Debates of May 11, 2007 (day 5)

Do you have a question, Ms. Lee?

…it went up because it went up down south. So could I ask the Minister to make a commitment to review the prices of gas at the gas stations in Yellowknife over the last three weeks and provide us with the information from the industry as to why they raised those prices? Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 56-15(6): Increase To Yellowknife Gasoline Prices

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First and foremost, we have to make it clear that within the Department of Finance we have no control over what the industry does in this area. The only place our government has an impact is in POL, or petroleum products division within Public Works and Services where we supply to communities where there is no private sector. Here in the North, the rest of the communities, the only impact we have is on the fuel tax side. That hasn’t changed, but I will request the department go back and look at the changes and then we’ll have to send an inquiry into some of the bulk dealers throughout the Territories. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Final, short supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 56-15(6): Increase To Yellowknife Gasoline Prices

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My request is very narrow and it’s not anything to do with the POL; I’m asking the Minister of Finance, as a public interest question -- and he can refer it to the Minister responsible for consumer protection, if they have any -- but I’d like to know if the Minister would report back to the Members as soon as possible within this month. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 56-15(6): Increase To Yellowknife Gasoline Prices

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, we will go back and look at some of the price changes and request information and then forward that on to Members. Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, my questions this morning are for Mr. Bell, the Minister responsible for Industry, Tourism and Investment, and it concerns the suggestion floated a few days ago by Tristone Capital that the Mackenzie Valley pipeline won’t cut it on commercial terms unless the federal government jumps in with a suggested $2 billion worth of support. Mr. Speaker, my first question is does the GNWT agree with the suggestion that the federal government must put taxpayers' money into the Mackenzie gas project to make it viable? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. The honourable Minister responsible for Industry, Tourism and Investment, Mr. Bell.

Return To Question 57-15(6): Mackenzie Gas Pipeline Legacy Infrastructure Projects

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Obviously, the new costing came out and although we were expecting an increase in the price of this project, we were surprised by the magnitude of the increase: $16 billion. I think the suspected or the whisper number on the street had been, sort of, in the 10 to 12 range. So this is much higher than we had anticipated. We’ve been lobbying for some time; we do believe that there is a logical role for governments in assisting this project. We’ve never been advocating that there be subsidies paid to the producers; we don’t think that makes sense or is the role of government, but we do believe that there are some areas governments can help. The Tristone report points those out. Whether it’s infrastructure investments that could bring down the price of this project, we know it would be cheaper to construct in the South because of our infrastructure disadvantage. So marine infrastructure, road infrastructure, airports; there are some things that can be done. Assistance to the APG is another area that we would like to see happen in the form of loan guarantees, Mr. Speaker, potentially some shipping commitment help. So there are a number of areas we see a logical role for governments. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 57-15(6): Mackenzie Gas Pipeline Legacy Infrastructure Projects

Mr. Speaker, considering the significance of this project to the Northwest Territories, is the Minister, is the government going to be more specific and be more aggressive about the kind of support we would like to see the federal government taking? Of course, there are lots of different options, all of them that make sense in certain areas, but which are the ones that make most sense for us for the long-term future of the Northwest Territories? Is the government going to be taking that case to the federal government and promote our interests in this project, Mr. Speaker?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 57-15(6): Mackenzie Gas Pipeline Legacy Infrastructure Projects

Mr. Speaker, there are discussions, if not currently underway, they’re imminent between our officials, federal officials and the pipeline proponents to talk about the areas that government could support and assist this project, and I’ve just indicated some of the options that we favour. We need to see more detail from the producers in terms of their costing. \what does that $16 billion comprise? What types of infrastructure would help make this project price come down? We want to make sure that we’re advocating for areas that will have the most impact on the price of this project. So there are discussions underway at the officials' level and once those take place, that will come back up to our Cabinet for further discussion. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 57-15(6): Mackenzie Gas Pipeline Legacy Infrastructure Projects

Mr. Speaker, I guess I’m a bit disappointed to hear that the GNWT has not got a more firm or more aggressive position on this at this point. The DIAND Minister, Jim Prentice, clearly has the mandate to make this happen. In light of the, as I indicated in my statement, absence so far of any substantive legacy project from the already massive development that is underway in the NWT, will the Minister seriously consider the advantages that legacy projects such as hydro, roads and communication projects will have and press that case for federal government investment, Mr. Speaker?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 57-15(6): Mackenzie Gas Pipeline Legacy Infrastructure Projects

