Debates of October 12, 2005 (day 8)

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. My question today is for the Minister of Justice with respect to my Member’s statement on search and rescue efforts throughout the summer in Nahendeh, and search and rescue in general. We pretty well had to reinvent the wheel when it came to organizing search and rescue efforts this summer, Mr. Minister. Is the Minister aware of any protocols governing search and rescue efforts in the NWT? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Let me start by offering my condolences to the Hardisty and Horesay families. I know that this has been a very difficult time for the community. I’d also say that we do appreciate the efforts of the LKFN and the entire community in the search effort. Public concern was raised about how it was conducted and, as the Member knows, there’s now a full review being conducted of that work to make sure that it was done properly. If not, recommendations will flow from that that would speak to the protocols, but it’s too early for me to know exactly what the outcomes will be, but I do anticipate getting that in early November, I believe. Certainly that will be shared with the families. As well, it was a public complaint so there will be an accounting of this, and I would like to sit down and better work through and understand these protocols for search and rescue, because I think we can all see how vital it is to us to have these protocols firmly established, especially when we’re dealing with our smaller and more remote communities. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Supplementary To Question 95-15(4): Search And Rescue Protocols In The NWT

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. What had to happen this summer is that we actually had to get political and force the authorities to bring in cadaver dogs, get search and rescue people out there, and one of the failures was that we were unable to activate the Canadian Rangers, Mr. Speaker. Perhaps the Minister can tell this House what procedure is used to activate the Canadian Rangers to help us in our search and rescue efforts. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 95-15(4): Search And Rescue Protocols In The NWT

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’ll admit that I don’t know exactly when the RCMP make the determination or for which cases they make the determination to call in the services of the Rangers. I’ll endeavour to find out, and I can report back to the Member. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Supplementary To Question 95-15(4): Search And Rescue Protocols In The NWT

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Do we have an established protocol in our government with respect to search and rescue, if the Minister can answer that question, Mr. Speaker?

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 95-15(4): Search And Rescue Protocols In The NWT

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I know that the RCMP have protocols. I know that the Municipal and Community Affairs department does have some disaster assistance. How those roles dovetail I’m not exactly clear, but I will get back to the Member and report back. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Final supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Supplementary To Question 95-15(4): Search And Rescue Protocols In The NWT

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. So I take it from this discussion that the government will be looking at a comprehensive search and rescue protocol and approach for all regions. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 95-15(4): Search And Rescue Protocols In The NWT

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Well, we already have the RCMP that provide that service, and I think the first thing for me to do is to determine exactly what the protocols are that are currently in existence, and find out if they’re meeting the needs of our communities. I will speak to the RCMP, report back to the Member, and then I think we can have a discussion around whether or not those are adequate. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The issue that I would like to raise is directed at the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment as the Member overseeing the Income Support Program, and it relates to the statement I made earlier. With the federal government’s announcement that it intends to flow some fuel or energy rebates to low income families and seniors, we’re told, Mr. Speaker, that $125 will go to individual seniors who qualify for the guaranteed income supplement and $250 will go to seniors who live together as couples. The thing I want to ask about is the money the federal government plans to flow through its $250 that would arrive in January 2006 to families receiving the National Child Benefit Tax Supplement. The federal government would use this as a vehicle to distribute money to people who qualify for the NCBS. So $250 in January sounds pretty good.

However, the issue, Mr. Speaker, and it’s been a long-running issue in this Assembly, is that our government claws back the National Child Benefit from families who are on our income support system. We already do this with land claim benefit payments. The question I have to ask, Mr. Speaker, is if the federal government is going to use the NCBS system as a way to get much needed fuel rebate money to these Canadians, does that mean that our government is going to claw back this much needed rebate money in January from the IS clients that we administer? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. The honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 96-15(4): GNWT Treatment Of Federal Energy Rebate

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, if somebody is on the Income Support Program, the Income Support Program would likely be paying their entire fuel bill. So the cost of fuel would not be something they would be impacted by necessarily. Therefore, this money, like all other income, would be considered as income when people come to the income support office and it would be part of what they bring to the table when calculating what they would qualify for in support for the next month. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 96-15(4): GNWT Treatment Of Federal Energy Rebate

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So the answer is yes, Mr. Speaker. Does the federal government put any conditions on territories or provinces such as ours that have this clawback policy that would ensure that this money, which is intended for all Canadians -- it’s something that all Canadians put into and the federal government is putting back -- cannot be clawed back?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 96-15(4): GNWT Treatment Of Federal Energy Rebate

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am not aware of the details of the federal heating rebate. I think we will become more clear of what the details are in the not-too-distant future. In terms of something like the National Child Benefit, the federal government, the provinces and territories worked together when that was being devised and came up with an agreement that no person would be worse off after the NCB came into effect. So we made sure that our programs were not reduced, because the National Child Benefit was intended to improve the situation of people who were working, or those known as the working poor. That is where the focus of that program was.

