Debates of May 31, 2004 (day 16)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I think that everyone is pretty aware that there is not enough funding that goes to the education authorities to deal with special needs. With the number of students who require that sort of attention, I think those resources are already spread very, very thin. So to say that the funding is there, might be somewhat…Well, it doesn’t solve my problems. I have more than one student in Hay River right now who is not able to attend the regular school system, and I don’t blame the teachers or the principal for suspending these children if it is disruptive to the education of the other children. However, the Minister made a reference in his comments to the statutory or mandatory obligation of this government to provide an education to every child. That being said, if there aren’t enough funds for special needs, would it be possible for students or schools to make application on behalf of students for additional special funding because the special needs funding in the programs now is not sufficient? Thank you.

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 178-15(3): Students Suspended From School

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, since 1999-2000 to this year, the amount of funding that has been provided to divisional educational councils to fund programs for children with special needs has gone from just over $6 million to over $16 million. So there has been a pretty dramatic growth in the amount of funding in the past four years. It has more than doubled. That I think indicates that there has been some commitment on the part of this legislature to provide funds, and I guess what we are going to have to find out in the next little while is whether or not that increase has been adequate. If it isn’t, as the Member is suggesting, then as a legislature we are going to be challenged to try and deal with that. I would think though that with the kind of growth that we’ve seen in the last four years in special needs funding, that the money should be there, and we are going to have to try and work with the DECs and DEAs to find out how they are responding, and see if there aren’t ways in which we can help them to make sure that the funding is being used properly. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 178-15(3): Students Suspended From School

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I’d like to ask the Minister if there are any, outside of the mainstream, classroom support available for students with behaviour problems any place else in the Territories. Specifically, are there alternative education opportunities for children in Yellowknife who have behavioural problems, which preclude them from participating in a mainstream classroom in the public schools? Thank you.

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 178-15(3): Students Suspended From School

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m not sure. I guess it depends on the nature of the behavioural problems. I suppose, for instance, that a territorial treatment centre might be a facility that could be used for situations like that. But again, without knowing the specifics of the behaviour issues, it's hard to know. It may help the Member to know that I have advised the DEC Chairs that by this fall I will issue a directive that will stipulate what is acceptable use for the funds that are provided to deal with special needs. I am not certain that the school support funding has been spent appropriately in the past, and I am planning to issue a directive by this fall, which will stipulate just what services are acceptable for inclusion under that $16 million that I’ve been talking about. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 178-15(3): Students Suspended From School

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my final question to the Minister then is in terms of my response to my constituents who have children under the age of 16 who are not able to attend school because they have been suspended for long periods of time. Would it be appropriate to tell those constituents that this government recognizes its obligation to educate these students, and that there will be either some financing or opportunity made available to them just to realize an education? Thank you.

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 178-15(3): Students Suspended From School

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am not sure that the Member can trace it exactly the way that she did, but I would agree with her that this government does recognize its obligation to provide an education to children. I think that what I have been saying is that we believe we are providing the funds to the DEC, and through them to the DEA. If there is a problem, that needs to be addressed at the local level, and the department may need to work with the DEC and the DEA to make sure that the solution is found. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am going to remain consistent with my Member’s statement. I am going to ask the Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation if the NWT Housing Corporation is still actively involved in the development of a mortgage investment corporation as part of Cabinet’s overall strategy for the 15th Assembly? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, Mr. McLeod.

Return To Question 179-15(3): Mortgage Investment Corporation

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, our current programs are already providing the mortgage and lending requirements for the people of the North, and we are quite satisfied our programs are working. We are not looking at setting up an arm's length organization at this time. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Allen.

Supplementary To Question 179-15(3): Mortgage Investment Corporation

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Then would the Minister kindly advise this House if $18.3 million in new program monies will be made available to the developers and other people in pursuit of housing? Thank you.

Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 179-15(3): Mortgage Investment Corporation

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Housing Corporation currently provides lending and corporate assistance through an allowance under the NWT Housing Corporation Act. We provide personal loan guarantees, corporate loan guarantees, and in some cases construction of bridge financing. Our lending ceiling on that pot is at $30 million. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary, Mr. Allen.

Supplementary To Question 179-15(3): Mortgage Investment Corporation

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Recognizing then if there is that level of expenditure by this government on new housing developments, can I ask the Minister why is it that affordable rental housing program monies was reprofiled to the independent housing program? Thank you.

Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 179-15(3): Mortgage Investment Corporation

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, our affordable housing program receives $7.5 million, 1.1 percent of the government’s budget of $320 million, which was announced some time ago. This program was started in 2002-2003, and our investment under this program is geared towards the independent housing program, or the IHP, and also our public housing units. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Final supplementary, Mr. Allen.

Supplementary To Question 179-15(3): Mortgage Investment Corporation

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There are certain legal instruments that are required under the covenants of any agreement. I won’t go into any detail, but I just want to ask the Minister if he feels that a MIC is more applicable to the economic reforms than a social policy reform? So if he can make comment to that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 179-15(3): Mortgage Investment Corporation

