Debates of May 31, 2005 (day 5)

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 51-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre School Program

Thank you, Madam Speaker. It wasn't an issue that was brought to the Cabinet table by Education, Culture and Employment. It was a proposal by the Minister of Health and Social Services. However, I would say Education, Culture and Employment is prepared to ensure the children, no matter which community they are located in, receive the appropriate services. When I talked about the money, I was talking about making sure that we had the money to pay the salaries of the people that would be required to provide those services. That will follow the children.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Shorter supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 51-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre School Program

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Short supplementary. I would like to think that when Cabinet Ministers look at transferring a program like this they would work with more information than just transfer this. I like to think that the Education Minister would have brought to the table what it would mean to the kids there, because obviously the Cabinet and the government are the caretakers. I would like to know what information, if any, has he got thus far about what kind of education program these students will be needing. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 51-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre School Program

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The education programs are delivered in the Northwest Territories by divisional education councils. They are funded to deliver that program. In this case, the appropriate divisional education council will be funded to deliver the program. The expectation is that appropriate programs are provided no matter what needs the kids have. That is why we have an inclusive schooling policy. It doesn't matter where a child is in the Northwest Territories, it is the responsibility of the divisional education council to make sure that they provide appropriate programming for that child; whether that child is in Hay River, Yellowknife, Inuvik or Fort Smith. It makes no difference. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Final supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 51-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre School Program

Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is obvious that the Minister doesn't know the full information about this, because we are not dealing with special needs children who need inclusive programs here. We are talking about children who are far beyond the needs of inclusive schooling. Does the Minister know that these students, eight of them, cannot be absorbed into one school? The benefit of having them in Yellowknife is that they can be chosen to go to any of the seven schools. There is no way one school could absorb all of these students, because they have such high needs. Does the Minister of Education know that? Why does he not know that, if he doesn't know that? Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Minister Dent.

Further Return To Question 51-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre School Program

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The population in that facility today may be totally different in 18 months, so I can't speak for where the kids may be able to go in 18 months. I can tell you, as far as I know, Hay River has more than two schools.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, from the Minister’s statement on tourism in the Northwest Territories, he made reference to the millions of dollars being spent in the Northwest Territories. I wonder if the Minister could tell me how many dollars were kept in the Northwest Territories. They may have spent millions of dollars in the Northwest Territories but in a rough estimate, how many dollars were kept in the Northwest Territories as a result of the figures that he has given us? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The honourable Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment, Mr. Bell.

Return To Question 52-15(4): Tourism Revenue Kept In The NWT

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I'm not sure I'm clear or maybe I just don't understand the question. The money generated, the additional GDP generated in the Northwest Territories, I have given the Member those figures in the statement. Those are some projections for the 2004-05 season. We believe that the vast majority of that money stays in the Northwest Territories. Obviously there is some leakage. I don't think that we are able to quantify what the leakage would be, but it would be no different than any other jurisdiction, I don't believe, in that most of the money probably stays and is spent and circulates in that jurisdiction. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you, Minister Bell. Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Supplementary To Question 52-15(4): Tourism Revenue Kept In The NWT

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Minister has answered the question partially. I will follow up later on with that question privately. The question I guess I want to ask the Minister also, in terms of the creation of the new Department of ITI, and giving industry a new profile within this government and within the industry of tourism, what is the government committing to do to work with the aboriginal governments in terms of giving the profile of industry in the Northwest Territories? What type of commitment has he given the aboriginal governments in the regions to heighten the new profile with ITI?

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Bell.

Further Return To Question 52-15(4): Tourism Revenue Kept In The NWT

Thank you, Madam Speaker. One of the things that we sought out to do when we sat down to do our analysis of roles and responsibilities of the department, vis-a-vis the industry association, was to better understand who is doing what currently, to talk about who should be doing what and to address some gaps.

One of the gaps that we felt in tourism in the Northwest Territories was regional representation; in fact, regional impact on the ground across all regions of the Northwest Territories. We think that there are compelling arguments to be made for tourism money to be spent everywhere and that everybody should have an equal chance to develop their industry. We think that a lot of product development needs to take place in many of our smaller communities. We are proposing a new tourism funding model. We are talking to industry about that; I have met with committee about that as well. One of the pillars is to ensure regional representation on a new destination marketing organization.

