Debates of May 27, 2005 (day 3)

Thank you, Madam Speaker. That is the intention. That should be happening already. I’ve asked the department to discuss this issue with Aurora College and make sure that we’re managing our cancellation policies better than what appears to be the case. That discussion will happen within the next couple of weeks. The department does often pay for apprentices to study in the South. One of the problems that we run into though is when the number of participants suddenly declines, when it’s not expected the courses can be cancelled. Right now in the North we cancel the course if we have fewer than five students. For instance, the last time the plumbers course was scheduled in Thebacha, just at the last minute two who were registered to attend dropped out, which brought the number down to three for that course, and at that point it was too late to get them into the courses that were offered in the South, and that’s what has lead to some of the problems. Knowing that that is an issue, we are going to work with the college and try and come up with a different way of managing the cancellations to try to ensure that we are able to deal with these issues in a more proactive way.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 27-15(4): Apprenticeship And Training Program Concerns

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, given the issues that he has heard about today and the issues that are out there, I know my colleagues have heard other issues related to this office, I am wondering if he could commit to doing a review of this training program. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 27-15(4): Apprenticeship And Training Program Concerns

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I will have to get more details on what he means by a review. The overall program of apprenticeship is administered by the apprenticeship board, but the operation of the offices is something that is run by the department. If the Member is asking whether or not we will review the operation of the offices, absolutely. That process has already started and will hopefully be concluded very quickly.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, my questions are also for the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment and it’s regarding the same issue as the Member for Kam Lake has raised. When I was listening to Mr. Ramsay’s statement, I thought maybe he was reading the correspondence that I received from my constituent because the stories are exactly the same. I think the Minister is aware of this issue because I have been copied a letter that was sent to him. It has to do with some young person who wants to get into an apprenticeship program to get his plumbing certificate and he’s learning that because of a lack of resources or obstacles in their office that he’s not even able to register as an apprentice this year. He has to wait until 2006 to be even registered. That would set him back another two years. In the times that we have where we don’t have enough tradespeople and where there should be more focus and where there should be more efficiency rather than obstacles, it just baffles me why this is the case. I would like to know what the Minister’s best answer is to this question.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. The honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 28-15(4): Apprenticeship And Training Program Concerns

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Having just gotten the letter the Member referred to yesterday, I don’t have an answer as to the specifics. I say, as I did to Mr. Ramsay, that we have added staff in the North Slave office. We are continuing to review the operations of that office. If there are some problems, then they will be dealt with. I agree with the Member that the goal here is to get as many young people here involved in apprenticeship as possible. It offers young people today one of the best opportunities or a career in the future in the North. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 28-15(4): Apprenticeship And Training Program Concerns

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Let me say, to be fair, that there is a lot of good work being done with this program. I have attended many graduation ceremonies for this program where we have produced lots of tradespeople. It appears though that we are not doing as well as we should be doing. I understand that the Minister is going to look into this, but just like the basic level of services that I was talking about in my Member’s statement, I wonder if the Minister could set a basic minimum rule that when someone wants to be registered as an apprentice in the North that they shouldn’t have to wait for more than one school year. Is it not a doable goal or policy that the Minister could make? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 28-15(4): Apprenticeship And Training Program Concerns

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would think that that would be a very reasonable rule to have and I would expect that our goal is much less than one year right now. I don’t know the specifics of the complaint, having only gotten it yesterday; I don’t know the instances around other circumstances that may be involved. There may be, as I mentioned to Mr. Ramsay, circumstances where you wind up in training courses. Last minute cancellations impact on a number of people and that happens not only here, but in Alberta. In Alberta, they cancel courses as well if they have a number of people drop out just before they start. So that can cause the cancellation for people to attend courses down south, even when we have been prepared to put people there. So in terms of the registration, I will have to follow up on the specifics of the case and find out why it has taken so long. I would agree with the Member that it should be absolutely no more than one year. I believe that our goal is much less than that already.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 28-15(4): Apprenticeship And Training Program Concerns

