Debates of May 27, 2004 (day 14)

Item 6, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s nice to see a lot of young faces in the gallery today. I would like to recognize my partner, my boss and supporter, Cheryl Bonnetrouge, who is in the gallery here. Thank you.

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Item 6, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Zoe.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize the president of the Royal Canadian Legion, Yellowknife branch, Mr. Lloyd Lush.

---Applause

I would like to welcome you to the gallery. At this time, I would like to thank the class from Hay River for coming to Yellowknife and for getting some insight to how the Legislative Assembly works, and hopefully that you have something to take back to your class in Hay River and share with your other classmates in Hay River. Also I hope to see you back here again to ensure you keep an eye on how our government works, your MLAs, the Premier and myself. So it was a real honour to have you here today and I wish you a safe trip home. Thanks for coming. You are always welcome back.

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as per my Member’s statement earlier today, I said I believed that the Department of RWED has misinterpreted their contractual obligation with the City of Yellowknife. At this time, Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister of RWED, when did his department cancel this contract with the City of Yellowknife and did they provide notice by the January 1st deadline as required in the contract? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Bell.

Return To Question 143-15(3): Lifeguards At Fred Henne Territorial Park

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I don’t have the benefit of the contract in front of me, as it seems Mr. Hawkins does. I appreciate that he will table it later today, so we have it and I can probably give him some more important answers at that point. Just a little background, Mr. Speaker, though, I believe we approached negotiations with the city this year and were looking to sign a contract, recognizing that costs had increased. It has always been on a cost-shared basis in the past. Past expenditures have been about $12,000 for our government. We went into these negotiations and offered $15,000 this year. It’s my understanding that the City of Yellowknife had made a determination that they wanted full cost recovery and no longer wanted to share the cost of these services and indicated the full cost was $21,000. So we were unable to come to an agreement at that point. I don’t believe -- and I will wait to see the contract -- that we had an obligation to inform the city by January 1st. I have to take the Member’s word for it at this point, but I believe that contract has expired, but I will wait to see the contract. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 143-15(3): Lifeguards At Fred Henne Territorial Park

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will first say I noted the willingness to talk to the City of Yellowknife in the Minister’s voice there, so I may forego my other excitable questions by asking for a commitment today that the Minister will open up negotiations with the City of Yellowknife as soon as possible to ensure that we do have life-guarding services in this territorial park. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister of RWED, Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 143-15(3): Lifeguards At Fred Henne Territorial Park

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Of course, we didn’t have life-guarding services last year. The contract notwithstanding, the city was unable to find people to do the life-guarding. Obviously it would be nice if there were lifeguards at all our NWT parks that are on water. I believe there are about 15 of them across the territory. I don’t believe there are any lifeguards at any others, unless there are municipalities providing that service. I can indicate to the Member that I have called the mayor’s office to discuss this matter. We have been playing phone tag. I do look forward to sitting down and discussing it with him further, but I hope he will recognize if you take a number like $21,000 and extrapolate that over 15 other parks, we are talking into the $300,000 range. In this instance, it would appear that Yellowknife is in a unique situation over the past two years of having had a contribution where other beaches have not. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 143-15(3): Lifeguards At Fred Henne Territorial Park

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Due to the complexity of the last answer, it forces me to ask again for reassurance on the Minister’s commitment. Due to the fact that we have a historical commitment on an open contract, as I read it, which I will further table today, I would like absolute commitment, so I can feel confident today that this Minister will deal with this historical problem and ensure that we have safety at this territorial park beach. I used to lifeguard at this beach and I am sorry I have to say here today that I can even recall the honourable Minister frolicking on that beach under the safety of a lifeguard. I would not like to put people in jeopardy on that beach. Can I have an absolutely firm commitment from the Minister that he will ensure that they will address this problem immediately with the City of Yellowknife?

Hear, hear!

Minister of RWED, Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 143-15(3): Lifeguards At Fred Henne Territorial Park

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will go the Member one better. I also was a lifeguard at the beach and I hope I wasn’t frolicking on the job.