We haven't, I guess I would say, crossed the t's and dotted the i's yet, Madam Speaker, but we are working on a model that we think will be as representative as possible of both sectors and regions. I think that is a very positive step. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you, Minister Bell. Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Supplementary To Question 52-15(4): Tourism Revenue Kept In The NWT

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The funding model that the Minister has alluded to, also speaking to the tourism industry I guess my question is not so much the tourism industry but what types of discussions is he having with the aboriginal governments in the regions in terms of this model? It may have some consequences to the land claim settlements in some of the regions that have settled the comprehensive land claims. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Bell.

Further Return To Question 52-15(4): Tourism Revenue Kept In The NWT

Thank you, Madam Speaker. We believe it is an enhancement of the current model and will allow for additional funding to flow into regions, but we talked about working with our tourism partners, by sector, and with regional and community organizations in order to make sure that tourism money is able to best hit the ground. Obviously, we will be talking with aboriginal governments and the relevant organizations in the regions to talk about how we can best achieve that. So going forward as we sit down with committee and industry and have a better handle on what this model will look like, we will be meeting and discussing this with all the relevant stakeholders and regional organizations. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you, Minister Bell. Final supplementary, Mr. Bell.

Supplementary To Question 52-15(4): Tourism Revenue Kept In The NWT

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, the point I would like to ask questions on is to the input from the regional organizations, more importantly the regional governments in the Sahtu, or the aboriginal governments that have a high stake in seeing tourism flow into our region. What can the Minister commit to in the next couple of months in terms of ensuring that the aboriginal governments will be part of this model that could used in the Northwest Territories? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Bell.

Further Return To Question 52-15(4): Tourism Revenue Kept In The NWT

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I can give the Member my assurance that this will be absolutely an inclusive model that people right across the Northwest Territories will be able to take advantage of. The tourism sector will be broadly represented. All communities and regions will have representation in the new model. In terms of new money, we are talking about going forward with the business planning process and will handle that in due course with communities to talk about what will be appropriate. Obviously there are some decisions to be made as a government and as a Cabinet. In the coming months, as we sit down to do our business planning and it gets underway with committees in earnest in September, we will have a lot more discussion on how we should approach this. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My questions this afternoon are for the Minister of Health and Social Services on the issue of the removal of the TTC facility for behaviourally disturbed youngsters to Hay River. Madam Speaker, as my colleagues have already indicated and we’ve done so over the last few days here, the increasing information and substantiation that we are getting for the consequences that there will be for the children, for their families and for a wider range of services and frontline social agencies here in the city. There are at least four or five that have been brought to my attention that will be directly impacted or involved in this. It takes a community to raise a child and that’s what this centre has been trying to build for the last 10 years, a community of service for these children. Understanding that this centre is one of the treatment success stories for children in the Northwest Territories, why does the Minister insist on going ahead with what will surely amount to a very serious erosion to a very successfully built up part of our infrastructure for children? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Thank you, Mr. Braden. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Return To Question 53-15(4): Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, Bosco Homes provides a very high level of program service for children in Fort Smith and in TTC. As I have indicated repeatedly over the sitting of this Assembly, the decision has been made to relocate the program. The determination is that the program can be transferred and can operate without any erosion. The service will still be there. It’s a territorial program open to all the children in the Northwest Territories. It will continue to provide the service, educationally and socially, that it currently does provide right now. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 53-15(4): Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Madam Speaker, we really are at a standoff at this point. We must come back to the whole premise of when a major change is made to a piece of social delivery or piece of social delivery infrastructure, that there are significant consequences. The Minister will not accept this, but we are seeing and hearing an overwhelming body of information and very sincere expressions from professionals about what this will cause. Madam Speaker, our point to the Minister has been to show us the plan, to show that the department understands and is knowledgeable about the consequences. We have not seen that. When is the Minister going to put that in front of Members and in front of the community, so we can all see that his claims are indeed going to be substantiated? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 53-15(4): Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I am acutely aware that any change in service delivery that affects communities has impact, especially in the involved communities. This program is going to continue to be delivered by Bosco Homes. They are going to continue to provide the high level of service that they have provided in Fort Smith all these years. The Premier stood up in the House yesterday and indicated that by the end of this day we will have packages for the Members that will lay out the documentation that got us to this point and that will be ready as promised. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 53-15(4): Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Madam Speaker, this is not good government.