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Given the situation we are dealing with here and there seems to be numerous situations here of similar cases that obviously these goals are not being met, and the case I am talking about is a person who has studied his program in 2004 and he is expected to finish this year but he cannot register until next year. I can understand cancellations happening and such, but would the Minister look into guaranteeing that whoever is registered for an apprenticeship program, even if there are three or four students, that the courses continue? You cannot hold back people’s careers and lives for a year or two. These people don’t get full salaries and there are lots of inconveniencies in that way. So if we can’t hold the programs in Fort Smith because of a lack of enrollment, would the Minister consider sending them to southern locations so they can continue on with their education? Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 28-15(4): Apprenticeship And Training Program Concerns

Thank you, Madam Speaker. In fact, we already do. If we can’t get people into Fort Smith, we are prepared to support them travelling to Alberta. If the course doesn’t have enough numbers in Fort Smith, we are prepared to support people travelling to Alberta. The problem we have is we can’t always get people into those courses in Alberta either. There is a substantial waiting time to register for those courses. So it’s not something we can do on a moment’s notice. There has to be a lot of coordination between the employer, the apprentice, and the apprenticeship office in terms of the scheduling. As I said, the department is meeting with the college in the next few weeks to talk about course cancellations to find ways to deal with that issue to try to encourage people to participate.

You know, by and large, the program has been extremely successful. In the Territories, we have the highest per capita participation rate of apprenticeship of any jurisdiction in Canada. So the program is being very successful. We are getting an awful lot of people through. Since our program started, we have had over 4,500 people who have graduated with journey certification. We have had a tremendous amount of success.

I am hoping that what has been identified by the two Members are individual issues that don’t represent what is happening in the system, but I have started an investigation to ascertain whether that’s the case. If this is a problem that goes deeper than the two circumstances, then it will be dealt with. You have my word on that.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Final supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 28-15(4): Apprenticeship And Training Program Concerns

Thank you, Madam Speaker. We are aware of the fact that this session is only going to go until next Thursday. I do want to give the Minister time to respond to this, but could I get him to commit to giving us the information back and responding to these correspondences before the end of session? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 28-15(4): Apprenticeship And Training Program Concerns

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I will do my utmost to try to achieve that.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question today is for the Minister of Transportation. Just yesterday I went to the Deh Cho First Nation meeting in Fort Liard. The second sentence, after how are you, was when will you fix this road, meaning Highway No. 7 from Fort Simpson to Fort Liard. They also indicated that you should have driven that so you know what we are talking about. Indeed, I can assure my constituents, Madam Chair, that last week I did have the experience of driving to and from Fort Liard. My question to the Minister is constituents have been telling Transportation verbally and in writing about the condition of the road. Why have there been no repairs or improvements made to Highway No. 7 in the past month, Madam Chair? Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The honourable Minister of Transportation, Mr. McLeod.

Return To Question 29-15(4): Condition Of Highway No. 7

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, there is a period of time between winter and summer, it’s called spring…

---Laughter

…when we have difficulty to provide any type of meaningful maintenance on our roads, be it chipseal or gravel. There is a period of time that we need to allow our roads to thaw. We have recognized the increased level of traffic on all our roads in the NWT. We have concerns being raised by people across the Northwest Territories on our gravel roads and on our roads that are chipsealed; however, we need to be able to do our repairs when the roads are thawed. We have looked into the situation where concerns have come from; the Deh Cho communities on Highway No. 7. We have done an inspection just last week and we have instructed our contract crews to start doing repairs. We should also point out that we are continuing to improve Highway No. 7. We have committed to spend over $4 million on that section of road to try to deal with the level of traffic and to increase the upkeep of the road and do some major reconstruction on some of the bridges and some sections of that road to improve it. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Supplementary To Question 29-15(4): Condition Of Highway No. 7

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I just wanted to indicate to the honourable Minister that when constituents lodge formal complaints, be it verbal or written, the department should be responsive to them and indicate what they are actually going to do about the ruts in the road that they are concerned about. Mostly it’s a safety factor, Madam Chair. As well, I do have to concur with the Minister that we found some extra money for Highway No. 7 to upgrade and improve it. But, Madam Speaker, when will the department start spending that money we have? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 29-15(4): Condition Of Highway No. 7

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I apologize to the Member if any complaints that have come forward have not been responded to, and I would certainly like to speak with the Member to see where those complaints are coming from and who it was addressed to. We make every effort to respond to all issues that are brought forward, be it from headquarters or the region. We will contact our staff to see if any complaints have come forward that we haven’t dealt with. As to when we will start spending money on Highway No. 7, Madam Speaker, I am pleased to inform the House that we started spending money on Highway No. 7 two years ago. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Supplementary To Question 29-15(4): Condition Of Highway No. 7

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Minister indicates that there has been work on Highway No. 7 and I have to reiterate a word I learned earlier in the week, it’s woefully inadequate, Madam Speaker.

