Debates of March 8, 2005 (day 51)

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Final supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 567-15(3): Mental Health Resources

Mr. Speaker, I’m wondering if the Minister would perhaps even broaden that to include the whole of the Mental Health Act. It is a sizable piece of legislation and given that some…I know there are many of these larger pieces of work that really are carried over from one term to another, they will take more than the years that we have left in this Assembly. Would the Minister take a serious look at investigating and modernizing the whole Mental Health Act? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 567-15(3): Mental Health Resources

Mr. Speaker, very clearly we have an intent to modernize and redo the Mental Health Act, it’s just that it’s not on the top five or six pieces of legislation that we have on our agenda that we have left in the life of this Assembly. Very clearly, it’s one of about 26 pieces of legislation that we have that is out of date and needs to be fixed. At this point, a decision was made where I looked at the pressing priorities to focus on two major pieces, which are the Pharmacy Act and the Public Health Act, in addition to the tobacco and the other personal directives one. We’re not arguing that it needs to be done; it’s just a question of capacity, timing and sequencing. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister responsible for the FMBS, the Honourable Floyd Roland, with regard to the affirmative action policy that the new human resource amalgamation is planning on eliminating, I guess, out of the new human resource plan. I just wanted to ask the Minister a question about the establishment of the Affirmative Action Advisory Committee when the affirmative action policy was put into place in the early ‘90s. I just want to ask the Minister, if this committee still exists, what input into this new human resource organization is this Affirmative Action Advisory Committee going to have? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. The honourable Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board Secretariat, Mr. Roland.

Return To Question 568-15(3): Affirmative Action Policy

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the affirmative action policy will not be eliminated. What we are doing is looking at its structure and incorporating it into the new organization and how we would carry on business as the Government of the Northwest Territories. Just to be clear and on the record, affirmative action is still an issue that we’re dealing with and looking at how we can carry it forward. If it has the same title or a different title, that’s something to be decided.

On the committee the Member spoke about, that has not been in operation for quite some time, so the work we’re doing is going to be from in-house and then going to Members initially. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Supplementary To Question 568-15(3): Affirmative Action Policy

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess just with respect to the committee that hasn’t been in operation for some time, I guess, that could be one of the reasons leading up to the demise of the whole affirmative action policy in the government. I think it’s because this committee hasn’t been established, it hasn’t had any input, it hasn’t had any feedback, and it was set up as a monitoring system for the affirmative action policy and that hasn’t happened and it hasn’t panned out to what people have expected it to pan out to be. I guess the new name the Minister was referring to with the new affirmative action policy and the new human resource amalgamation would be to something along the lines of a succession planning program, which, to me, is the same as the MAP that this government has and is currently lacking in a lot of indigenous aboriginals that are participating in that program; one in nine employees to be precise, Mr. Speaker. I just want to ask the Minister if the affirmative action policy wasn’t part of the criteria for the MAP and that education is paramount in anybody advancing in the government in their employment status. That I agree with to some degree, but how much weight can somebody put on their experience in government? Some people have 20 years and they’ve trained people for three years…

What is your question, Mr. Villeneuve?

…and the MAP, one of the criteria is that you…

Do you have a question, Mr. Villeneuve?

I just want to ask the Minister what reassurances can he give aboriginal government employees that their experience, and in some cases lack of education, is not going to be the only determining factor in their advancement in management positions? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 568-15(3): Affirmative Action Policy

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we should be clear again that the affirmative action policy is not dead. This government is still committed to it. It is still part of our hiring practices. The specific area of succession planning and so on, they are pieces of what we’re going to put together and improve on as the Government of the Northwest Territories through our corporate human resource service centres. With the ability, once we have the staff together, working together and having the support of their colleagues, and with the same interpretation of the rules that we operate by, we will be able to improve on the way we deliver human resource services to our employees.