I am not sure what the focus is going to be on the federal heating rebate. We haven’t seen the legislation yet. We have just heard the public announcements. Based on what we’ve seen so far, it would appear that this money would be counted as income in the hands of somebody who comes to us for support and we would include that amount as part of what they bring to the table when calculating what they would qualify for in subsequent months.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 96-15(4): GNWT Treatment Of Federal Energy Rebate

Mr. Speaker, the Minister in his previous answer indicated that if a family is on income support, we pick up the fuel bill for them. That’s right and a part of the program that I very much value. I can’t agree with the Minister when he suggested there is no other impact on those families. What about all the other things that they have to pay for which are going to be as a result of the higher costs of fuel across the board in our society? We talked about airlines. We know the taxi fares are going up. Canada Post, Mr. Speaker, already has a freight surcharge on parcels. I have to go back to the intent of the federal government and the impact that all Canadians and every household is feeling because of higher fuel costs. Where is the heart of this government? It’s mighty cold in downtown Yellowknife in January and $200 is going to make a difference to those families. Why won’t our government allow that money to go directly to those families?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 96-15(4): GNWT Treatment Of Federal Energy Rebate

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Our program is designed to support those people who need support the most. For instance, the Income Support Program is one that reflects what actual costs are. So if somebody needs $1,000 this month for rent, that amount is paid. If the family the next month needs $1,500 for rent, that amount is paid. We don’t make them try to get by with less rent. We actually cover the full costs for utilities and housing. The costs of food, the food basket, are adjusted on an annual basis, at least, in order to reflect any increased costs there. So the program is designed to accommodate the actual costs that people are running into. People come to Education, Culture and Employment and say here is what I have in terms of resources, here is what I need in order to get through the next month and that’s how we work to make sure people can survive. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Final supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 96-15(4): GNWT Treatment Of Federal Energy Rebate

That’s all true, but, Mr. Speaker, by that same token, this program keeps a lid on all those families. It does not give them an extra margin that they could use, such as this program to get a bit ahead to make a difference in their life. It’s been argued that while the program does sustain families, it in fact imposes poverty.

Mr. Speaker, this question is going to stay on our agenda. I would like the Minister to provide some information. I am wondering if he could provide me today or in the near future how many income support clients would get their energy cost benefit clawed back and how much money this would total. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 96-15(4): GNWT Treatment Of Federal Energy Rebate

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will endeavour to find that information, but I asked that very question of the department and have been told that there is no way they have of tracking it because it depends on who comes to the table and the resources they bring each month. So it’s very difficult for us to put it together as to who might qualify for this.

I will challenge the department to come up with at least a ballpark figure and we will endeavour to share that with Members. The Member has raised an interesting issue and that is to whether or not the program right now allows people to collect savings for moving forward and developing that independence we want to see. I think that’s a really important issue that we need to take a look at as we go through the redesign of the program. That is something I am undertaking over the course of this winter with external stakeholders and the Standing Committee on Social Programs. So we are going to take a look at some of those issues, but it will not happen quickly enough for a response for this heating program we are talking about right now. We were hoping by next spring to be able to talk about a redesigned program that I am hoping will have that sort of flexibility built in.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise on the heels of my Member’s statement given earlier today. I asked the Finance Minister, Minister Roland, last year what this government is doing to monitor energy consumption, referring to both power, fuel and oil with respect to GNWT assets. He replied that the government, through budgeting exercises, looked at the consumption of our resources, whether it be heating oil, electrical, water and sewer targeted areas where the government thinks it could be saving. Does the Minister of FMB have any numbers indicating the savings that the government has achieved through this budget exercise, or is it further looking forward to targets in the near future that can be reported or tabled in this House? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Minister of Finance, Mr. Roland.

