Debates of October 14, 2004 (day 20)

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Supplementary To Question 217-15(3): Income Support For Persons With Permanent Disabilities

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m glad to meet with the Minister to discuss some of the clients that have brought this matter to my attention.

Just on another note, Mr. Speaker, with regard to some of the applicant responsibilities in reference to their permanent handicap. In our Income Support program, the disability allowance is classified as an enhanced benefit. Our clients must meet -- and it states very clearly -- all of the following criteria to qualify for this allowance of $300 a month. There are eight bullets in those criteria. In the Alberta program, which is the Assured Income to the Severely Handicapped program, in the applicant’s responsibilities to the eligibility requirements there are only four bullets. Basically, on the disability and enhanced benefit of the Income Support, the first bullet states that the client must have a severe disability that substantially limits their ability to earn a living.

Mr. Speaker, I think that criteria right there speaks for itself. I don’t think that people with severe disabilities or handicaps should have to go through the other six or seven bullets that really don’t have any real significance to the whole program. This government is supposedly trying to create an atmosphere of independent living and sustainability. Maybe the Minister could just elaborate on why there is such a big list of eligibility criteria for persons with severe handicaps. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 217-15(3): Income Support For Persons With Permanent Disabilities

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would be happy to review that listing of criteria and take a look at those bullets and see if they remain appropriate. I think it’s important to remember that our basic Income Support program provides better support to individuals than does the Alberta program. So AISH doesn’t come near what we provide in the basic program, let alone what we offer in the enhanced program. I would be happy, though, to review those criteria. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. One short, final supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Supplementary To Question 217-15(3): Income Support For Persons With Permanent Disabilities

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just on that last point. It’s good that the Minister stated that our program offers a little bit more monetary value to the clients, I guess, but basically there is no assurance that clients are going to receive this disability benefit every month based on the regulations and policies set out in the Income Support program. In the Alberta model, it’s assured income. Regardless of other family members' incomes, it states that if you are severely handicapped…

Do you have a question, Mr. Villeneuve?

...(inaudible)…benefit. I’m just wondering why this government is any different. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 217-15(3): Income Support For Persons With Permanent Disabilities

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I will review the Alberta program and our program and I believe that our program is substantially better, but if it’s found wanting I’ll certainly respond back to the Member and take a look at what we can do to address any inequities. Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, thank you very much. My question is for the Minister of Justice. Given that the total complement of RCMP officers in the NWT was increased in April of this year, and given that the total complement of RCMP officers at the Fort Simpson detachment was decreased at the same time, can the Minister of Justice determine why there has been such a significant relative decrease in the need for police services in the Nahendeh riding? I’ll just rephrase that. Can the Minister of Justice determine why there has been such a significant decrease for the need of police services in the Nahendeh riding while there’s an overall increase in the NWT? Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Minister of Justice, the Honourable Charles Dent.

Return To Question 218-15(3): Reduction Of RCMP Services In Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as the Member is aware, the RCMP determines the need for staffing and where their staff are located. I have discussed the issue with the chief superintendent. He’s assured me that based on the coverage in the Northwest Territories, they have about 177 members in the Northwest Territories, plus support staff; so a total complement of about 200. They’ve taken a look at what the needs are based on crime across the Northwest Territories, and he has assured me that their decisions about where staff are located are based entirely on need and that the Nahendeh region has a substantially lower crime rate than many other regions. Because of that and because of the staffing levels -- they only have the 177 members to work with -- they’ve had to choose where to put them. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Supplementary To Question 218-15(3): Reduction Of RCMP Services In Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Given that the RCMP have determined that the need for police officers in the Nahendeh riding has decreased, and given that the number of police officers working in the NWT has increased, can the Minister determine precisely where in the NWT has there been such a significant increase in the need for police services? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 218-15(3): Reduction Of RCMP Services In Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there has been a real growth, particularly in the southern part of the Northwest Territories, in the drug trade which has caused a need for greater resources in this region. We’ve seen a number of larger drug busts in Hay River, Yellowknife, and along the highway recently. That’s certainly lead to some of the concerns. Further north, in the Delta, because of the oil and gas activity, there’s been an increase, too, in crime. That’s led to some of the changes. The ruling that we could no longer have single-person detachments has also caused us to have to increase staff over the past two years because we could no longer have detachments with just one member or leave detachments with one member when a member went on holidays or had to leave to attend court. What that has caused the RCMP to do is increase staffing in some areas so that they have people available to travel to communities when one of the officers is going to be away. So, for instance, somebody based in Inuvik now goes to Sachs Harbour or Paulatuk when one of the officers there is going to be away on holidays or on training. Before we would have had to remove the other officer that was in Paulatuk because you couldn’t leave one officer alone.

