Debates of May 27, 2004 (day 14)

Minister of Justice, Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 160-15(3): National Sex Offender Registry

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The biggest problem, as I understand it, is with the RCMP being ready to implement. They need to have adequate, or their system upgraded somewhat in order to be able to provide access to the system, and it is through their computer system that this system operates. So until that is done, we are at a bit of a stalemate. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 160-15(3): National Sex Offender Registry

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, Mr. Minister, for your answer. Mr. Speaker, my last question I believe at this time is will the Minister take any additional steps or actions to ensure the protection of the NWT citizens from convicted sex offenders during the delay of the implementation of this act? Is he willing to take any additional steps? Thank you.

Minister of Justice, Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 160-15(3): National Sex Offender Registry

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the issue of protection of the public is one that we take very seriously at all times. The RCMP is certainly aware of the concern and is very careful to monitor convicted sex offenders as they do normally, and as we do through the parole system. So I think that over the last few years there has been a change in the approach and it has gotten more rigorous. I think that while standards have changed, monitoring of the sex offender registry will provide one more tool that we’ll be able to have. Until the computers are updated, and there is adequate training and we have the forms in place to deliver, we will have to work on the programs that we have been working on to date. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I want to ask a question to the Minister of Transportation. Things are happening in the Sahtu, and especially in light of some recent news over the last couple of days. The community of Fort Good Hope's bridge was shut down, their bridge is falling down. The people over there are quite concerned with the situation and they have to take some extraordinary steps to ensure that transportation flows freely in Fort Good Hope. There are quite a few concerns from the people. I want to ask the Minister if he would inform the House in terms of the status of the bridge in Fort Good Hope, and what can the people of Fort Good Hope hear from the House today. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister of Transportation, Mr. McLeod.

Return To Question 161-15(3): Condition Of Fort Good Hope Bridge

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the issue with the bridge in Fort Good Hope is something we have been working on for the last couple of days. We have sent engineers into the community to do inspections, and as of today we are still looking at our options. The first one is to create a bypass around the existing bridge, and the other one is to do something more long term. Until we come to a firm decision on that issue, we continue to keep the facility closed. Thanks.

Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Supplementary To Question 161-15(3): Condition Of Fort Good Hope Bridge

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as the bridge has been closed in Fort Good Hope, it becomes quite difficult for people to travel to and from the airport of the community, and the community has gone to some creative and extraordinary measures to make sure that people come from the airport, get across the bridge hauling freight and mail, and it has caused some expenses by the community to ensure that things are taken care of in Fort Good Hope. I am going to ask the Minister how he is going to deal with the incurred costs to the community. I know that it is a concern for them, and I am not too sure how this government is going to deal with it. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister of Transportation, Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 161-15(3): Condition Of Fort Good Hope Bridge

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Right now our priorities are to ensure that there is still access to the airport, and getting the bridge repaired or a solution to some of the damage that was done to the structure. We do recognize that there are additional costs because of this issue, and we encourage the community to keep track of the costs, and we work with all of the other departments involved to see how we can accommodate some of these additional costs, unforeseen costs, that this bridge has caused. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Supplementary To Question 161-15(3): Condition Of Fort Good Hope Bridge

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you, Mr. Minister. The bridge, I understand, without having the information in front of me, is fairly new. Again, I have had enquiries about the bridge and why this has happened. Would he consider that those that are made from this type of model or the type of design that is in other communities, it may have been caused by just the erosion of the banks that are situated in Fort Good Hope? Would the Minister inform or advise us that he would look at other bridges of similar design that maybe have some similar incidences in other communities? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister of Transportation, Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 161-15(3): Condition Of Fort Good Hope Bridge

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Member is correct. The Jackfish Creek Bridge in Fort Good Hope is fairly new. It was constructed in 1995. A big concern to us is this facility has experienced a number of problems in the last little while. So we do monitor all of our infrastructure. We have regular maintenance, regular inspections. However, we will step up those inspections, especially bridges of this nature. Thank you.