Mr. Speaker, one of the reasons we like this project is because of the legacy it can create and, first and foremost, 50 or 100 year industry for people up and down the valley in terms of oil and gas exploration. There are logical infrastructure contributions we think can be made by the federal government. We’ve been advocating that for some time. Now what we do need to see from Imperial and the producers is some detailed breakdown on that costing. There's no sense for us advocating for roads that will have little or no impact on the project. We need to see this detail. They have indicated that it would be filed before the end of May. I think that is happening now as we speak, or very shortly. That’s when we can get down to the brass tacks in terms of discussions with the federal government and Imperial. There have been some high level discussions around support for the project, but without that detailed information it is very difficult for us to talk about what kinds of infrastructure will contribute the most. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Final supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 57-15(6): Mackenzie Gas Pipeline Legacy Infrastructure Projects

Mr. Speaker, you know, again, I want to appeal to the Minister and ask for his commitment to focus not on what’s good for the pipeline project, Exxon Mobil and the other investors; what is good for the Northwest Territories? Will this government finally and aggressively focus on what we need, not what works to the advantage of the pipeline proponents, Mr. Speaker?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 57-15(6): Mackenzie Gas Pipeline Legacy Infrastructure Projects

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would argue that what is good for this pipeline project and sees this pipeline project go ahead, eventually will be good for the Northwest Territories. It makes little sense for us to sit down with these three parties and argue for infrastructure contributions that have no bearing on whether or not this pipeline goes ahead. There’s a place for that and those are in discussions between our government and the federal government. There are a number of logical areas and we do that continually. However, if we’re talking about what can make this pipeline a reality, we need to understand from the project proponents where the project needs the most help, and that’s the approach that we’ve undertaken. We have, for some time, the Premier, Minister of Finance, myself, have been advocating for and lobbying for support to the APG. Those loan guarantees can bring down the cost of borrowing for the APG. They’re going to need some help. Obviously as the price of this project goes up, it’s going to mean they have to come to the table with more money. We’ve been working and focussing our efforts there primarily, but obviously we’re encouraged with the indication from Imperial that infrastructure contributions in the North would be an area that would really help them. We think that has the federal government’s attention and we will start to focus there as we see more detail. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in my statement today I talked about this being nurses week and I’d like to ask the Minister of Health and Social Services if he could provide this House with an update on our ability, as a government, to fill nursing positions in the North right now. In the past, we had been struggling to ensure that vacant positions were filled. We’ve used a lot of agency nurses in the communities, locums and at a probably greater cost than it would cost our government if we could have nurses come here, be recruited, retain them. I’d like to ask the Minister what is the status of the nursing shortage in the Northwest Territories today? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Minister responsible for Health and Social Services, Mr. Roland.

Return To Question 58-15(6): Recruitment And Retention Of Northern Nurses

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I don’t have the vacancies that we have across all the health authorities on me at this moment; I can get that information. What we have done, for example, in trying to address this, is we’ve worked with authorities on how we’re going to use agency nurses. There is a shortage yet; we still will use them from time to time, but what we’ve worked with authorities on is the fact that if agency nurses are going to be used, it is to ensure that our facilities stay open, not to do a top-up, as was happening in a number of stations. We continue to work around the continued education as well, and an example of that is the community health nurse initiative and the nurse practitioner initiative here in the Territories, and that mentorship, trying to encourage that in the Territories. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 58-15(6): Recruitment And Retention Of Northern Nurses

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yes, there has been a certain degree of success with some of those programs that the Minister has referred to, but he has confirmed that we still do have a nursing shortage in the Northwest Territories. I noticed when I was flying to Edmonton the other day, the Up Here magazine has an article called “Northern Outpost Nurses - Choose Your Adventure,” and there’s quite an extensive ad here trying to recruit nurses to join a venture healthcare program to go to northern outposts. I’m sure that it’s similar to the agency nurses that we hire. How aggressive are we being in terms of advertising and trying to attract nurses to the Northwest Territories? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 58-15(6): Recruitment And Retention Of Northern Nurses