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have not had the opportunity to do an evaluation on a MIC or the housing programs and compare which is more applicable. Right now we have programs that are geared towards social housing, we have programs that are geared towards home ownership, we have programs that are geared towards lending and providing mortgages. All these programs are very important. We are not putting any priority on any one given area. So I believe we will continue to provide those programs, and then make them available to all the residents in the NWT. Thank you.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. As I was just talking about earlier in my Member’s statement, I just wanted to go back to the Honourable Michael Miltenberger’s statement in last week's session on the treatment of the clients with developmental disabilities. I feel that when the honourable Member stated that is not our role to get involved in disagreements in the internal wranglings and differences between institutions and the Alberta government, and whatever other agencies are in Alberta, I believe that statement is not in compliance with the government policy. I think it is our role, Mr. Speaker, to be directly involved with any wranglings or differences between any institution which this government pays $1 million plus per year in ensuring that NWT clients are well taken care of, whether they are in Alberta or any other jurisdiction. Mr. Speaker, I just want to make reference to a letter I also received from the Minister, which states that several program audits are in various phases of completion, and we are awaiting final reports to base any decisions on the relocation of our clients. I just wanted to ask the Minister of Health and Social Services if the Office of the Public Guardian’s report, which is dated April 20, 2004, prior to the letter of May 7th that was sent to me, whether this report has been taken into consideration when the decision to remove the clients was being made? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Return To Question 180-15(3): Treatment Of Persons With Developmental Disabilities

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as a government we do have an obligation to ensure that the services that we purchase, that the clients that we place in other jurisdictions are adequately cared for within that jurisdiction, that their safety and well being is protected, and we’ve taken steps to do that. When we considered the decisions we made, we looked at all the information that was there available. We have had staff down there for a number of weeks, we have been working with the Alberta government, the Public Guardian’s Office, and when the decision was made it was based on all the information that I had before me at the time, including all the reports from the various parties. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Supplementary To Question 180-15(3): Treatment Of Persons With Developmental Disabilities

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just want to go back to the letter. There is another point in the letter that basically the Minister stated that no further action is planned until the various allegations on APYS have been thoroughly investigated. I just want to ask the Minister if there are any other reports with regard to the allegations and whether they have been completed. In particular, a report from the Alberta Association of Rehab Centres, and if that report is available if I can receive a copy, because the only one that I got is the Office of the Public Guardian’s, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 180-15(3): Treatment Of Persons With Developmental Disabilities

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I’m prepared to share with the Members on a confidential basis the reports that we have. I am respecting the client confidentiality, and I would be happy to set up an opportunity to do that. There is an extensive stack, and I would be happy to do that, or at the very least I could share a relatively detailed summary that we also have available that outlines the various issues, the compliance questions, the service issues, and the monetary fiscal questions that have been raised. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Supplementary To Question 180-15(3): Treatment Of Persons With Developmental Disabilities

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am not sure whether all the facts in the case of the nine clients in Alberta have all been analyzed and are really known at this point, because we are having a lot of different stories coming out of the APYS version, and the Office of the Public Guardian in regard to their report, which probably gives APYS a pretty good grade in their standards and proper care of these clients. I was just wondering if any weight was given to the Office of the Public Guardian’s report in the Minister’s decision to ask and request the relocation of our NWT clients. Thank you.

Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 180-15(3): Treatment Of Persons With Developmental Disabilities

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in my opinion we gave appropriate consideration to all the people involved in all of the organizations and institutions involved in this particular issue, and it has been a relatively fluid situation and some things have possibly been overtaken by events. But at the end of the day, Mr. Speaker, Nunavut, as I indicated, pulled their clients in March, the Alberta government as well pulled their clients. Our obligation is to ensure that the safety and service that we were buying, and the safety of our clients was ensured, and we’ve taken steps to do that, but we did give due consideration to the very many pieces of documentation provided by the various players. Thank you.

Final supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Supplementary To Question 180-15(3): Treatment Of Persons With Developmental Disabilities

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just for clarification for the House, I know that the Nunavut government did pull their clients, and that these clients are being relocated to an institution which this government had previously pulled all the clients out of before they all went to APYS. I just want to make a note on this Office of the Public Guardian’s professional’s comments in one of the final summaries of his report where it says information represented by professionals involved with the agency and individuals represented by the Office of the Public Guardian do not support a conclusion that these clients were at imminent risk. In fact, they clearly identify that these individuals have made substantial progress since moving to these programs. This does not suggest that there are not areas of practice training procedures or processes that could not be improved, it would suggest instead that there are strengths in the agency programming and practices that have benefited clients and need to be considered. I just want to ask the Minister if he did consider any of these professional opinions with regard to the well being and the improvement of the lives of our persons with developmental disabilities in Alberta, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 180-15(3): Treatment Of Persons With Developmental Disabilities

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we did consider that. We also considered the fact that there is a host of other significant other related information tied into compliance and monetary issues, as well as some program issues. We recognize that clearly there was strong support for the program by clients, and that some of the professionals involved in the day-to-day work with clients spoke highly of the programming work that was being done there. But the reality for us, Mr. Speaker, is that there are other issues and variables that have significant bearing as well on the situation, which were significant determinants in the final decision that was made. Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, thank you very much. My question is for the Minister responsible for the Power Corporation, as well as the Premier. In the face of rapidly rising fuel prices, does the government have any plans to alleviate the unfair and disproportionate burden being placed on NWT residents who live in smaller communities where electricity is supplied by diesel generators? Thank you.

Minister responsible for the Power Corporation, Mr. Premier, Mr. Handley.

Return To Question 181-15(3): Rising Fuel Prices And Power Rates

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Certainly we are monitoring what is happening with fuel prices. I might also mention, Mr. Speaker, that throughout the North in the communities with diesel powered generators, we do have a power stabilization program in place that ensures that customers are not subject to the rise and fall of prices on a continual basis. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Supplementary To Question 181-15(3): Rising Fuel Prices And Power Rates

Mr. Speaker, I am glad the government is recognizing that rising fuel prices will affect elders on fixed incomes more than other people. Does the government have plans to introduce power subsidies for the elders, like existing fuel subsidies with regard to power rate prices? Thank you.

Premier, Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 181-15(3): Rising Fuel Prices And Power Rates