Debates of May 28, 2004 (day 15)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will certainly discuss this further with the Member. It is my impression that we do offer that kind of support, if it's necessary, right now. If the Member has examples where he feels we are not following through, I would like to hear about them. So I will commit to discussing with the Member his recommendation and we'll take it from there. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are for the Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, also the Minister responsible for the BCC and the Dev Corp. During the life of the last government, the issue and initiative concerning the amalgamation of these two arms of this government was front and centre. In the last six months, much talk took place in the House with regard to the development and the BDIC initiative. I'm just wondering, Mr. Speaker, why there has been a delay in the department giving this legislature an update on where this initiative is at. In the last six months when you mention the word BDIC you can hear a pin drop. There just hasn't been any information forthcoming from the government and I'm just wondering where it is at. Thank you.

Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Bell.

Return To Question 170-15(3): Business Development Investment Corporation

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I assure the Member we're not and I'm not potentially trying to withhold information from the Members. The Member is certainly right; within the life of the last assembly, at the end of the last assembly there was a legislative proposal and a bill drafted. There was insufficient time, unfortunately, for introduction and passage in the 14th Assembly. That does not mean that this discussion and this initiative about the need to better rationalize our resources in terms of how we deliver economic development programs and services is dead. We had the common ground strategy which talked about the need to do this. We had a business program review committee that made some recommendations. Those have been endorsed by a bankers' commission. So we are in discussions about those issues.

The delay, Mr. Speaker, has really been due to the fact that we've been tasked with analyzing and discussing potential reorganization options for the entire department. I have described them as being on a continuum. But it's all about most effective program and service delivery and what model will provide that. So we will come forward with that analysis, and really felt it was premature to talk about the BDIC or any other program delivery agency in isolation without this broader review. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 170-15(3): Business Development Investment Corporation

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister makes light of service delivery and ease of service for clients, and I'm just wondering during the life of the last government there was much discussion with regard to the location of the BDIC offices. I know the community of Hay River, and I am a champion of the town of Hay River and what they're trying to do there, but now they're referring to the town of Hay River as the business capital of the Northwest Territories, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister what he will do to ensure that this important role and function of government stays in the capital city where there are accountants, there are many lawyers, banks and services to cater to business needs of this territory. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister of RWED, Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 170-15(3): Business Development Investment Corporation

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am sure that if I get Cabinet support for a single agency, and I would indicate, Mr. Speaker, I still have to go forward to Cabinet with a proposal and receive an endorsement of that proposal prior to coming forward to committee, but if and when that happens, I am hoping that we can do something very quickly here. If and when that happens we will have, no doubt, a very good and I am sure heated exchange at the committee level about potential locations for a new agency. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 170-15(3): Business Development Investment Corporation

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I find it hard to believe that we're even considering potential locations for the new entity of BDIC. I think it belongs in one place, and that's in the city of Yellowknife. I'm just wondering --and I know my colleague, Mr. Braden, was speaking to this earlier in terms of getting information from the BCC and the current legislation making it impossible for an MLA to find out where the funds are being invested -- who is getting what money, under what terms and conditions. I'm wondering if the Minister believes that we can get some movement or a shift from this current practice of keeping the information secret, to a more full disclosure of accounting through the entity and if that's going to be part of this proposal that we'll be seeing hopefully soon, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Minister of RWED, Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 170-15(3): Business Development Investment Corporation

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It's difficult for me, without the Cabinet endorsement of said proposal, to theoretically discuss and indicate exactly what that will include. No doubt, it will include a range of options and a range of suggestions. We have had some discussion in the past about our legislation being as open as possible, as transparent as possible. I have no doubt that that discussion will take place again and we will have that committee. Certainly I will indicate to the Members on the other side of the House that I will take their recommendations in this regard very seriously. So if it's important to them, I would suggest that it would be important to the government. Thank you.

Final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 170-15(3): Business Development Investment Corporation

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm just wondering when might the regular Members and the Governance and Economic Development committee, in particular, be able to receive a full and updated information package from the Minister with regard to the BDIC initiative. Thank you.