---Applause

Bad.

We have established a convention and a belief as part of the process of consensus that we will work with each other on significant changes like this. I will say it again and again and again, we were denied the access, involvement and input to this kind of process in this decision. It was, indeed, something that was out there as a very viable idea. We came back into this House just last week and we find out that this is a done deal. This is where this government has let us down and it’s letting this community down. The government must rescind its desire or its program to move this facility until the community is convinced that the consequences can be managed. Will the Minister do so? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 53-15(4): Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I can appreciate the Member of Yellowknife Great Slave’s concerns, very specific and germane to his constituency. However, as a Member of this government and as a Cabinet Minister, we have a responsibility to think territorial-wide and to take careful, measured decisions that we think will positively benefit all of the residents, including the children. We have done that in this case. We have given a clear signal of what we intend to do. We have indicated that there will be a period of time to transition this with renovations and such over the next 18 months. We will be coming forward in the business plans with more specifics. We will follow through on that to go through the process. From a territorial-wide perspective, it’s our opinion that this is a good decision, a very viable decision, a program that can be adequately and well run in Hay River by the current contractor who has a long track record of providing a high level of service. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Final supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 53-15(4): Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Can the Minister advise the House, Madam Speaker, of the process and arrangements for ascertaining how that contractor will be selected and, Madam Speaker, how the other significant supports that will be required from the community such as the involvement of the local school authority, the local medical authority, will be built into this continuum of care that a facility like this needs? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 53-15(4): Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, one must be clear that Hay River is one of the largest communities outside of Yellowknife and it has a very high level of educational facilities. It has a very high level of health care services. It’s about a half-hour or 40 minutes across the lake to Yellowknife to access specialist services that may be here at Stanton. Very clearly, we will be working with the involved agencies to make sure that the transition is a smooth one.

I want to point out, once again, that Hay River has a history or providing service to children that goes back many, many years, far longer than 10. I have been involved now with Health and Social Services in this capacity, as well as a former employee, and that goes back to the ‘70s. I know that back then, Hay River at that time provided a high level of service to children. In this case, they will continue to carry on that fine tradition, I am sure. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. At this time, I would like to use my prerogative as chair and the Speaker to recognize in the gallery the presence of one of our Member’s mothers from Tulita, Laura Lennie. Also with Mr. Yakeleya is his partner, Cheryl. Welcome to the gallery.

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Thank you, Madam Speaker. The more I learn about this situation about the proposal to move the TTC out of Yellowknife, the more concerned and alarmed I am that due diligence was not done and consultation was not done. Just as recently as today, I found out that on the educational side, for the needs of the clients at the TTC, there was no consultation with Education. ECE had really no knowledge that this was going to happen when the Cabinet Minister was sitting in a meeting making a decision on this back in March. His department had no idea of it. I would like to know how that happens. It shouldn’t happen.

The Minister has some explaining to do. The first question I have is why has it taken him almost a week to put together this mysterious and elusive business plan or consultation or review or anything that was done by his department? Why do we have to sit over here for almost a week waiting for some answers? I would like the Minister to answer that question. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Return To Question 54-15(4): Consultation Process For Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, earlier my colleague from Kam Lake made some unfortunate comments where he spoke in an absolute way about the fact that Health and Social Services obviously didn’t care about children. I just want to point out for the record that there are over 1,200 employees who work for Health and Social Services plus many contractual employees through NGOs and other service agencies, the majority of whom deal with children on a daily basis. They have devoted their lives to working with children and are very caring and committed people. It’s an unfortunate characterization that I want to point out is not the case.

With regard to the information, it’s coming as promised. I have given the information that you will see will hopefully be corroborated to your satisfaction in the documents that lay out the process. There is no four-inch stack of paper. You have asked for a chronology and some background information. That will be provided today as promised.

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 54-15(4): Consultation Process For Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre