Debates of March 9, 2005 (day 52)

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, with this plan that’s been put in place we feel that is enough money to carry us through the duration of this first phase. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Braden. Thank you. Community health programs, not previously authorized, $681,000. Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have questions about absolute homelessness. Could I ask the Minister if this absolute homelessness covers situations like the ones that Centre for Northern Families are experiencing or situations that the centre has been advocating about, which is that the families on low-cost housing or in public housing could get evicted for whatever reason and then they have debt or outstanding balance or something and then they can’t…so they get evicted out of public housing and then they’re not funded for any more than $32 to get into the private market, which effectively makes them completely homeless. Is that the kind of families who could qualify for this kind of program? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, once again, for that detail on absolute homelessness to relative homelessness, I go to Mr. Miltenberger, please.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the money that was allocated, some went to fund additional beds at the Centre for Northern Families, as well as the Salvation Army, to get us over the winter months.

The Member raises an interesting conundrum, as it were, or dilemma that we have as a government. As she has indicated, for whatever reasons, families can be without housing because they are in arrears or they have been evicted. Then it has become a homelessness or child welfare issue. So we have some short-term funding to get us over the winter in Yellowknife with northern families in the Salvation Army. The longer-term plan is to sort how we do business as a government, so that we are coordinated as a government in dealing with this complex issue. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Ms. Lee.

I don’t think I got the answer as to whether those kinds of families are able to get some assistance under this program. Maybe I could ask in another way. Under this program, the money you have allocated here, can the families or whoever are absolutely homeless, do they have to go to the Centre for Northern Families or Salvation Army? Is that the only way they can access this help? Under this program, does the government or department or whoever is delivering the program, do they rent private space in private apartments if there is overflow of people who are in need or do we just book so many bed nights at these centres? I just want to know how this actually gets implemented and how the people get served. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Miltenberger.

Mr. Chairman, in Yellowknife, extra funding has been provided to fund 20 additional beds, 10 at the Centre for Northern Families and 10 at the Salvation Army. This is for individuals and/or families for the winter months. In addition, through the Housing Corporation, they have worked with the YWCA to provide three additional units at the YWCA to address the needs of homeless individuals and families for what is left of the winter months. That’s been in place for the winter. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Well, I don’t know if I can ask it in any other way. Is the Minister of Health and Social Services aware, and the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation and the Minister of income support, that there are dozens and dozens of families in Yellowknife who are homeless because they can’t get into public housing? They can only get $32 even if they find other housing. There is no way you can find lodging for that money. The Centre for Northern Families is really for certain women. I don’t think you can have kids there. The YWCA has a huge line-up. The Salvation Army is only for men. Where do families who don’t get anywhere go? I guess they have to go to income support. Does this cover those families who are caught in this maze of three or four different programs?

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. What I can tell the Member is this additional funding has been put in. I haven’t been made aware if this is deemed insufficient or there is a further crisis that’s not going to able to be handled in the short term. So I can’t answer the Member in any greater detail than I have already given her in terms of the current status or the waiting lists. My information is we have moved ahead on this and the money has been put to good use by the community of Yellowknife. It’s also been used to a certain extent in other communities that have required it on a case-by-case basis.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Ms. Lee.

The last question, Mr. Chairman, before we leave the Department of Health and Social Services; we are almost close to leaving this session. I know the Minister was waiting to hear from the federal government as to what is happening with the federal money that we want approved. Is there anything this Minister could advise this House?

Thank you. That is not part of the bill, but if the Minister would like to respond, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, there is an e-mail in my in basket upstairs that I haven’t had a chance to look at, but apparently we’ve got the first specific word from the federal government on the portion of money as it applies to waiting times. I just noticed it this morning. It’s fairly long and I haven’t had a chance to look at it, but that’s the one piece so far that they have agreed to. This is on the Canada health transfer side. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Perhaps he could tell us more about that tomorrow if there is any news to report.

Thank you. Community health programs, not previously authorized, $681,000.

Agreed.

Total department, not previously authorized, $11.077 million.

Agreed.

Page 12, Justice, operations expenditures, services to government, not previously authorized, $105,000.

Agreed.

Law enforcement, not previously authorized, $217,000.

Agreed.

Community justice and corrections, not previously authorized, $1.421 million.

Agreed.

Registries and court services, not previously authorized, $12,000.

Agreed.

Total department, not previously authorized, $1.755 million.

Agreed.

Page 13, NWT Housing Corporation, operations expenditures, NWT Housing Corporation, not previously authorized, $789,000. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a few questions with regard to budgeting for fuel prices. I am a bit concerned about this for a number of reasons. The figure just on increases alone in this supp is $2.22 million and that’s just on increases. If that is just on increases alone, does the Minister of FMB have any idea of what the government spends on an annual basis in terms of fuel? How is this budgeted for in the document that we just approved yesterday? What do they base their assumptions on? Is it the gas prices a year ago? How do they do that? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, this result is coming to us because we have, in a number of past years, told departments that they needed to come back with actual costs versus that of doing some forecasting. Budgets are built on an actual price as we prepare the budgets. As an example, the letters go out to departments in June to start preparing their budgets. They would build their information on the available cost of the day and they would also come forward and ask for forced growth and that could include areas such as fuel and electrical costs. They would review those within FMB and FMBS and at times we would tell them, because the volatility of the market was so much, we would rather just deal with it after the fact because of the prices jumping. In this case, we have seen the price of crude oil increase about 31 percent since 2002. That’s why we are seeing this come forward in this way. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The sum of $2.2 million; what period of time does that represent? Does that represent an entire calendar year or a portion of a calendar year? How does that work, Mr. Chairman?

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The request for the $2.2 million is to cover the 2004-05 year. As I stated earlier, when departments came in with the last budget request, we denied forced growth in these areas until we could substantiate if the prices would stay as high as they were going and that’s why we see this coming forward. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Does the Minister know what the GNWT spends on an annual basis in terms of fuel? What do we spend on an annual basis for everything?

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I don’t have that detail with me at this time. I can try to collect that information and provide it. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Ramsay.

I can wait for that detail. I am trying to understand it from a budgeting perspective on how it all works. Some departments budget it in a different way too. So if in a year you saw a 10 percent decrease, let’s pray that it happens, in the price of fuel, how is the government going to show that? Are we going to be expecting departments to give back hundreds of thousands of dollars because you didn’t need to spend it on fuel or will you find other places to spend it? That’s all I am getting at, Mr. Chairman.