Minister of RWED, Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 170-15(3): Business Development Investment Corporation

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In the next couple of weeks I will be before Cabinet and be making a presentation to Cabinet. Assuming endorsement of that presentation and assuming there aren't significant changes, I will very quickly then be able to come to committee. We will work with the Clerk's office to schedule something as soon as possible. I appreciate that summer is coming and it will be more and more difficult to get Members together, so I understand the urgency and will move quickly on this. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. During oral question period yesterday I made a request of the Minister of RWED to consider reallocating the $15,000 towards the community freezer of Paulatuk for the 2004-05 season. Once again, I may sound like a running record, Mr. Speaker. With the warm weather fast approaching and the concern the residents of Paulatuk have for the storage of their subsistence food and because of my persistence to continue this important issue for the residents of Paulatuk, my question is for the Honourable Brendan Bell, Minister of RWED. Will he consult with his department and Cabinet to provide the appropriate funds for the O and M for the Paulatuk community freezer for the spring and summer of 2004-05? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister of RWED, Mr. Bell.

Return To Question 171-15(3): Community Freezer Needs In Paulatuk

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I assure the Member that I don't consider his questioning a running record. I understand that this is very important to his community. He has made that point abundantly clear to me and to the public, I believe. I also understand the urgency and understand the cultural implications here and the willingness to not be seen to be wasting any meat in the community. I appreciate that and respect that. Last night, after the discussion in the House, I asked the department to sit down and come up with a proposed solution to this. What we're prepared to do, Mr. Speaker, is to fund the operation of this freezer for the upcoming season. We don't want to see any delay, we don't want to see any meat wasted. This would be the last season though, Mr. Speaker. I would also like to get the Member's acceptance that if we fund the operation of this freezer for this season, that we also agree that in following seasons we'll move to having people have chest freezers in their homes. If the Member is amendable to that solution, I think we need to get moving quickly so that those freezers can make the barge this season and that there be no interruption of service delivery. So I'm hopeful that that will be an acceptable solution to the Member, and maybe he can indicate if that's the case. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Pokiak.

Supplementary To Question 171-15(3): Community Freezer Needs In Paulatuk

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Thank you very much to the Minister for providing funds for 2004-2005. However, I will consult with my constituents in Paulatuk with regard to upcoming years. I will do that once I get back to Paulatuk during our tour. I would just like to say again thank you to the Minister for providing funds for the 2004-2005 season. Again, we will work with the community. Thank you.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. As I had stated in my Member's statement today with regard to the six or eight clients that the NWT sends down to an institution called the Aboriginal Partners and Youth Society in Edmonton which currently houses and treats our northern persons with developmental disabilities, I just wanted to ask the Minister of Health and Social Services whether looking at this report which was developed by the Office of the Public Guardian, which is the public guardian for the five disabled persons residing in the group homes and also we have six adult clients who are housed in the same residence. In the document, there are several interviews which were conducted with professionals involved, supporting the individuals served by the agency and represented by the Office of the Public Guardian. Responses focussed on the impact or the difference in progress toward treatment, goals and assessment or risk, and general comments and observations about the agency. Mr. Speaker, a lot of the interviews are with certified psychiatrists and psychologists such as, Mr. Speaker, Dr. Oto Cadsky, a psychiatrist who has been working with the institution for the past three years. He says one of his clients has fewer problems and critical incidents since being with this agency and has been making excellent progress since he started to receive services through APYS. He also remarks that he did not have any concerns regarding the allegations of inconsistencies in administering medication and that if his client is moved at this time or if any other major changes are made, he will go nuts.

Another interview with Dr. Dale Parr, another psychologist who has been working for APYS for a number of years, feels that the environment and individuals are clean and well taken care of. I want to ask the Minister of Health how his department is going to deal with the fact that six of the clients that were scheduled to be moved yesterday and had an interview with the CEO of the Edmonton board of the Persons with Developmental Disabilities and a representative from the Department of Health and Social Services, how the Department of Health and Social services will deal with these six clients who are refusing to leave this agency and how will they be taken care of. Thank you.

Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Return To Question 172-15(3): Treatment Of Clients With Developmental Disabilities

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I indicated in the House yesterday, integrated services and housing is available with all the other professional supports that are required. We have meetings today with the individual clients, outside of the glare and pressure cooker intensity of group meetings, but we have been approached. They were talking to clients on an individual basis. So I am confident that as this issue moves through its transition phase that we will be able to make sure that all the clients we have down there are successfully integrated into the alternate placements that have been found for them.

Supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Supplementary To Question 172-15(3): Treatment Of Clients With Developmental Disabilities

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just wanted to ask the Minister again whether the individual interviews take place, or whether it’s in a group interview with the CEO and the representative from the Department of Health and Social Services. I have been assured that these clients will not be moving anywhere, Mr. Speaker, and that they refuse to go to any other institution, especially an institution which they have been removed from because of abuse and mistreatment. How is the Department of Health and Social Services going to ensure that these clients who do not want to move out of this institution are going to be adequately treated and taken care of? Thank you.

Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 172-15(3): Treatment Of Clients With Developmental Disabilities

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we are the last funding agency left with APYS as far as we know. The Nunavut government and the Alberta government have taken steps to relocate their clients for the issues that have been discussed for some time now. Mr. Speaker, we have arranged alternate placements. At the end of the day, as adults, if they refuse to move, we will work with them to ensure that they are connected to Alberta Health and Social Services, that they take advantage of the services that are available within the city and provided by the Alberta government. We will also be retaining the space in the integrated services for these clients to come in and take advantage of the services that are there waiting for them.

Supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Supplementary To Question 172-15(3): Treatment Of Clients With Developmental Disabilities

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am not sure what the Minister was referring to, but I don’t think he has really answered my question as to how the Government of the Northwest Territories is planning on abandoning these clients and leaving them at the disposal of the city of Edmonton and the services that they provide. How can the Minister tell these people that the government who supported them for the last 10 years in numerous institutions is now suddenly pulling the rug out from underneath an agency which has provided them with a very improved quality of life resulting in reduced risk behaviours? I am quoting Mr. Paul Kohl, which is the Office of the Public Guardian. How can the government sit back and say they are just going to have to go to the city of Edmonton and take advantage of the services available to them and we will just keep track of what they are doing? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 172-15(3): Treatment Of Clients With Developmental Disabilities

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, let me be as clear as I can on this issue. We are not abandoning anybody. We have made all the appropriate arrangements. We have had staff down there for the last few weeks trying to work through this transition. The reality is, at the end of the day, APYS has to get its house in order with the Alberta government so they are duly licensed and they comply with all the other hearings where they have to, and at which time we will consider doing business with them. Until that is done, we have an obligation to ensure that the people from the North are given assurance of the highest quality of service that we can get, that standards are met, that they have all the due licensing and other permits they need to do the business that they are in. So that is what we have done. We are being very diligent about this. We are putting many resources to this. My hope was that APYS would do the work necessary to get its house in order with the Alberta government. Thank you.

Final Supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Supplementary To Question 172-15(3): Treatment Of Clients With Developmental Disabilities

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. With reference to getting their house in order with the Alberta government, I think APYS is finding it very difficult to get their house in order when they are dealing with a CEO of the Edmonton board of Persons with Developmental Disabilities that couldn’t provide any real substantial reason as to why he was refusing APYS certification to deliver the agency’s programs to the clients and to the staff at yesterday’s meeting. He refused to answer any questions as to why the Edmonton board of Persons with Developmental Disabilities was refusing the agency’s certification and would not answer any questions relating to that. So I am just wondering why the Minister is basing our decision to relocate and put undue stress on a lot of clients and families on a decision by someone who may have a personal vendetta or be biased towards aboriginal organizations in general and not take the interviews with certified doctors, staff and clients’ feedback on the agency’s programming and success. Why are we saying one guy’s refusal to certify an agency is the basis for refusing proper treatment to NWT clients? Thank you.

Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 172-15(3): Treatment Of Clients With Developmental Disabilities

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Member has made a number of allegations against some of the officials in Edmonton that work for government. Mr. Speaker, we are a contracting body that are buying a service. We have certain obligations. It is not our role to get involved in the disagreements and the internal wranglings and differences between APYS and the Alberta government and whatever other agencies are in Alberta. It’s an Alberta run operation that runs out of Edmonton. They have to comply with the laws of the land, the standards of the land, and their obligation was to do that. We are looking after the residents of the Northwest Territories. We are committed to buying that service and ensuring that they are put into facilities that meet the basic standards so that we can contract in confidence, knowing that their needs will be met. APYS has their obligation to sort things out. I am not in a position to comment or determine what caused the breakdown between APYS and the Alberta government. It has happened. It has caused the situation we are in today and we have been doing our best to respond in the most constructive way possible. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question today is for the Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation. This morning I raised a very important question to the Minister of RWED with regard to the impacts the industry will have on the Government of the Northwest Territories. Mr. Speaker, transitional housing and homelessness is one of the major social programs that will be impacted. The Member stated that he will work with other departments to try to mitigate those impacts. Also in the 14th Assembly, we worked very closely with several proponents to try to eradicate the high cost of delivering housing to NWT residents and one of the areas was to try to pay the premiums on the development of housing, which would be a turnover to the Government of the Northwest Territories completion of the Mackenzie Valley pipeline. I would like to ask the Minister this morning what the status report is on whether he has followed up on this initiative. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation, Mr. McLeod.

Return To Question 173-15(3): Impacts On Social Housing In The North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the issue of homelessness is a very large, broad issue across the board. We share responsibility through a number of different departments, including ECE, Health and the Housing Corporation. We have set up a social Ministers’ committee to work more as a team, to talk about the issues that we have across the North. We also have a Minister responsible for homelessness. Having said that, the NWT Housing Corporation plays a large role when it comes to addressing homelessness. There are two categories as part of that definition: the relative homelessness and the absolute homelessness. We certainly have a number of people who can be defined as relative homeless across the North. Most of the people who are in our social housing programs fit that definition. We continue to make housing more available. Our goal is to follow through with a number of the initiatives that were started in the 14th Assembly and to meet all the challenges that are being placed in front of us, such as declining funding from CMHC and also the current Government of the Northwest Territories fiscal situation. So we have huge challenges. We have industry that is developing across the North. We are looking at pipeline projects. We are doing analysis. We are just currently packaging up our core needs assessment for 2004. We will be making that information known and will set our government direction based on that information. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary, Mr. Allen.

Supplementary To Question 173-15(3): Impacts On Social Housing In The North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think I memorized that line as well, but my question is in the context of social impacts on residents of the Northwest Territories brought on by industry, diamond mining, oil and gas. Mr. Speaker, it’s in the context of affordability. I was glad to see the Minister has afforded the initiative for removing the BIP for economic housing. Precisely what kind of mitigation is the Minister prepared to do to ensure the continuation of the liaison between the proponents, and is he willing to give the residents of the Northwest Territories affordable housing once projects are completed and once his department would like to entertain in terms of the redesign and also the engineering of those homes so they can be moved from a camp setting to the community at a reduced cost to those who are prepared to buy those units? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation, Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 173-15(3): Impacts On Social Housing In The North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess there are a number of different questions that the Member raised. Mr. Speaker, we have programs in place. We are looking at affordable housing. Our strategy is still there and is continuing from the 14th Assembly. We still provide funding to developers. We have our corporate loan guarantees. We also provide our social programs. In terms of what we are doing for converting, I think the word the Member used was economic projects and using those facilities; we have not developed that any further. It’s not something we are currently looking at. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary, Mr. Allen.

Supplementary To Question 173-15(3): Impacts On Social Housing In The North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think that was one of the very few initiatives that had potential for NWT residents in terms of affordability. It also had merit in the sense that the costs would be reduced. I am going to ask the Minister again if he is prepared to re-enter into those forms of negotiations and discussions with those proponents that will see affordable housing delivered to the people of the Northwest Territories outside of existing programs? Thank you.

Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation, Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 173-15(3): Impacts On Social Housing In The North