---Laughter

I recognize that it would be certainly helpful and it is important to make sure that the beach is safe. We are proposing that it be posted as unsupervised. I can’t guarantee that there will be lifeguard services at that beach, no more than the past Minister could for the past season despite the contract in place. The city was unable to provide lifeguards. So it would be misleading for me to stand here and say that I could guarantee that there would be lifeguards at that beach. I think another point to keep in mind, Mr. Speaker, is despite life-guarding in the past, there has always been hours. In most cases during the week, life-guarding services didn’t start until noon. In my past experience on the job, you would show up on a hot, sunny day at noon to find the beach full and kids swimming. There really is an obligation on the part of parents to be vigilant and to make sure that they know where their children are, make sure that their children are supervised while swimming, swimming within the guarded area even when there are lifeguards on duty because as a lifeguard you can’t insist that children stay within the guarded area. I don’t think this government can guarantee the safety in the water of children. I think parents have to work hard to do that and I don’t want to make guarantees that I can’t fulfill. I will indicate, as I have, that I am prepared to sit down and discuss the matter with the mayor and council. We would like to come to some sort of resolution. I think that’s important, but I don‘t want to make guarantees I can’t deliver on. Thank you.

Final supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 143-15(3): Lifeguards At Fred Henne Territorial Park

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am only concerned about the obligation of safety, whereas the territorial government may see no smoking as a personal obligation, yet the territorial government engages in non-smoking policies and safety policies. Last year was an anomaly and we pointed out the uniqueness of it, whereas qualified lifeguards were not available. This year they are available, so I would like to think that the territorial government is trying to ensure the lifeguards are there. I am asking for the Minister to ensure that he will be there contractually to help support through financial means, so that this service can continue as it historically has. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 143-15(3): Lifeguards At Fred Henne Territorial Park

Mr. Speaker, again, I can’t provide that assurance. In the past it has been a $12,000 contribution, it has been cost shared, a shared responsibility with the city. The proposal this year from our government, recognizing that costs have indeed gone up, was to increase that to $15,000, recognizing that it should still be on a cost-shared basis. The city countered with full cost recovery only, turned down the $15,000 offer, wanted the $21,000 in full cost recoveries. So I can’t guarantee that we’ll come to a contractual arrangement, but I will guarantee that I will sit down and speak with the mayor on the matter. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, have my questions directed to the Minister of RWED. The contents of my Member’s statement referred that we definitely need a policy framework for negative impacts as it pertains to industry development across the Northwest Territories. So could the Minister provide this House as to what framework was used for the Snap Lake project as it was raised in the news release on the Snap Lake agreement? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister of RWED, Mr. Bell.

Return to Question 144-15(3): Potential Impacts Of Resource Development In The Mackenzie Valley

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We talk about the context or the frame in which negotiations were undertaken with DeBeers in this matter, in developing our socioeconomic agreement. I would say that we took our guidance from past SEA agreements with BHP and with Rio Tinto, and further to that, Mr. Speaker, followed the direction as laid out in the EA process by the Mackenzie Valley Environmental Impact Review Board. That EA process provided the frame of reference, and laid out a number of obligations that had to be met both by the company, by DeBeers, and by our government. So we’ve used that as our context or frame for developing the socioeconomic agreement. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Allen.

Supplementary To Question 144-15(3): Potential Impacts Of Resource Development In The Mackenzie Valley

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So would the Minister confirm then if this same process will be used for the Mackenzie Valley pipeline, and the pipeline groups? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 144-15(3): Potential Impacts Of Resource Development In The Mackenzie Valley

I think philosophically we are talking about, Mr. Speaker, the same idea. We’ve been working to negotiate a protocol agreement with the producers group. That protocol agreement would be an umbrella agreement that would spell out the number of sub-agreements that come under it. I think there are -- I am going to guess between nine and 15 -- one of those agreements would be the socioeconomic agreement, and we’ve also had discussions about the length of time it has been taking to get the protocol agreement finalized. We are in discussions with the producers group and at the same time moving forward on the SEA process, starting to negotiate the socioeconomic process, because, of course, we are concerned about the time frame here, we want to move forward quickly. But, the ideas are similar. We are talking about business targets, we are talking about employment targets. Those kinds of things would be included in this agreement. In general, Mr. Speaker, we are talking about benefits that we think should accrue to residents of the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Allen.