So a lot of the increase has gone to make sure that we can continue with staffing in the smaller communities and to provide increased services to those communities without any staff at all. For instance, there has been a pretty significant increase in the number of visits this year to communities like Sachs Harbour that don’t have resident RCMP at all, because the RCMP has been able to increase their staff in the Inuvik region. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Supplementary To Question 218-15(3): Reduction Of RCMP Services In Nahendeh

Mr. Speaker, thank you very much. I thank the Minister for his response. So far, the only explanation that we have received for reducing the police services in the Fort Simpson detachment is that it was made based on crime statistics and other indicators. Given that this decision will affect the safety and wellbeing of everyone in my riding, can the Minister of Justice determine precisely what factors or indicators were considered in making the decision so that we in the Nahendeh riding can determine what must happen in order to have the position returned to us or even, indeed, maintain our present staffing level? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 218-15(3): Reduction Of RCMP Services In Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would argue that this is a good thing. I don’t think that Mr. Menicoche would want to see the statistics change so that his region needed another RCMP officer. What I have heard from the RCMP is that based on what they see in the Nahendeh region, there is less need for policing than there is in other regions. That, Mr. Speaker, is good news. It means that there is not as high a crime rate there. In terms of the other factors, I am not sure what other factors they may have used. I can certainly ask the RCMP to outline those to me and I will forward that on to Mr. Menicoche as soon as I have that information. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Your final supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Supplementary To Question 218-15(3): Reduction Of RCMP Services In Nahendeh

Mr. Speaker, two weeks ago we had a public meeting with the RCMP. One of the officers did indicate that they hate to be proved wrong or proved right. I, too, hate to risk the lives or risk a major incident that will threaten the safety and wellbeing of our constituents that they were wrong in doing this. I believe it was a wrong decision, I maintain that, just for the mere fact that some of the changes in the community affect the outlying smaller communities like Wrigley, Jean Marie and Nahanni Butte. One of them was the government liberalizing the alcohol rationing system in Fort Simpson. People are accessing more booze, and they are bringing it to the communities and in Fort Simpson itself. As well, of course, increased development that is already happening; there are drifters in the community disrupting the balance that is there right now. I would just like to ask, will the government and the Minister indicate our displeasure and lobby for us to maintain our existing staffing levels in that Fort Simpson RCMP detachment? Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 218-15(3): Reduction Of RCMP Services In Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the RCMP review their staffing needs across the Northwest Territories on a regular basis. About three or four years ago, they did a study that showed that across the Northwest Territories they needed an extra 27 members. At this point, this government has not come up yet with enough money to fill those 27 positions. I will certainly be working with my colleagues to try and finish that up in the next budget so that we can achieve that. I would expect that shortly after we have done that, since it has been a number of years, that the RCMP will again embark on a study or review of what their needs are across the Territories. Certainly, with the filing of the pipeline application, I expect that they will have some concerns about policing along the route of the pipeline. I would expect that they will then be coming forward to this government with a request to deal with what may be a shortage of personnel at that time. At that point, it will be up to us to try and respond. That is the process. We will continue to work with them to try and make sure that the public safety needs across the North are adequately met. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions are for the Minister of Justice. I don’t remember exactly when it was, but in this House, the issue has already been raised with respect to the court circuit schedule to the communities, whereby a judge and court party goes into the communities and hears the cases that are before the courts there. Not so long ago, this schedule and services were seriously reduced. The number of days in the community and the frequency of visits to the communities were reduced. I would like to know if the Minister has been tracking this, following this, finding out information like how many cases are having to be put over to the next time the court party is back. I still think it is a problem. I would like to know if he is aware of that problem. Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Minister of Justice, the Honourable Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 219-15(3): Community Court Circuit Schedule Reduction

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yes, I was aware of the concern. It was addressed to the House earlier. I met with the chief judge to discuss a number of issues. This was one of the issues that we discussed. The chief judge assured me that this change would not impact on the delivery of justice and that the court circuit would be adequate. I know that it is an issue that is watched regularly. I have recently, within the last few weeks, been in receipt of e-mails discussing the numbers of cases in different communities. In fact, the suggestion is that this has not caused a problem. So it is being tracked. It is being watched. Yes, I am kept up to date on that watch. It does not, at this point, appear to have caused any problems in the delivery of justice. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 219-15(3): Community Court Circuit Schedule Reduction