On the specifics of the MAP program, there is some concern there. We’re working to try to improve that area. Initially people can nominate themselves, put themselves forward for it, and it can be from all sectors, from communities, regions, headquarters staff. As well, they can be nominated by someone else from within the government and put their name forward. Once their names are in, they go through a process and an assessment. That assessment goes on your ability to get the job done. So whether it’s a formal education or an informal education, your experience all comes into play. It’s an assessment of where you are in your work history. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Short supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Supplementary To Question 568-15(3): Affirmative Action Policy

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess with the MAP program, the lack of aboriginal participation in that program, I know that people are nominated and they can nominate themselves, but a lot of people are putting forward their names, but they’re just not getting fair consideration, as far as they’re concerned, Mr. Speaker. On a few occasions people have applied twice. I notice they’re on the second round of the program implementation, and still they’re being turned down. These people are long-term government employees with lots of experience. They know in their own mind they can do the management position duties and responsibilities that are asked of them, but the people who are doing the assessment on them are the same people who aren’t really big advocates of this whole affirmative action policy, Mr. Speaker. So you’re kind of caught between a rock and hard place because human resources is the judge, jury and executioner…

What is your question? Do you have a question, Mr. Villeneuve?

I want to ask the Minister, when people are applying for this MAP, how can he be sure that they are going to get a fair assessment and a fair hearing and a fair interview with the people that are carrying out the program? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 568-15(3): Affirmative Action Policy

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I’d have to take exception with the Member stating that we have employees out there who are not committed to the policies that we have in place. If there are examples of that, if there’s proof of that besides accusations of employees not following the rules, then definitely bring them forward to me and I will work to address them. We have a policy in place. We need to follow those policies. We know there are some problems with the one management program that we have in place. In fact, we’re trying to, as we go forward, incorporate it into the work around affirmative action and see how we can in fact bring people up from the communities and regions. Right now it’s sort of targeted towards headquarters. People from the regions can apply, but one of their considerations is they’d have to move to headquarters. So we’re looking to try to expand it so that there’s a regional component of that. Once they move up in that system and move up in their ability to get that job done then they can move on to the next stage. There are bits and pieces. We understand there’s a problem; we recognize that and we’re going to work to change and fix that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Short supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Supplementary To Question 568-15(3): Affirmative Action Policy

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the Minister for acknowledging that they do recognize that there is a problem with that policy and there’s a problem with implementation of the policy and that’s been happening for the last 10 years that this policy has been in place. I guess I just wanted to -- going back to the people in the MAP-- this MAP is a Management Assignment Program and management in this government…

Mr. Villeneuve, do you have a final question?

…people in management positions. With this upcoming MAP, one…

Mr. Villeneuve, do you have a question?

How is this MAP supposed to improve the aboriginal representation in management when there are no aboriginals in it?

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 568-15(3): Affirmative Action Policy

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Management Assignment Program that’s in place, or MAP as we call it, was developed to try to move from within the existing workforce of the Government of the Northwest Territories; people who would have the ability to move up and take on the higher level positions and hopefully, with a succession plan, a person can come all the way up and take over a deputy minister position. That’s sort of the long term of things. When it was put in place, it was again there for everybody in the Government of the Northwest Territories. It wasn’t specifically designed for aboriginal people. It was for the whole of the government workforce. It’s something that’s been there. We recognize that we’ve got a problem when you look at the numbers, the statistics at headquarters and the managerial positions. We recognize that’s an area and we’re going to have to work on improving that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wasn’t going to ask any questions today, but then somebody reminded me about the courthouse, so I have to just jump on that bandwagon here for a minute. Mr. Speaker, when we perform our duties as a government and as a Legislature we take some great pride in saying that we consult with aboriginal governments, thus things like the Circle of Northern Leaders. When we talk about our capital planning process we also take some great pride in the consultation that takes place around that; protection of people, protection of assets, all those good things. Mr. Speaker, my question today to the government side is how much consultation is the government going to do prior to proceeding with spending about an entire year’s worth of capital on one project, given the devolution and self-government negotiations which are ongoing? Because it’s kind of undoable once it’s done. It’s kind of like the North Slave Correctional Centre; once it’s there in order to be utilized it’s going to attract a certain amount of jobs and programs and so on. I’d like to know what the government’s position is on that in terms of other governments in the Northwest Territories, in terms of consultation. Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Minister of Justice, Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 569-15(3): Future Of Territorial Court System

