Debates of May 27, 2004 (day 14)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In reference to my statement earlier today, I would like to ask the Minister if he knows or if he is aware, as the Minister of Justice, of the fact that guards at the Yellowknife Correctional Centre currently administer medications, narcotics and other medicine to inmates. This happens daily, even though none of the guards have formal training on handling these medications, and I am wondering if this causes the Minister any concern, and what this practice does to the GNWT’s liability. Thank you.

Minister of Justice, two questions.

Return To Question 146-15(3): Delivery Of Health Services In Yellowknife Correctional Centre

Mr. Speaker, in response to the first question, yes, I am aware that corrections officers do hand out medications to inmates, and to the supplementary, they are only handed out under the direction of medical staff, and only when officers have completed a training course.

Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 146-15(3): Delivery Of Health Services In Yellowknife Correctional Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. What are the impacts of the ongoing issues at the Yellowknife Correctional Centre in the health services unit? What kind of impact is it having on Stanton Territorial Hospital? I know inmates have to go to Stanton for procedures that could and should be done at the facility, and I have also been made aware that casual nurses are actually being taken from the hospital and sent over to the facility. Thank you.

Minister of Justice, Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 146-15(3): Delivery Of Health Services In Yellowknife Correctional Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the intention is to be able to deliver the services at the facility, and we do currently have two nurses on staff to be able to provide services. I am advised by the Department of Health and Social Services that there has been no appreciable increase or noticeable increase in the patients from YCC to date. Thank you.

Final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 146-15(3): Delivery Of Health Services In Yellowknife Correctional Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I understand it, the audit was conduced solely by Ms. Shannon Weatherhead-McCoy, the chief of health services from Drumheller Institution in Alberta. Why wasn’t the Department of Justice corrections investigator involved in this audit, as was set out in the conveyance order? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister of Justice, Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 146-15(3): Delivery Of Health Services In Yellowknife Correctional Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, that individual was unavailable at the time that we wanted to have the audit work done. Rather than hold it up and wait until both were available, it was felt that the person from Corrections Canada was well qualified to conduct the audit or the review, and that is the reason that it went forward at the time it did. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Premier, and it is with regard to the Member’s statement by Mr. Zoe earlier today. Mr. Speaker, I can’t say that I know all of the details that pertain to the incident that led to the statement by Mr. Zoe today, but I have had the opportunity to speak to those who have more knowledge about it, and my understanding is that the incident was quite serious, and one that has brought disrepute and questioned the integrity of this House. Mr. Speaker, I have to tell you that I take membership in this assembly as a privilege that is very important and serious, and one that I have to work really hard to uphold. It is the standard that we have for all of us, and the respect and the expectations that people have of this assembly depends on the conduct of all the Members of this House. My information is that what Mr. Zoe did in this incident has put a dark shadow on that, and one of the things that the public has said is that if anybody in the public did what Mr. Zoe did, they would be fired. So I would like to ask the Premier whether he has given any consideration to remove the portfolios from Mr. Zoe. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Premier, Mr. Handley.

Return To Question 147-15(3): Disciplinary Action For The Conduct Of Minister Zoe

Mr. Speaker, the incident that occurred is certainly being viewed as one that we take seriously. I can let the Member know that upon hearing about it, I did call the Legion, I did talk with Mr. Zoe, I sent a letter to all of the Members advising them of the incident, and I have also spoken to many of the Members about this particular incident. Mr. Speaker, the incident is serious, and it is one that I certainly view as one that we don’t want to see happening, whether it is MLAs or Ministers. I can assure the Member that I have also included in the mandate letters to all of the Ministers concerned with regard to anything that brings embarrassment to our government. Thank you.

Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 147-15(3): Disciplinary Action For The Conduct Of Minister Zoe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to add that I have a lot of respect for Mr. Zoe, as I have for Members in this House. I do believe he is a very capable Minister. I believe the issue here is something quite different, and I believe the issue has to do with leadership. I would rather like to see a situation where Mr. Zoe maintains his duties in Cabinet, but I need to be assured that there are decisions made by decision makers with the power to make sure that it doesn’t happen again, and the statement today does not tell me, and does not give me the confidence that we have taken the steps necessary to make sure that it doesn’t happen again. So I would like to know if the Premier would exercise his power -- and he has the power -- to discipline his Minister to make sure this doesn’t happen again. What sort of disciplinary action has the Premier taken as the leader of the pack? Thank you.