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, sometimes there is a delay or an interval of up to six weeks or longer in some communities between the time that a person could theoretically be charged with an offence and when they would have a chance to have a preliminary examination of that charge in the courts. Mr. Speaker, the Minister himself referred to the increase in things such as drug busts, activity in drug trade, certainly very publicized situations with vandalism in some of the communities like Fort Smith and other places. It would seem that, in fact, the number of cases coming before the courts would be more. We have heard from Mr. Menicoche today that there is a court worker issue, as well, to prepare for these cases to be heard. I do not believe that it is sufficient. The new chief justice is the one who put this schedule into place. The Minister says he is satisfied, but I am not satisfied. I would like to have evidence of the number of cases that are being put over because of this lack of resources being dedicated to our court services. I would like to have that information presented here in the House. Is the Minister prepared to do that?

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 219-15(3): Community Court Circuit Schedule Reduction

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would be happy to contact the courts and see what sorts of information we can put together. I can’t promise it for tomorrow, but I could let the Member know within the next 24 hours how long it will take us to put the information together that we can get. I would be pleased to present that information.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question today is to the Honourable Mr. Charles Dent, the Minister of Justice. In small communities, we have court workers and interpreters. Sometimes these probation officers are used as interpreters at court proceedings. I would like to ask the Minister where are the procedures in terms of allowing these probation workers, court workers to assist clients that have to go to court who have to use an aboriginal language as a means to participate in court proceedings for translating services? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The Minister of Justice, Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 220-15(3): Procedures for Accessing Court Translation Services

Mr. Speaker, I apologize if I am not answering the right question. I was having difficulty hearing the Member in his question. I believe it’s important to note that everybody is entitled to have a case heard in court in their language and if they need to have an interpreter, one must be provided by the courts. So the judge is the one who has to be satisfied that the quality of the interpretation is good, and it’s up to the person who needs interpreting to make sure that that need is communicated to the court. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Supplementary To Question 220-15(3): Procedures for Accessing Court Translation Services

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The honourable Minister answered part of the question. I would like to ask the Minister also is there any specific policies within the Department of Justice that allows a probation officer, in case some of their communities don’t have court workers or trained interpreters in the legal system, in the region to assist clients in the court setting to help them in the proceedings? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 220-15(3): Procedures for Accessing Court Translation Services

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have to honestly say I don’t know whether that’s possible. It would seem a reasonable approach if that person was available and if they could provide the service to the courts, but they may have other job-related duties. I’ll have to look into that and get back to the Member. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Supplementary To Question 220-15(3): Procedures for Accessing Court Translation Services

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you, Mr. Minister. In some cases because of the technicalities of the legal translation into Slavey languages it’s really important that we have good trained interpreters or translators to do the work on behalf of our people. I’d like to ask the Minister if he would commit to looking into the use of probation officers who work in the field who could help clients in court proceedings where sometimes we don’t have any services in the small communities? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 220-15(3): Procedures for Accessing Court Translation Services

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I said in my previous answer, I’ll look into that and I will get back to the Member on the issue.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Final supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Supplementary To Question 220-15(3): Procedures for Accessing Court Translation Services

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I also would like to ask the Minister of Justice if he would consider looking at alternatives for the communities where sometimes it is not possible to have, in terms of the costing and in terms of the travel, different alternatives to having translation provided in our communities and that he would look at having that done in the communities where a little bit of training could take place for our local interpreters to take and train just in case things don’t work out with the workers that come into our communities to do court proceedings? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 220-15(3): Procedures for Accessing Court Translation Services

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, perhaps I could talk to the Minister of Education about this.

---Laughter

The Department of Justice used to offer a Legal Interpreters Program. In 1995 the program was ended and Aurora College took over offering the certification program. The program was set at one year and part of it included legal interpretation and health interpretation to help make sure that interpreters and translators could deal with the increasingly complex world today that we live in. Unfortunately, over the years the enrollment in that program has declined to such an extent that the college can no longer offer it because they’ve had nobody enrolling in the program. I can certainly discuss with the college perhaps looking at offering the program in one or two regions every once in a while to see whether or not there is some interest, but at this point it’s been a real problem because we haven’t been able to find the interest among people to take the courses in order to offer it. But I will certainly make sure that I have that discussion with the college about rotational delivery. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.