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The function of the courts is not expected to change significantly in the future. There will still be a need for courts and for their operations. The unfortunate fact is that we don’t expect that the amount they are using will go down. There isn’t much you can do about not providing the space. Right now we don’t have adequate space. One way or the other we’re going to have to provide it. So we have consulted with Public Works and Services and have been advised that there are two choices: either rent more space or build new space. The advice from Public Works and Services is that the most economic way to deal with the current shortage of space is to build space. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 569-15(3): Future Of Territorial Court System

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Justice makes it sound like this $41 million expenditure is not debatable and that there are no other options or alternatives to be considered. With respect to looking at the future of justice and the delivery of justice in the Northwest Territories, how much of that is there any flexibility in with respect to what will be devolved to aboriginal governments? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 569-15(3): Future Of Territorial Court System

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In a democratic system, as the Member is aware, the courts are an independent leg of the governance process. So we have the government, the Assembly and the courts. It’s a responsibility of the government to support the courts with adequate fiscal resources to conduct their business and adequate physical space to conduct their business. So we are going to follow through on that requirement. Mr. Speaker, when Public Works and Services did their assessment, they advised us that the net present value of leasing equivalent space in the Territories was in the order of $60 million and the net present value of building was in the area of $40 million. So we’re convinced this is the most economic way to provide the space that is required. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 569-15(3): Future Of Territorial Court System

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I think that adequate is the operative word here and that’s the thing we need to think about is adequacy. We, as Members of the Legislature, have had information shared with us with respect to this business case that can attempt to be made on behalf of this courthouse, but there hasn’t been much communication out there in the public. So even though we’re only spending $1 million, $1 million is still a lot of money on an engineering study and I think the communications should have preceded any expenditure by this government. I’d like to know where we are at with communications. Otherwise there’s going to be a huge backlash on this project. Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 569-15(3): Future Of Territorial Court System

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On all of the capital projects we have there is a similar amount of consultation, whether it’s a school or hospital or the courts. When you’re talking about building projects, we have a similar amount of consultation. We have been pressured by the courts for many years to respond to their needs and this is something that we have to do. It has been proposed by governments prior to this one. Two governments prior to this one have announced that they were going to put the money for a courthouse in the capital plan, but did not follow through on those commitments, and this government is now following through. Since 1997 we’ve been approached by Chief Justice Halifax, Justice Richard and Justice Fraser, who have directed that we need to do something about their space requirements. Mr. Speaker, we are following through on that.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 569-15(3): Future Of Territorial Court System

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m sure that Justice Richard and Justice Halifax will like to know and read Hansard today and find out that they’re responsible for the new courthouse at $41 million just like the previous Justice Ministers were all rhymed off yesterday in terms of taking responsibility for some of this. Before the $1 million is spent, what tangible consultation is going to take place? Can the Minister commit to today, Mr. Speaker? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 569-15(3): Future Of Territorial Court System

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There will be the planning process that will involve the architects, typical of any capital project that’s going forward in the Northwest Territories, whether it’s a school or a hospital. Will there be a consultation process? It’s not intended to go out and consult all across the Northwest Territories for what the building will look like, no more than was done for this building. The process is one that we will try and do economically, which means we will find out from studies what space is needed and how to best accommodate that in the most economic fashion. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development and go back to my Member’s statement. I just have to correct myself, firstly. I mentioned the fact that it was $90 million over three years; in fact it’s over five years, which equates to about $6 million per territory per year. I’m wondering if the Minister is aware of how somebody might go about applying for receiving funding under this northern economic development money that was announced last year in the throne speech in Ottawa. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Bell.

Return To Question 570-15(3): Federal Economic Development Funding

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The fund the Member is referring to, we’ve had discussion with DIAND about the money and how it will flow. We’re encouraging DIAND to quickly determine what criteria will be used to evaluate proposals that come forward. We have had a lot of people in the territory interested in discussion how they might access some of this money. At this point we’re referring people to DIAND. They are controlling the money and determining how the program will be rolled out. We don’t have that detail yet. We’re hoping to get it soon and it’s certainly something on my list to speak to Minister Andy Scott about when he visits next week. I have had previous discussions with both Minister Scott and Minister Blondin-Andrew and urged them to move quickly to roll this money out. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.