Debates of May 17, 2007 (day 9)

Mr. Ramsay; Mr. Pokiak; Mr. Villeneuve; Mr. Lafferty; Mr. Miltenberger; Mr. Yakeleya; Mr. McLeod, Inuvik Twin Lakes; Mr. Hawkins; Mrs. Groenewegen.

All those opposed to the motion, please stand.

---Applause

Ms. Lee, Mr. Braden.

All those abstaining, please stand.

Mr. Menicoche; Mr. Krutko; Mr. Roland; Mr. Handley; Mr. McLeod, Deh Cho; Mr. Bell.

Results of the vote are: in favour, nine; opposed, two; abstaining, six. The motion is carried.

---Carried

---Applause

What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Lafferty.

Mahsi, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, the committee wishes to consider Committee Report 3-15(6), Child and Family Services Act. Mahsi, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Is committee agreed?

Agreed.

(Mrs. Groenewegen): Thank you. We will do that after a break.

---SHORT RECESS

(Mrs. Groenewegen): I would like to call Committee of the Whole to order. We were dealing with Committee Report 3-15(6), Report on Matters Related to Child and Family Services Act. There are six recommendations in the form of motions. Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Madam Chair. The Standing Committee on Social Programs read into this House, for the record, the committee report. It dealt with issues arising out of our committee’s review of the amendment to the Child and Family Services Act. In our discussions and public hearings, we came to realize that there were lots of concerns that were brought to us by the members of the public, as well as within our committee. We chose to file a different report on that because we realize that some of those issues that were brought up were not within the…(inaudible)…of the amendment which was quite narrow in scope. So we have read into the record six motions earlier, recommendations, and we want to turn them into motions in this setting.

To start with, I would like to ask the deputy chair of the committee, Mr. Norman Yakeleya, to do the first motion.

(Mrs. Groenewegen): Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Yakeleya.

(Mrs. Groenewegen): Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Question.

(Mrs. Groenewegen): Question is being called. All those in favour of the motion? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Thank you, Madam Chair. I move that this committee recommends that the Minister examines the issue of involving non-custodial parents in caring for apprehended children and, if necessary, make required necessary and regulatory changes to allow child protection workers the discretionary powers to place apprehended children with the non-custodial parent on a temporary basis, providing it is in the best interest of the child. Thank you, Madam Chair.

(Mrs. Groenewegen): Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Braden.

A bit of the context to this, Madam Chair. Of course, parental break-up is prevalent everywhere. In the event that a child is removed from the parent that does have custody, we heard in our travels that, in some cases, the other parent, while they may be sort of separated and out of the household, could still be a very viable and a safe place for the apprehended child to go. I guess what we want to do is ask the Minister to clear the way. I think there are some barriers in place now that may prevent childcare workers from going to the separated non-custodial parent. We think that there is value in allowing a childcare worker to look at that as an option. It can be very painful for a non-custodial parent to see their child going to a non-related home because of some systemic problem. We think that this option should be made available. That is the purpose of the motion, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. To the motion.

Question.

Question has been called. All those in favour of the motion? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Madam Chair, I move that this committee recommend that the Minister issue a directive reinforcing the use of extended families in the placement of apprehended children and that every effort be made to place children with extended family within the child’s home community before a child protection worker considers placement in a foster home in or outside the child’s home community. Mahsi, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. The motion is in order. To the motion. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I agree with this idea of using extended families for the placement of an apprehended child. I just have two caveats or concerns about that. I think that extended families should receive the same remuneration to care for that child as would a foster family that would not be related to that child. The reason being is that sometimes, just because it is an extended family, it doesn’t mean that they don’t have other obligations, a job or may need to procure childcare or support. I think sometimes it has been the thinking of the system that if you put a child with an extended family member, automatically there should be no financial assistance for that family member to take care of that child. I think that is maybe one of the reasons why there has been some resistance, because it can create quite a change in the family dynamics to take in especially younger children that need some supplementary care or babysitting. That is one thing that I would say about that.

Another thing is that I don’t think that extended family members should automatically be considered a viable placement either. I know there is always the overriding thought that they will do what is in the best interests of the child, but I think that the extended family should still, even though they are related, be subject to the same kind of home study, stability study, that any foster family caring for a child would undergo. It can be done fairly quickly. It can be done on an emergency basis. It can be done and assessed fairly quickly, but there have been some pretty publicized cases where children were being cared for by grandparents or extended family members that it was not a good situation for that kid. I don’t think you can just categorically say because this person is a relative, they are an ideal placement. It should be subject to the same kinds of criteria that you would use in approving any home for a child that has been apprehended. Those are just my two comments and concerns on that. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Lafferty. To the motion.