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we have stepped up in that area of recruitment and are going to universities and colleges that have the nursing programs beyond our own program in trying to encourage nurses to come north. Put out packages and extend the fact that we have this new program of community health nurse side and nurse practitioner side as well, and we’re starting to do that work and looking at expanding it to bring more nurses to the North. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 58-15(6): Recruitment And Retention Of Northern Nurses

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I assume there’s an advertising campaign, as well; I’m assuming we go to job fairs. How many people in the Department of Health and Social Services are devoted to the task of recruitment of health care professionals to the North? If a nurse was reading this Outpost Nurses advertisement versus what we -- well, I’ve never seen an advertisement from us -- but how would what they’re offering and what we’re offering compare? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 58-15(6): Recruitment And Retention Of Northern Nurses

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we work with the Department of Human Resources on our recruitment and retention side closely. They have some dedicated staff that work with us. We do, internally, as well, within the department of working towards what we can do and that example I gave earlier about going to colleges, universities, along with our own recruitment practice we have with our own Nurse Graduate Program. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 58-15(6): Recruitment And Retention Of Northern Nurses

Thank you. I’m still not getting the sense that there’s any dedicated staff in Health and Social Services or in HR that are specifically devoted to recruitment efforts; I have not seen any advertising. So I’ll ask again are there any positions that are specifically dedicated to recruitment of nurses and do we have an advertising campaign? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 58-15(6): Recruitment And Retention Of Northern Nurses

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there are dedicated staff within HR. As well, we do have some staff within the department and I will get that information. Thank you.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, the honourable Minister Dent, on our income security reform, or income support reform that the department is going to be going through. I just wanted to talk about the recent payout of IBA to some income support clients in Fort Resolution that have been clawed back through their income support assistance for the month. I just want to ask the Minister in relation to the request for an exemption on the Hook Lake Bison Recovery Program and the compensation settlement on that. Will he direct the income security office in Fort Resolution to continue to treat these IBA settlement payments similar to this compensation settlement as excluded income? Will the Minister do that? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. The honourable Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 59-15(6): Income Support Program Treatment Of Impact Benefit Compensation

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and good morning. Mr. Speaker, the government’s position is that IBA payments are not compensation; they are a contractual arrangement between a band and between a company; they are a private contract. So in this circumstance they aren’t treated the same way as a compensation payment. So the answer to the Member's question is no, that would not be the direction provided.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Supplementary To Question 59-15(6): Income Support Program Treatment Of Impact Benefit Compensation

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Okay, well, let’s just get on the topic of compensation here and section 20 of the Income Assistance Program policies, Mr. Speaker. You know, we’re treating the Japanese Canadian Redress Agreement and the Merchant Navy Agreement as compensation and as exempt. I don’t know who thought that up, but any stuff like the Indian treaty money received is also exempt. It says here the beneficiary will not…your calculation of net monthly income. We receive treaty money once a year, Mr. Speaker. It’s $5 a year. They’ve got it in here. That’s an insult for the treaty money that we do receive. I would like to receive compensation included as IBA here. It says the Inuvialuit Final Agreement is treated as exempt. They receive up to $1,000 a year in compensation on this part and that is treated as exempt. Why can’t we treat IBAs the same, because it is compensation for loss of property, which is the land that the aboriginals use. Why isn’t it treated equally? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 59-15(6): Income Support Program Treatment Of Impact Benefit Compensation

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In fact, when we have court awards of compensation, for instance, in the residential school settlements, those are clearly exempt from our income support or consideration as income under our income support policies. Our legal opinions from Justice indicate that IBAs are contractual arrangements and are, therefore, not treated the same as compensation and that is the position of the government.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Supplementary To Question 59-15(6): Income Support Program Treatment Of Impact Benefit Compensation

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I know that through the RC distribution payment being considered exempt, they did take the government to court and the court did decide it should be exempt as income, as unearned income or exempt from clawback on your monthly income.

Mr. Speaker, if we are going to see residential school settlements being included as exempt in the new income support reform, then why can’t we include IBA dollars? A lot of claimant groups only get this money based on…It’s not guaranteed every year. They could have used the money for something else and they could have distributed it differently and in different circumstances. So why can’t we include that as an exemption in income because it’s not…