Supplementary To Question 144-15(3): Potential Impacts Of Resource Development In The Mackenzie Valley

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. All said and done, although one key component seems to be missing, and that is in terms of monitoring of these agreements. So will the department continue to the monitor these reports and the contents of the BHP and Diavik previous agreements? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister of RWED, Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 144-15(3): Potential Impacts Of Resource Development In The Mackenzie Valley

Thank you. The Member is certainly right; we have monitoring obligations. We have obligations that are shared with BHP and with Diavik, and we will with DeBeers, as well. We are proposing to set up a joint monitoring board under the terms of the new agreement, and have done likewise in some of the past agreements. I think the Member is making the point that we need to be vigilant in monitoring. I agree with the Member. We have to ensure that the commitments being made, and that we spent so much time negotiating, are being lived up to. Obviously we have an obligation in that regard, and my department has an obligation, and I take the Member’s point that we certainly need to be fulfilling that commitment. Thank you.

Final supplementary, Mr. Allen.

Supplementary To Question 144-15(3): Potential Impacts Of Resource Development In The Mackenzie Valley

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Then can the Minister articulate to this House and to the people of the Northwest Territories and conclude that there will be no negative impacts or negative effects on government from these projects? Could he state that to this assembly? Thank you.

Minister of RWED, Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 144-15(3): Potential Impacts Of Resource Development In The Mackenzie Valley

Thank you. In terms of negative impacts on the people of the Northwest Territories, obviously we want to mitigate those wherever possible. I can assure the Member that I’m sitting down with my colleagues, the Minister responsible for the social envelope, to first identify what those potential impacts are, and we have some I would say track record now. We can take a look at our experience with the course of the last couple of mines. I think we need to learn from that. We need to understand where the challenges are, and where there are potential impacts seek to mitigate them. There certainly has to be structure and framework in place to do that. I give the Members my assurance that that’s high on our radar as a government, and we are dedicating resources to making sure we collaborate interdepartmentally to meet that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are for the Premier, and they are a follow-up to my statement about an aspect of the affirmative action policy. As I said, I have had constituents remark, and in fact complain, that the policy really amounts to a form of age discrimination. I also spoke of our previous government's commitment to look at this issue, but I have found in my research no evidence that this was addressed. Mr. Speaker, can the Premier tell this assembly whether this government has examined its affirmative action policy in light of changing circumstances and the passage of time? Thank you.

Mr. Premier, Mr. Handley.

Return To Question 145-15(3): Examination Of The Affirmative Action Policy

Mr. Speaker, no, this government has not had an opportunity yet to review the affirmative action policy. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 145-15(3): Examination Of The Affirmative Action Policy

Mr. Speaker, specific to the residency criteria, could the Premier advise whether he is in any position to consider whether this half lifetime requirement for eligibility for hiring in our government is still acceptable in today’s human rights standards? Thank you.

Mr. Premier, Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 145-15(3): Examination Of The Affirmative Action Policy

Mr. Speaker, I’ve asked the same question. First of all, what is the rationale for half of one’s lifetime in order to qualify under the affirmative action policy, and I am also asking whether this is any inconsistency or possible violation of our other legislation. But, Mr. Speaker, at this time I don’t know the rationale that was used at the time this was established. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 145-15(3): Examination Of The Affirmative Action Policy

Mr. Speaker, as the 15th Assembly has been preparing its work plans and its priorities in committee, and in consultation with other leaders in the NWT, a fair amount of attention has been paid to growing and sustaining a workforce with the government that is capable and willing to perform the tasks that we require as a new government. A number of areas of how do we do this, how do we enable our civil service to be the best it can be have been addressed? Is a review of the affirmative action policy one of the priorities that this government will undertake during the life of this assembly? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Premier, Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 145-15(3): Examination Of The Affirmative Action Policy

Mr. Speaker, certainly we will be looking at this as time permits. Our statistics in terms of employment of people, whether its indigenous aboriginal persons or indigenous non-aboriginal persons, or disabled people, or women in management, are important to us, and we certainly want to have employment that reflects our population. So, yes, this will be looked at by the 15th Assembly. Thank you.