Return To Question 97-15(4): Targets For Achieving Energy Savings

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as we look at our budgeting exercise when departments come forward with requests for the amount of money they feel they will need to operate their programs and services, we look at issues of forced growth. We also look at the overall budget picture. We allow some of the requests to come forward and some we send back to say they have to look at it again to live within the fiscal environment we operate in. That’s one of the ways we do it. We specifically don't, as a budgeting exercise, require them to show us a savings, whether it’s Municipal and Community Affairs for their Water Treatment Program or the Housing Corporation for its utility costs. We haven’t asked them for that specific information. We do request that type of information when they come in for specific increases; for example, to offset the increased cost of fuel in communities. That’s when we asked them to provide some background information.

What we have been doing in light of the environment we find ourselves in now, especially since the summer with the rapid increase of fuel costs across the globe, is we’ve, through the Premier’s office, put together a Cabinet committee that looks at the energy situations of all departments and looks at overall government-wide initiatives to see what we can do to mitigate these increased costs that we are now feeling. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 97-15(4): Targets For Achieving Energy Savings

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, Mr. Minister. We’ve all heard the saying many hands make light work. We all know if these many hands turn off those light switches that I talked about or turned off those ignitions to stop making cars idle, we will save a lot of money. So those many hands will be contributing to those lower costs to run these facilities and cars. So my concern last year was what was their policy and action plan. We now find ourselves in peril where fuel prices are skyrocketing. So my question for the Minister is -- and all residents of the Northwest Territories want to know this one -- what directives are you now sending to the departments to adjust to this new energy crisis under this situation in the short term of this winter and the long term to come? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 97-15(4): Targets For Achieving Energy Savings

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I stated as well in a previous response to the Member on this issue, the departments have already undergone some work to look at their own initiatives. One of the things we have done within Cabinet under the direction of the Premier is we started looking at what all departments are doing. We are pooling the resources to see what initiatives are being undertaken.

Some of the things we are already involved with, Mr. Speaker, are the EnerGuide program, furnace and boiler maintenance programs; as well, one of the issues we have been working on is thermal scanning of government buildings. We are going to increase that initiative as well as, when we are in communities, looking at our own buildings, we will make that service available to the public so they can have a look at the efficiency of their buildings.

Another area is through the Power Corporation and the Energy Efficiency Assessment Program. That’s a program that’s been up and running and working to provide services to people across the North. As well, through the Housing Corporation and income support clients, we provide information on how they can serve or better utilize the facilities we have. Yes, we will be dusting off a number of our previous initiatives that we have taken as a government around usage of vehicles and facilities and will be looking at sending new directives out to have our employees operate our facilities and equipment in a more efficient manner. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Time for question period has expired. I will allow the Member to finish his supplementary question. Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 97-15(4): Targets For Achieving Energy Savings

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I formally have to compliment the Minister because there wasn’t any rhetoric in that. That was action I heard. Finally we are getting down to the nitty-gritty. I would like to add one more initiative we are doing.

Mr. Speaker, granted we can’t control the market rates of the fuel out there, but we can do something. Is this Minister going to lead with direction from his position as chair of the FMB and attach a performance appraisal to all deputy ministers under this initiative to show that their management in this situation is attached to their bonuses? Can we expect that type of leadership? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 97-15(4): Targets For Achieving Energy Savings

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I can’t take claim to the performance appraisals of deputy ministers. That falls in the hands of the Premier. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Final supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 97-15(4): Targets For Achieving Energy Savings

All I can say is the Premier will expect that question tomorrow, so that’s his notice on this question.

Mr. Speaker, to ensure maximum conservation on the part of this government, given the new reality, I want to hear what this Minister has to say about mandatory reporting and monitoring of all government agencies, boards and departments. Do we do this? If not, why not? What do we do with this information that we get to ensure we conserve to our maximum ability? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 97-15(4): Targets For Achieving Energy Savings

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If I understood the Member’s question properly, what are we going to do to get the maximum conservation out of our departments and staff? There’s a fair bit of work that’s already been undertaken, as I have said, work that’s been ongoing. Results are coming in, but we are pooling that work right now to make sure that we are aware of what all departments are up to in this area. As we gather this information, we will be better able to direct departments in areas that can see further savings to this government. As a government, we will and continue to work to make sure we are operating in an efficient environment and we will be tightening the strings, as we say, when it comes to the operation of our facilities and vehicles. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Time for question period has expired. Members on both sides of the House, I would like to remind you of the rules around question period. I was a little relaxed today in question period because it’s the first day back. My apologies to one Member who didn’t have time for his question. Only nine Members got to ask questions today in question period. I will be enforcing the rules after this, but I remind Members on both sides of the House to keep your questions and answers short and to the point. Thank you, Members.