Mr. Premier, Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 147-15(3): Disciplinary Action For The Conduct Of Minister Zoe

Mr. Speaker, I’ve outlined some of the actions I have taken. I am doing another letter as a reminder to all of Cabinet that we cannot tolerate these kinds of incidents. So that will be going out today or tomorrow. I assure the Member that I do view this very seriously. We maintain high ethical standards within this House and certainly within Cabinet, and if there is another such incident then, as I have told many Members, that I will then make fairly strong recommendations to this House.

Mr. Speaker, I want to remind us that it is not me who makes that decision, it is the House that has selected me as Premier, it is the House that has selected the Cabinet, and we have to work as a team in dealing with these kinds of issues. But I assure the House that we maintain the highest ethical standards that can be expected of people, and I don’t intend to vary from that. Thank you.

Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 147-15(3): Disciplinary Action For The Conduct Of Minister Zoe

Thank you. Mr. Speaker, I just want to state that I think that we have to be fully mindful of the fact that we are dealing with the public expectations and our responsibility to the public. I don’t believe this is now limited to what happened in the Legion. It is not a Legion issue. It is an issue that goes to the general public. Mr. Speaker, I don’t believe the public who knows about this -- and there are a lot of people in the public who knows about what happened -- are satisfied with the Premier and Members around this House exchanging letters. I think the public expects us to do more to show, and not just talk about it, but to act the talk. So I think the public has the right that concrete actions were taken, and I have to remind the Premier he has the power to take disciplinary actions, and he has the power to remove the portfolios from him. Would the Premier consider that? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Premier, Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 147-15(3): Disciplinary Action For The Conduct Of Minister Zoe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Zoe’s mandate and portfolio is…With him certainly I have considered it, certainly I will consider it in the future. If anything like this ever happens again, not just with Mr. Zoe but with all of Cabinet, I have looked at this one very seriously, I have followed up with the Legion. Mr. Zoe has as well, apologized; the Legion has given me a letter indicating that they have accepted the apology. Today Mr. Zoe stood up and made an apology to all of us and to the public, and has indicated that this will not happen again. I assure the Members again that if there is any such thing happening again, not just by Mr. Zoe but by the whole of Cabinet including myself, then we will take action. I intend immediately to follow up with another letter to confirm that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Final supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 147-15(3): Disciplinary Action For The Conduct Of Minister Zoe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I don’t believe the Premier has answered the question, and that is doing his part to not just do the letters. How many letters can you write? Does he not think, based on the information that he has, that what happened is not important enough for him to take more action than writing letters? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Premier, Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 147-15(3): Disciplinary Action For The Conduct Of Minister Zoe

Mr. Speaker, I believe that the action that I have taken and the action that Mr. Zoe has taken certainly indicates that we view this issue very, very seriously. I believe that what has been done to date not only upholds our ethical standards, but is also showing responsibility towards ourselves as Cabinet Ministers and as MLAs. I want to make it very clear that there will be absolutely no tolerance from here on, and I have said that to many of the Members. I have told Mr. Zoe, I have told all of Cabinet, that there will be no further acceptance of this. Mr. Speaker, I don’t want to get into the details of this, but at this point I think that we have dealt with the issue, I think I have dealt with it in a way that is fair, and I think at the same time underlines the importance and the significance of this kind of incident. I can assure you, Mr. Speaker, and assure this House that this will not be tolerated further. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the Minister of Transportation. It has to do with my Member’s statement with regard to identity theft. It is an issue that is an increasing problem right across Canada, the Northwest Territories and in the United States, as well. The numbers are increasing dramatically. I was wondering if the Minister of Transportation could tell this House whether his department has any statistics on the number of thefts that go on in the Northwest Territories with regard to vehicles, and drivers' licences that do result in loss of compensation and new identities being formed. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister of Transportation, Mr. McLeod.

Return To Question 148-15(3): Incidence of Identity Theft In The Northwest Territories

Mr. Speaker, no, I don’t have those statistics. I know it is a concern, it has been a concern raised to us by a number of organizations and individuals. However, I do not have that information in front of me. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Delorey.

