do. Is the Minister willing to talk about this to make sure that this policy is consistent, fair and doesn’t discriminate against people?

I didn’t hear a question there, Mr. Hawkins. It was more or less a statement. Did you want to rephrase that, Mr. Hawkins?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Would this Minister look into that? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 545-15(3): Review Of Social Housing Policy For Arrears

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to sit down with the Member and work with the person he’s talking about and see if there is a way we can work it through. You talk about being fair, but you have to realize that people presently are trying to get the opportunity to get into public housing. We have people on the waiting list who are trying to get in, but the people who were already there, were evicted and now are trying to find a way to get back in. The whole idea is to be fair to all tenants, regardless of whether they are on a waiting list. There are ways to work it out, but the key is you have to pay down those rental arrears to be able to get back into public housing. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Your final, short supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 545-15(3): Review Of Social Housing Policy For Arrears

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s not a question of not being fair. No one is suggesting that anyone needs to jump ahead of the queue. There is a priority system that they go forward with. We can’t even get them on the list to get them in the priority system. So, Mr. Speaker, that’s the question I need the Minister to answer. Will he look at the system to make sure we can get them on that list? If they are in desperate need, they need to be on that list. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 545-15(3): Review Of Social Housing Policy For Arrears

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, again, we have been getting direction from this House to do a better job on our collections and we are doing that by ensuring that people with arrears work out arrangements and have a payback plan with the local authority to pay off those arrears. For those individuals who have been evicted from public housing, it’s clear; if you want to get back into public housing, you have to pay down those arrears before you will be put back on the list.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have some more questions for the Minister of Transportation. I think the Minister and Cabinet are going to think I took the palmistry course at Aurora College, but honestly I am not a fortune teller and I didn’t know the Minister was going to be tabling the 2004 report later today.

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I wanted to ask the Minister today for an update on where the Department of Transportation is at with the City of Yellowknife in getting the Kam Lake access road into the industrial park further along. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Minister of Transportation, Mr. McLeod.

Return To Question 546-15(3): Update On Kam Lake Access Road

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I guess you could say we are not much further along than the last time the Member asked this question. We’ve had some discussion with the city. The city has, along with our Department of Transportation, agreed that we should be drafting and signing a memorandum of understanding. The city has taken the time to put its first draft together. We are at the stage where we are now reviewing the document. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions this morning are for Mr. Bell, as the Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, and they relate to the recently-tabled document, a management plan for the Bathurst Caribou herd. Mr. Speaker, I wanted to ask the Minister where this plan goes from here. It is phrased in here as a recommendation of the planning committee. The question that I have for the Minister, Mr. Speaker, is what obligation is on the department to adopt this recommended plan? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. The honourable Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Bell.

Return To Question 547-15(3): Adoption Of Plan To Manage Bathurst Caribou Herd

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We are going to sit down now and talk to the planning committee that put this document together about the next steps forward in terms of public consultation. Obviously we have had many discussions. The groups involved with the planning committee are those charged with management of the herd, but there are many more stakeholders who have an interest in the management of caribou and need to be consulted. We need to have that discussion with them prior to anything taking place in terms of changes to the plan or, as I have indicated before, adoption of the plan. None of that will take place until we’ve had discussions in consultation with stakeholders. Only then, if there is some agreement amongst those stakeholders about how we move forward, are we discussing options at that point. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 547-15(3): Adoption Of Plan To Manage Bathurst Caribou Herd

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am pleased to hear about the public and stakeholder response. I think one of the things that is reasonably standard and conventional with this kind of thing is a peer review at the scientific and the professional level. Will this plan be subjected to that kind of scrutiny? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 547-15(3): Adoption Of Plan To Manage Bathurst Caribou Herd

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Maybe the Member can provide me with more clarification by what he means by peer review. As we go out to consult with stakeholders, many, through that consultation, will have a chance to weigh in on the recommendations, discuss the potential ethicality, or lack thereof, as they see it, of some of some of the options. If he’s referring to technical experts, academics, scientists or other hunters, I am not exactly sure. But there will be a broad-based consultation on this and I think that’s what the Member is looking for. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 547-15(3): Adoption Of Plan To Manage Bathurst Caribou Herd

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister has pretty much outlined the area that I had in my questioning; that is, technical professionals in wildlife management from other jurisdictions. I can certainly confirm that that is where I would like this to go. Mr. Speaker, a particular stakeholder concern has been with those commercial stakeholders, including outfitters, who are potentially put into a very tenuous position with some of these recommendations, one of which has seen them put out of business if herds get to a dangerously low level. Mr. Speaker, would implementation of this plan include backup plans or default plans or assistance for these commercial organizations if, indeed, they have faced a shutdown? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 547-15(3): Adoption Of Plan To Manage Bathurst Caribou Herd

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We haven’t had any of that type of discussion because we are really not there yet. I want to give the assurance to everybody out there listening, we are not talking at this point about a reduction in tags. So I think it’s premature to start talking about what we do if the industry fails. We are not there. I want to give that assurance. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Final supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 547-15(3): Adoption Of Plan To Manage Bathurst Caribou Herd

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Could the Minister provide some information about when he anticipates this public and stakeholder consultation will proceed and when we may see some finalization? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 547-15(3): Adoption Of Plan To Manage Bathurst Caribou Herd

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. RWED has agreed to organize this consultative process, which should, we think, with current timelines, culminate in a forum to be held in May of this year. At that point, we will have solicited public input and feedback. The planning committee has asked for that feedback to happen by the end of April. So we think in May we can provide that, have that forum in May of 2005 and then have a discussion around what we do next. If the report is not already posted on the web site, it will be very shortly so that everyone can have easy access even if they are from outside the jurisdiction. Only at that point will we be discussing harvest levels and having some more information in terms of the strength of the herd and the monitoring we’ve been doing. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to continue talking about the concerns of arrears with my favourite Housing Minister, the Honourable David Krutko. Mr. Speaker, if a person in market housing is being kicked out because they can’t afford to live there anymore, and obviously they owe arrears because that is what we are talking about, and they owe arrears so they can’t be put on the list, as the Minister clearly says, then where do they go if they are being kicked out of market housing and they can’t get on the list for social housing? Where do they go? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, Mr. Krutko.

Return To Question 548-15(3): Qualifications For Public Housing

Mr. Speaker, if the tenant is in public housing and they have arrears, they know, if they have been given an eviction notice, that they have six to eight weeks to respond to that notice. In between that time, they can go to the local housing authority and work out a payback plan where they commit themselves to pay back their arrears over a period of time through an arrangement they work out with the authority. If they commit themselves to that arrangement, and they pay on the time they say they are going to pay, they can remain there. But if they break that agreement and they do not continue to pay and the arrears continue to go up, they would have to go through the eviction process. If they are already there, there is a process that can work them through their arrears payback plan. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 548-15(3): Qualifications For Public Housing