Debates of May 16, 2007 (day 8)

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With regard to looking at consultations and the aspects around compensation, again the corporation, Deze, has just formed a couple of weeks ago. It will be that agency or board who will be the ones doing consultation in the communities through our partnership with the Metis and the Akaitcho. We feel that allowing that agency to do the consultation and filing and application to the environmental regulatory boards will now open it up to public scrutiny where the public now has a format where they can ask questions, they can debate issues, they can talk about the compensation issues. We are looking at almost two years of thorough regulatory review. During that period, it will be there.

Again, as a government, in most cases when we developed our energy strategies, this project was always mentioned in the House. It was debated in this House. We have also allowed for our different strategies where we are working on developing a territory-wide hydro strategy that we are hoping to bring forward within the next couple of months which, again, will add to the importance of hydro energy in the Northwest Territories and also ensure that we do have cheap, reliable energy that people can take advantage of. We do have to do a better job by way of consultation. Again, I think it’s one of those things that we have to find a mechanism to do it with, and I think the ideal situation we are looking at is allowing the Deze board, which is our partner, where we have one-third say in that process to go out there, go into the communities, set up consultations. People have made attempts to go into different communities, and communities are busier having to deal with different issues. Now it’s just a matter of scheduling, making sure we get in there and have these meetings. Now this is a public document by filing our application with the Mackenzie Valley Land and Water Board. It will receive public scrutiny through that process. We can talk about social issues; we can talk about compensation issues; we can talk about right-of-way issues.

It’s important to do it right and do it in a way that we don’t rush it. Now we have that process in front of us. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Next I have Mr. Villeneuve.

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. I thank the Minister and his staff for coming in here and presenting Bill 4, Hydro Corporation Act. I would also like to thank the public for coming out during our round of consultations. It was unfortunate, Mr. Chair, that we couldn’t get into one of the communities that would have liked a consultation hearing held on this bill. Due to some unfortunate circumstances, our concerted efforts to get in there wouldn’t allow us to travel to Lutselk’e at this time. I hope the community will understand that during my extensive conversations with the chief on this bill, they fully understand this bill does in no way, shape or form commit the government or the Power Corporation to proceed with the Taltson hydro expansion project.

As the chair said in our opening comments, this is just the first step in allowing the NWT Power Corporation to move forward to develop a business plan, a feasibility study and a business case to allow any expansion of the Taltson should it be approved in the near future. I hope that through the next two years with extensive consultation processes going on through the Deze Corporation on this project, that they will be in all the communities that will be affected very regularly to update them and to hear their concerns on any new developments in the expansion project that they are moving forward on.

I just wanted us to make one point, I guess, with the Deze Corporation, just so far as the NWT Power Corp and this government’s energy plan on providing cheap, reliable clean power to communities in the south that are on the hydro grid. I hope that this project, if it does go through with any type of expansion, we do have a lot of power there to distribute and we are putting some public buildings on electric power now as a pilot project, but I hope when benefits do arise to the Akaitcho Government or to the Metis Nation through their partnership agreement with the Hydro Corporation, that there will be no clawbacks of Power Subsidy Program dollars or the like for the people that are receiving benefits through the development and the realization of a new expansion project.

With that, again, I just hope that the Minister will ensure that there is sufficient communications at all times during all stages of the review process on the Taltson expansion and even before it even gets off the ground, I think right after the bill has been passed here, they should get into all these communities, talk to all the First Nations people that have been affected by the original Taltson 24 years ago, that they can rest assured that all their concerns will be dealt with including compensation issues and impacts and benefits moving forward. With that, I will be pleased to hear how this is going to fit into the big energy plan of the government. I know that hydro is growing. It’s going to be big here in the NWT over the next 20 years. This is just a milestone that we are going to be seeing a lot more development on a lot more of our river systems here in the Territories in the future.

Again, I would just like to send out our apologies that we couldn’t get into Lutselk’e and I know the chief and council really wanted us there, but, unfortunately, we couldn’t fit it into the schedule and due to time constraints on pushing this bill forward and we didn’t want to bring the Deze Energy Corporation to a grinding halt, but hopefully the residents will understand that we will still have a lot of input and a lot of say into how the expansion rolls out. With that, I would like to thank the Minister and his colleagues. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, we are proceeding. The Deze board is going to be the key agency that we are looking at to do the consultation. They were in Lutselk’e on March 15th to meet with different groups and agencies. Again, they met with some people and other people had other commitments. I think also there is a legal issue that we are trying to deal with around Lutselk’e, because they have signed agreements with a southern firm by way of regional power. It is a legal, binding contract. Until that contract expires, we can’t be seen to be competing with the same interest. I think that’s an issue that we ensure that we inform them about.

Again, we are working with Lutselk’e on other issues such as the mini hydro stuff. I think that also is going on at the same time. So we are working along with them on the two fronts. I think it’s important that we do a better job by way of consultation. Now this thing is out in public. It is in front of a regulatory agency and again it’s crucial that we allow public consultation to take hold and ensure that we do have an energy grid and energy system that will bring cheap, reliable power to the Northwest Territories and its residents. I think one way we can do it is by selling power to large companies where they increase our customer base, but, more importantly, bring in more revenues by way of profits to the corporation so that we can continue to pay on the subsidy.

I want to make it clear to the Member that we have no plans or intentions of not paying into the subsidy program. I think it’s clear that this government owns the shares of the corporation and they request that we continue to pay into that program and we will continue to pay into that program. Again, it’s of crucial importance that we do look at long-term planning for the hydro power as mines come off the grid system and what are we going to do with that surplus power in the future. I think the pilot projects the Member touched on in regards to electric power initiatives we’re looking at in Fort Smith, I think two of those pilot projects we will be able to expand going forward and looking at the surplus that it is going to be there in the future by way of the diamonds, the life of the diamond mines will basically come off sooner than others.

In regards to BHP we know for a fact that they have somewhere in the range of about 10 or 15 years max of the time life, and the same will apply to Diavik and then also to the Snap Lake. I think that we have to plan for what’s going to happen in the future for that surplus power. Where does it go? What is it going to be used for? I think that’s something that we should also be considering in our discussions. Again, that’s something we’re building into our hydro strategy and I think that again will be, once it’s completed, tabled in this Legislature. With that, I’d like to thank the Member for his questions.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. General comments on Bill 4. If there’s no further comments, does committee agree to go clause by clause on Bill 4?

Agreed.

Bill 4, Northwest Territories Hydro Corporation Act, clause 1.

Agreed.

Clause 2.

Agreed.

Clause 3.

Agreed.

Clause 4.

Agreed.

Clause 5.

Agreed.

Clause 6.

Agreed.

Clause 7.

Agreed.

Clause 8.

Agreed.

Clause 9.

Agreed.

Page 5, clause 10.

Agreed.

Clause 11.

Agreed.

Clause 12.

Agreed.

Clause 13.

Agreed.

Clause 14.

Agreed.

Clause 15.

Agreed.

Page 6, clause 16.

Agreed.

Clause 17.

Agreed.

Clause 18.

Agreed.

Clause 19.

Agreed.

Page 7, clause 20. Mr. Villeneuve.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We were just humming along there. So I just wanted to ask on the limit on borrowing the outstanding principal of amounts borrowed not exceed $5 million. Is that the borrowing limit for the Hydro Corporation Act? If it is, how would they plan on financing an expansion with only a $5 million borrowing limit?

Does committee agree to go back to clause 18?

Agreed.