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I just highlighted the whole purpose of this motion that was brought forward was due to the fact that we consulted with the communities. The community elders, mostly elders, have told us that with the apprehension process, most of the kids are transferred to Yellowknife. That is the whole idea behind this motion where we always stress the importance of having the child with an extended family member. I do agree with Mrs. Groenewegen from Hay River South, that there has to be a fit home as well in the community with the extended family. Is it a safe home? It has to be a safe home. That should be a priority. But there are other extended family members within the community. We all know each other. I fully respect that and I fully support that, too. There has to be a safe home. We are doing this for the safety and well-being and also the best interests of the child. At the same time, we come from a small community. We also speak our language, as well. We are also lucky to have our cultural background as well with our elders in the community. Certainly, we cannot punish the child when he/she has been taken to a bigger city where a child does not speak English, but the English speaking foster parents are there. So I do understand to some degree that it is a last resort. Yes, I will support that if it is the last resort because of the well-being of the child. At the same time, we must work in the community to identify those suitable homes for the extended family. Mr. Chair, that is the whole purpose of the motion that is brought forward to us. I just want to highlight that. Mahsi, Mr. Chair.

Mahsi, Mr. Lafferty. To the motion. Mr. Pokiak.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I agree with my colleagues here. I sort of agree with Mrs. Groenewegen with regard to remuneration of extended family members. I also think that it is important. I know that child welfare workers work really closely with families to investigate the homes all the time. That is one of the responsibilities, to make sure that wherever you take the child, apprehend the child, you have to place them in a safe home whether that is extended family or a foster care home. One of the difficulties in small communities, though, is trying to get foster homes, because a lot of the people are afraid that, if the family members know where the child is, they will come knocking on the door. That is one of the reasons why it is very hard to allocate foster homes in the home community. One of the best options is to use extended families in cases like that. In extreme cases, I strongly believe that, if the child’s welfare is at stake, if the department has no other choice but to send them outside of the community, do it as a last resort. That is all I have to say, Mr. Chair. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak. To the motion.

Question.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I move that this committee recommends that the Minister direct the department and authorities to continue with ongoing activities and to design and adequately resource a plan to develop child and family services committees in the communities and that this plan be presented to the Standing Committee on Social Programs as part of the 2009-2010 business plan. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak. The motion is in order. To the motion. Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to add to this. I will be voting in favour of this motion. I just want to state that, in our committee discussions about all that we heard, we were quite puzzled by the fact that, as of now, there is only one family services committee in the communities and that is in Fort McPherson. We also recalled when we were in Fort McPherson about a year ago, we were told that up to one-third of children in that community were being apprehended. I think the community felt really important that day getting to action and set up a committee and to not only deal with the situation, but work towards reducing the need to apprehend children. I think they have done that job because I believe the latest statistics showed that the apprehension has gone down. I do appreciate that there have to be a lot of community leaders working in different areas to make that happen. I think what is happening here is the legislation provides for such communities, but there have not been parallel resources that go with that or the leadership and support on the part of the government to facilitate that process. So the possibility that was envisioned in legislation has been allowed to fall by the wayside. Through this recommendation, we are hoping that the department will pay more attention and work with communities at least in major centres or in communities where there are more apprehensions, where there are frequent apprehensions. We could understand that in some communities they have not had an apprehension so there might not be a need for such a committee, but I think we feel what is happening is these committees are not in place. Their absence is not noticed until a child is actually being apprehended. By then, it is too late to set up a committee and the people in the communities are left to wonder, how come we didn’t have any say on what is going to happen with this child or what is in the best interests of the children? In order to avoid that, we need to have the department working more diligently to facilitate this from happening.

I do want to state that we do understand that there is a plan of care committee that gets set up when a child is apprehended. But this is something different than that. So I just want to put the context of this motion in order. We just would like to see the department putting some resources into this so that, while the child protection workers have to do their job of protecting the safety of the children, we do make some effort to involve the communities in talking about and in having a say on what is to happen to those children. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. To the motion.

Question.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I move that this committee recommend that the department work towards increasing the number of foster homes in the NWT and that a plan, complete with numbers of existing foster homes, targeted increases and required resources, be presented to the Standing Committee on Social Programs as part of the 2009-2010 business plans. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Committee recommended this motion because foster parents provide a very important service. I have had the opportunity at one time to foster a couple of boys, so I have an idea of what is required of foster parents. To see that the government put a little bit more money raising the basic rates I think is a good thing. The cost is going up. One thing I would caution the government…Right now, you have people that aren’t foster parents. A lot of these people care very deeply about children, their safety and their well-being so they, regardless of the remuneration, become foster parents just because they care about the well-being of these children. Now, the rates are going up. We are hoping to increase the number of foster homes that these children can be placed into, but I do want to caution the government to take great care in selecting and choosing who can be foster parents. I don’t want to get into a situation where some people become foster parents because remuneration is a little higher than it normally is. So that would be something that I would caution the government to take into consideration. I do know that you have to go through quite a screening process to become foster parents, because of being through that and qualified foster parents in the Yukon and the Northwest Territories. That is one of the reasons, Mr. Speaker, that we thought we would bring this motion forward. I think it is a good motion. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. To the motion.

Question.