Final supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Supplementary To Question 161-15(3): Condition Of Fort Good Hope Bridge

Mr. Speaker, I am glad it is called the Jackfish Bridge rather than the London Bridge. Mr. Speaker, my last question to the Minister is in terms of the environmental impacts of the erosion of the bridge, and there is some concern about the potential for environmental impacts to the river and to the jackfish. The river is used by the community during the fall and springtime. Can I ask the Minister, Mr. Speaker, for a commitment that all precautions will be looked at in terms of the potential for the environmental impacts in terms of the reconstruction or the assessment of the new bridge that may be going in to Fort Good Hope? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister of Transportation, Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 161-15(3): Condition Of Fort Good Hope Bridge

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We certainly will commit to that. The environmental concerns are always issues that we take very seriously. We also are looking at what environmental issues come about as a result of any bypass or any alternate routes that we build. So as with any other project, we would certainly keep the environmental concerns in the forefront. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Premier and it is in regard to the statement that was issued by Minister Zoe earlier in today’s proceedings. This prefaced my question, being of Maritime decent I did take quite an issue with the statements that were supposedly made that night at the Legion. It causes me a great deal of concern. Mr. Zoe, to his credit, came to see me. We had a good discussion. What I am hearing from the Premier today, Mr. Speaker, is he is confident in Mr. Zoe’s ability to not let this type of incident take place again. Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Premier if he is so confident, would he himself resign if indeed there is another incident of this magnitude because of its severity? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Premier, Mr. Handley.

Return To Question 162-15(3): Conduct Of Minister Zoe

Mr. Speaker, if there was to be another incident like this I would deal with the incident, but I don’t think resigning is the way to deal with it. But absolutely, as I told you, I will deal with it.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, just in follow-up to that, the Premier is asking the Members of this House to have confidence along with him that something like this is never going to happen again. Mr. Speaker, we all know that these kinds of issues do not go away by themselves. People struggle with these kinds of things their entire lives. This is not something that you can just wave a magic wand. It takes serious effort, serious commitment and serious work in order to overcome some of these things. We know that. So the Premier is asking us to have confidence in him, but how confident is he? He was just asked a question by Mr. Ramsay. Is he confident enough to assure us and get us on board and say let’s do this? Is he confident enough to say he’s willing to put his job on the line to convey that commitment to Mr. Zoe? Thank you.

Mr. Premier.

Return To Question 163-15(3): Premier’s Confidence In Minister Zoe

Mr. Speaker, whether I am Premier or not is a decision the House has to make here. If they are not satisfied with the actions that I take and the decisions that I make, the judgements I make, then it’s up to the House to make that decision. Mr. Speaker, if there were to be another incident like this, then let’s deal with it at that point. I have made it very clear what my position is as I have no tolerance at all for anything further. Mr. Zoe has told me that he is taking steps. He has told the Members in this House in other discussions that he is seeking help. I can’t get into exactly what that is, Mr. Speaker, but I can assure you that we are working to make sure that this does not happen again. I am going to do everything within my power and authority to make sure this does not happen, but I can’t control everything every day. I will deal with the consequences as they happen, if they happen again. I am confident by working together we can be fairly sure that this is not going to happen, but if it does, we will deal with it. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 163-15(3): Premier’s Confidence In Minister Zoe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like the Premier to spell out for me what “we’ll deal with it “means. What will he do?

Mr. Premier.

Further Return To Question 163-15(3): Premier’s Confidence In Minister Zoe

Mr. Speaker, when this incident we are talking about with Mr. Zoe came to my attention, I, within hours, sent a letter to all the Members to advise them of what had happened. I could have just talked to Mr. Zoe or written a note to him and dealt with it privately. I chose to apprise all of the Members because I thought it was serious. Mr. Speaker, I have also told the Members here that if there is an infraction of this and if Mr. Zoe doesn’t live up to his word or other Cabinet Ministers don’t live up to their word, then there is no toleration at all. In that case, I don’t have the authority to remove a Minister, but I certainly would make a recommendation to the Members that this is not acceptable and here is the course of action that I would take, which would be to recommend that the Cabinet Minister be reviewed by the assembly. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am astounded at the Premier’s willingness, given the track record here and given the circumstances; I am still baffled by the one-more-time concept. I don’t know why he would put himself in that kind of exposure. It’s a job. What Mr. Zoe does for this House is a job. We place confidence in people to do certain jobs. Amongst ourselves we say let’s give that person that job. I don’t think he’s doing Mr. Zoe any service by putting this kind of pressure on him. This is not something that somebody has within their own power to change. I think he is putting Mr. Zoe in a terrible situation. That’s a tremendous amount of pressure for somebody. I think that if Mr. Zoe really wanted treatment -- which has been brought up here today -- it would have been brought up in his statement today. I don’t think he wants to make that kind of public declaration. I would like to know if this comes to a vote in this House…When this comes to a vote in this House, which it surely will, is the Premier prepared to allow his Cabinet Ministers over there who are looking a little uncomfortable today, a free vote on this matter? Thank you.