Supplementary To Question 148-15(3): Incidence of Identity Theft In The Northwest Territories

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, one of the issues that was brought up yesterday by my colleague, Mr. Hawkins, was drivers' licences, and the importance of us doing work to correct the problems with our drivers' licences. In following up with that, that is an area where a lot of theft is going on to get new identities, and our drivers' licences being plasticized leads to that quite easily. Can the Minister tell this House when his department is going to be coming forward with changes to our drivers' licences and, more importantly, when will we get to see what changes are being made because there is more than one problem with the drivers' licences when it comes to identity theft? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister of Transportation, Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 148-15(3): Incidence of Identity Theft In The Northwest Territories

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I indicated yesterday that we have been working on this issue with a number of jurisdictions, and also the Canadian Council of Motor Transportation Administrators and the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators. We are trying to develop standards that will receive national consensus. We are doing a needs analysis and we have hired a contractor, and we expect those results very shortly. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Delorey.

Supplementary To Question 148-15(3): Incidence of Identity Theft In The Northwest Territories

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I had mentioned previously, there are a number of flaws in our drivers' licences that lead to identity theft, and one of the very important ones that was the fact that drivers' licences in the Northwest Territories, people who hold a driver's licence are allowed to have a driver's licence and only have a box number, no street number on their driver's licence. So it could be a box number from anywhere, but there is no street address on their driver's licence. I think we are the only jurisdiction in Canada that allows that. Will that be addressed, and is it a concern that the Minister is aware of? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister of Transportation, Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 148-15(3): Incidence of Identity Theft In The Northwest Territories

Yes, Mr. Speaker. There is that issue. There are other issues that are a concern regarding security, and the issue of drivers' licences and the issue of using drivers' licences as identification documents. We are looking at it. We intend to proceed with the development of a new format. We’d like to have that in place at least within the next year. It is something that we tamperproof, bulletproof, digitize, and we will have something to present to the committee fairly soon, as we’d like to have this document in the works and out in the next year or so. Thank you.

Final supplementary, Mr. Delorey.

Supplementary To Question 148-15(3): Incidence of Identity Theft In The Northwest Territories

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am glad to hear that the department is working on it and hope to have something come forward fairly quickly on this, but it is an issue that I think needs some public awareness on as well, because it leads to not only changes of identity, but also in losses in revenues, and people can access different things with different identities. So I think one of the big areas that is happening is that people tend to leave their driver's licence, their registration, their insurance cards in their vehicles, and the number of vehicles that are being stolen today lead to that information being out there. So I am wondering if the department is doing any public awareness campaign to make owners of vehicles, drivers to not leave those pieces of information in their vehicles for that very reason. Once people have them, they can do all kinds of things with that information. I don’t even know what the laws are around leaving all of that information in your vehicle, or taking it out, but I think it is an area that should be addressed. Is the department doing anything to make the public aware of that? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister of Transportation, Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 148-15(3): Incidence of Identity Theft In The Northwest Territories

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I indicated, the Department of Transportation has been working on this issue for a number of years; I believe it is since 2001. However, we are trying to get national consensus from a number of different agencies, and everybody has to be in agreement with these national standards, and we can only operate as fast as those standards are set. We intend to try to get something done in the near future; we are near conclusion. The information that the Member is asking is usually provided at the time of issuing licences. We ask that these documents are kept secure. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to follow up on the questions asked by Ms. Lee here with respect to the statement made in the House today by Mr. Zoe, and my questions will be directed to the Premier, as well. I would like to say, also for the record, that I am not satisfied with the statement that was made in the House today. I think it was sugar coated. I think that there are a lot more things that happened. It is not just about an altercation, it is not just about the Royal Canadian Legion. This is not about the Royal Canadian Legion, and I must say I was a little taken aback by the presence of the president here in the gallery today. Certainly it is open to the public, but I don’t know what that message is supposed to be. I’m a member of the Legion, too. This is about a Minister’s conduct. I’d like to ask the Premier, has he ever specifically talked to and warned Mr. Zoe with respect to incidents of this nature taking place during his tenure as a Cabinet Minister? Thank you.

Mr. Premier, Mr. Handley.

Return To Question 149-15(3): Disciplinary Action For The Conduct Of Minister Zoe

Mr. Speaker, yes, I have spoken to Mr. Zoe about these kinds of incidences. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 149-15(3): Disciplinary Action For The Conduct Of Minister Zoe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So what I was hearing earlier today was that this sounds like it was an isolated incident, and Mr. Speaker, I don’t believe this is an isolated incident. I think that this is something that there has been a series of incidents around, and if the Premier, Mr. Speaker, has already warned Mr. Zoe about this, I am not quite sure I understand what the purposes of the "if it ever happens again." What is the purpose of that? Why are we waiting for another incident before we do something? It’s within the Premier’s purview to do something about this. Why isn’t he doing something about it?