Woefully!

So I think the plan here is if the Minister can indicate to his department about the communities and tell them about this plan, because it’s just not apparent and people aren’t seeing anything done. If the Minister can indicate to the communities about what that plan is, that would be appreciated. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 29-15(4): Condition Of Highway No. 7

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I will certainly take the Member’s advice. We will commit to have our staff go into the communities to meet with the community leaders and present what our plans are. I should point out, in some cases a lot of the work that’s being done that is requiring some investment and some expenditure is hard to see physically because some of it is in design, some of it is in stockpiling the gravel, and some of it is in restructuring plans. We will certainly take that as direction to go to the communities in the Deh Cho and present those future plans. Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I wish I had questions for the Minister of Transportation today because I also have driven the soupy cow trail, also referred to as Highway No. 7. Fortunately, the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation will have the pleasure of my questions today, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, yesterday and today I talked about the $72,000 payment for down payment assistance, as well as a $109,000 payment. My concern is the pot is drying up very quickly with the enormous, outrageous payments to one or two clients out there that, as far as I am concerned, aren’t connected to any type of reality other than trying to get as big of a payment as possible while we are missing out on helping families. Only 14 families were helped last year. Did we turn any approved applications away last year because the pot had dried up? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation, Mr. Krutko.

Return To Question 30-15(4): Expanded Downpayment Assistance Program

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, we have, because there are certain responsibilities individuals have. Sure, you can put an application in, but it’s approved based on certain conditions. You have to be able to acquire a mortgage from a bank. You have to go to a financial institution. You have to identify exactly what your income threshold is and make sure you can afford to pay down the mortgage. Last, but not least, it’s conditional that you obtain financing through a bank before we go forward with the application. There is also a 90-day time period where you have to ensure that you go through that process in the 90 days, have all the information provided to the Housing Corporation, and maintain a mortgage which is guaranteed through a bank. So there are conditions that you have to meet and if you do not meet those conditions, your application is pulled. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Everyone is doing really well this morning. I have only been called Mr. Speaker twice, but I noticed Mr. Hawkins and Mr. Krutko have referred to me as Madam Chair. For the record, we are in the formal sitting of the chamber and Madam Speaker would be more appropriate.

---Laughter

Supplementary To Question 30-15(4): Expanded Downpayment Assistance Program

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Humblest apologies, Madam Speaker, humblest apologies. Madam Speaker, I think the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation gave me an excellent answer to a question I really hope to ask one of these days, because it was a very qualitative answer. The question was, clearly, if someone was approved of the financing, approved of the waiting period, approved of everything, that great answer that was said by the Minister. Were any applications returned because the funding pot had dried up? I am referring to only approved applications. Were any returned because of no money? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 30-15(4): Expanded Downpayment Assistance Program

Madam Chair, like I stated…Sorry, Madam Speaker. Like I stated, there is a budget that we do operate out of. In last year’s budget, we allocated almost $2.2 million and out of that we approved 42 applications. The program is universal right across the Northwest Territories, not only in Yellowknife. We have allocated $1 million this year for the city of Yellowknife for this program. It’s based on the number of applications you get and the amount of money in the budget. So you approve the budget through this process and you can help only so many people with the resources you have. So on that basis, people will be turned down if there is no more money in the program.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 30-15(4): Expanded Downpayment Assistance Program

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I think we were really close to an answer that time. We heard “will be turned down,” but we didn’t hear “were turned down.” So, Madam Speaker, were any applications turned down, yes or no, because of lack of funding? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 30-15(4): Expanded Downpayment Assistance Program

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Yes.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Final supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 30-15(4): Expanded Downpayment Assistance Program

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I want to thank the Minister for that efficient reply. Now I will ask the fine Minister the detailed question, which was how many applications were turned down? If we turned down one, that is a travesty. So how many applications did we turn away at the door because the funding pot had dried up with us giving away outrageous payments of $50,000 plus, $60,000 plus, $72,000 plus? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 30-15(4): Expanded Downpayment Assistance Program