The question is a new question from your original statement. The statement you had originally was directed to the Premier with regard to his conduct. Now you are asking about a question on a vote. So that’s a new question. Final Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 163-15(3): Premier’s Confidence In Minister Zoe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Premier in his last response, said that he immediately took action to inform the Members of what happened. Yes, he could have buried this and tried to hide it. I don’t think that would have done any good. This is a small town. It’s a small territory. I do commend the Premier and I did tell him after I received the letter, I did commend him for taking the action that he did and not ignoring the situation. However, I still fail to see why he is putting himself and his government and his Cabinet under this kind of pressure to say one more chance. Could he explain to me what is the purpose and merit of another chance? Thank you.

Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 163-15(3): Premier’s Confidence In Minister Zoe

Mr. Speaker, I can only repeat that Mr. Zoe has told me that he is taking steps to make sure that this will not happen again. He has told me that he is seeking help. I take him at his word. I believe he is a good Minister in carrying out his responsibilities. Mr Speaker, all I can say is I take his word at it. I have also assured the House that if this is happening again, I will have no tolerance at all for it. Mr. Speaker, it’s my judgement, based on the incident that this is one that deserves the action that we have taken. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 7, oral questions. Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Premier also. As I was listening to the questions and answer to the statement made by Mr. Zoe, I think the Premier is getting very close to giving misleading information if it’s not inaccurate.

That comment is unparliamentary and I would like to ask the Member to withdraw it by saying that a Member is misleading the House. Ms. Lee.

Mr. Speaker, I apologize and I would like to retract that statement. What I wanted to say is I have information from being what is being said here and what I have heard and gotten notes from the Premier, it indicates two different things. The Premier just indicated in his answers to Mrs. Groenewegen that he is confident that Mr. Zoe is seeking help. I believe that is true on the information I have. I am not saying Mr. Zoe is…The information I have from what the Premier has said to me in private, what Mr. Zoe had to say in private, that is not true. I would like to know from the Premier what evidence does he have? Why is he saying Mr. Zoe is seeking help or seeking treatment? What evidence is there? My information is that that isn’t the case at all. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Let me just get back to the basics here. As I sit here, I can’t help but notice we are engaged in a very well-known dance, a dance that happens in families when you have a family member in trouble. Somebody does something wrong and they say I am sorry, I won’t do it again. I don’t think that should be enough. I think we have to, as a body responsible for public interest and public integrity and the high standard that we must uphold, the Premier has to have that X-factor, that information that tells him that goes beyond I am sorry, I won’t do it again. So I need to hear from the Premier; maybe he knows something that I don’t know. What gives him the evidence to say Mr. Zoe is seeking help or seeking assistance or anything? That is not what he has indicated. Thank you.

Mr. Handley.

Return To Question 164-15(3): Conduct Of Minister Zoe

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Zoe has said in his statement that he is taking steps to ensure this type of incident is not repeated. Okay, that one we know. Second is that he has told the Members in this House. He hasn’t told them in this House, but he has told them in another circumstance that he is taking action, that he is seeking help. I won’t get into that detail but, again, Mr. Speaker, that may be ruled out of order. He has told all of us that. So, Mr. Speaker, I have to take his word. If Ms. Lee is asking me, and I don’t want to project things into her question, if she is asking me did Mr. Zoe say to me that he is going to completely refrain from any use of alcohol in future, then no. I don’t think that Mr. Zoe has said that, if that’s what she is asking. I have not heard that from Mr. Zoe, but he has told me he is seeking help. Thank you.

Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 164-15(3): Conduct Of Minister Zoe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. For the life of me, I don’t understand when every Member in this House knows as much as we do about what we are dealing with here, we just relieve ourselves of all our responsibilities as Premier. I don’t think we are doing anybody any favours here. We are not serving the public, we are not serving Mr. Zoe, we are not serving the Cabinet. It’s just kind of denying that there is that serious problem here and we could just deal with it by hoping that it won’t happen again. Mr. Speaker, could I ask the Premier’s commitment for him to speak to Mr. Zoe again? I don’t believe that statement says enough about taking actions to make sure that this doesn’t happen again, and I would like to ask the Premier if he would make the commitment to sit down with Mr. Zoe and ask him exactly what those steps mean. What does it mean? Does it include treatment? Does it include self-help? What does it really mean? We go back to the Members and I would also like to have a commitment from the Premier that he will seek advice from this side of the House to address this. Thank you.